Part 15, Internet Streamers-- NOW IS YOUR DAY!

[joshzz]

You now have the opportunity of a LIFETIME to get a REAL RADIO STATION.....A station that serves a community, one that is licensed and approved the FCC.. A REAL RADIO STATION!!!

In a previous post, I heard all the excuses:
"Josh I live in a major city and my Part 15 can reach a lot of people."

MY ANSWER: No one is going to listen to a station that has the power of a fraction of a watt even if by some miraculous power it could penetrate into a building.

"Josh, the FCC might change the rules and make it more difficult ofr station owners."

MY ANSWER: And the world may end, but who has time to worry .. Now is the time for action. Read my follow-up>>

 

[joshzz]

STATIONS FOR SALE>
Florida, Gulf Coast, AM, 1,000 watts day and night, 5 acres of real estate, tower, mobile home, and all equipment. Market down from $250K to: $79,000.

North Carolina, AM, Christian format, serves 3 communities, 2.5 acres, equipment, building and tower. Marked down from $135,000 to $75K, cash.

Florida, small market AM, fulltime, 2.5 acres of land at tower site, new equipment in good condition, with paved road frontage, seller must sell due to health conditions. ("silent") Was $350K, now $200K.

If that's not your area, PLEASE READ: THERE ARE HUNDREDS MORE ACROSS THE COUNTRY! I don't want excuses why you can't do this or that.. Now is your time! to contact the broker for the above listings. 321.939.3141

Years from now, do you want to look back at the great opportunity you had or are you DO-ER ? ... ready for an exciting career as a REAL RADIO STATION OWNER! Almost any station with a hands-on owner can be successful. josh

 

[Prais]

CAUTION!!!

There are GOOD REASONS WHY these properties are so inexpensive. Don't get suckered into a lemon. Ther are also LOTS better investments than a broken down radio station.

I respectfully DISAGREE with Josh who said,"Almost any station with a hands-on owner can be successful."

There is plenty of crap available, now. HORRIBLE equipment, poor coverage, too much competition, towns with problems, and alot more.

Don't be stupid. If I were you I'd contact JOSH (that big talker) and see if HE would invest with you. He might not be so brave to put in HIS own money.

"A FOOL AND HIS MONEY ARE SOON PARTED."

 

[audioguy]

WPHT is the Big Talker on 1210, and josh is the big talker on Radio-Info!

 

[Prais]

"...Raining on his parade."

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

Josh: several months ago I called the broker about one of those stations. Yes, there are reasons it is that cheap. I'm not sure the new, low price makes it a viable deal.

I have always had small-market mentality. Town is creeping out toward me now, but when I moved here 11 years ago, it was a 10 mile drive to buy a jug of milk and a box of Cheerios. To buy a sport jacket or a refrigerator was a 25 mile drive (one way).

There is a brutal truth that I have been in denial about for some time. There is a new book out called "The Hollowing of America". It is about the changes in rural America. There are a number of burgs and villages that were able to generate enough ad revenue 20 or 40 years ago to keep a simple AM going. When I drive through some of those burgs and villages where I did radio "back in the day" the station can no longer be found, and as my wife and I look around and find the house where we lived, we look at each other shake our heads. We hated the moving, but are thrilled we didn't try to stay in what have now become ghost towns.

There was a conversation here in R-I a few weeks ago about a station in Mississippi now off the air. Someone had tried to steer me to that station before it became a conversation here. This week someone told me who was probably the last guy to try to make it work before it went dark. It is somebody whose career I am following almost like a proud parent. If he couldn't make it work.... forget it!

 

[joshzz]

I knew it was going to happen .. Naysayers... You may not know this but every successful businessman had naysayers all around him. The people that say, "You can't do it"... "Too Risky" ... "You'll go bankrupt" "Are you crazy?"... blah, blah, blah..

I'm not suggesting that every radio station in the country that is for sale is a great buy but most can be... Research and find the station for you... If you're willing to work hard, take care of your baby (your own radio station), be community oriented ( something that none of the big boys wants to be) and pray continually & ask for the Lord's guidance, you will succeed. You may not ever be a multi-millionaire but is that how one defines success? As long as you can put food on the table, pay the bills, help others, keep your focus on the word of God and do what you love most --- isn't that enough for anyone? josh

Your dream can be a reality. josh

 

[joshzz]

Back to my original point. Today ,there is opportunity.. Yes you do need to do research but with all that said and done, just because someone else failed in radio, doesn't mean you will.

Clear Channel, Citadel, Radio One, etc., are in bankruptcy or are nearing bankruptcy because each of these corporations paid far too much for the stations they now own and because generally speaking, they're not deeply involved with the communities, they serve.

You're way ahead of them. You have the opportunity to buy at bargain basement prices and you will be involved in the community. Every business owner in the community that your radio station serves will know you by your first name and you will be a good friend to all. josh

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

... ... and pray continually & ask for the Lord's guidance, you will succeed. You may not ever be a multi-millionaire but is that how one defines success? As long as you can put food on the table, pay the bills, help others, keep your focus on the word of God and do what you love most --- isn't that enough for anyone?

The man who insists he can win the arguement by playing the "faith card" needs to look at this card as I lay it on the table face up:

“ For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?

Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him,

Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish. Luke 14: 28-30

If I have confidence that being part of the community in important to small community radio...(and I do) and...

If I have a religious faith that says one should being doing what fits with your expression of faith...(and I do)...

then when I get to one of these marvelous little opportunities like the two I said I checked out, I probably ought to be a part of a church in my newly adopted home. In both of those markets I would have found myself getting up on Sunday and trucking down the road about 30 miles to find the church I expect. That would be noticed in little towns like those, and would do much to negate all the civic club meetings I might attend and support.

I counted the cost, both in money and in faith-issues and the answer was clear: "This man began to build, and was not able to finish."

Sometimes the "faith card" is not adequate to squelch the conversation.

 

[joshzz]

My friends, there will always the voice that says, "You can't make it", "It's just a dream, can't happen" and so on and so forth, but everyone that dreams hears that voice. It's the man or woman that stands perseveres that wins the prize.

Every one of these people that became successful ignored the naysayers.

http://www.forbes.com/2007/06/22/billionaires-gates-winfrey-biz-cz_ts_0626rags2riches.html

 

[oaktree]

Josh,

I know how well meaning your are and passionate about this. I commend you. Let me ask you a few questions that a specific to an answer; not a "theory", a dream, or an evasion. Honest answer, not based on dreaming.

1. First, would you buy any of the examples give (low power, graveyard AM stations)? Why?
2. Do you have a satisfactory business plan in writing that demonstrate your ability to successfully operate a radio station?
3. Have you ever owned or worked for a radio station? Where? Doing what?
4. Have you ever "sold" what makes radio work -- advertising? (Formats are a dime a dozen and not the reason for success.)
5. What kind of research have you done on these stations and what proof do you have of their "potential."
6. What kind of due diligence have you done to see the "proven" track record of these stations?

Now, with the economy as it is, the areas (not markets) you are describing, the facilities these are (that cost money to maintain, pay taxes on, to hire people, to promote, to earn the trust of a community and to convince what advertising "may" or, quite probably, "won't be" available -- how do you think you are set to do this? I'm betting you aren't -- because, low price doesn't mean "good deal" -- and you probably don't have the money to do it. Understandable. Now, if you said, "These facilities will guarantee billing of $250,000 a year, with an operating budget of $175,000 of year and a 36% profit -- you'd do fine.

Anything below that, you're dreaming. And as an owner, how much do you think you're worth, Josh? A thousand a month? (Not enough to live.) $2000 a month? (barely livable.) $3k? $5k? more? How much do YOU want to make? And with all the fees, license, music licensing, equipment costs, etc. -- you just don't "buy" a station. You have to have enough money to "operate" -- and that means even for $75,000 -- that's a bank note, if you can get one, of $2,000 a month over 5 years, (with lots of interest.)

Owners don't "give away" radio stations. That's why they have a low cost. If they were successful and profitable, they would sell for a lot more -- and as many have said here in the past to you, "It's a BUSINESS," and the cheaper they are, the more difficult -- and professional -- that business is.

It's AM, Josh. The future is not good for AM, even in small burgs. There are too many options today.

Just because someone can buy a "dog" doesn't mean it will "bark." Just sayin'.

But first, form a small (very small) group of investors, Josh, and surround yourself with true radio business people -- not fans or wannabees -- who know how to make this kind of transaction work.

Or else, you'll be the next "operator" turning off a radio station and hoping that someone will buy it -- at any price.

This isn't Part 15 radio. This is real business.

Good luck.

 

[joshzz]

Oakradio,

Unfortunately, I don't have time to cover every point that you disagree with. Honestly I don't have time to go back and forth and challenge every statement you made, then have you come back and challenge me again.... it would be endless and silly....
There is great opportunity in radio and AM can succeed. In many markets such as Reading, PA, an AM is the leader or close to being the leader. Two of my friends own a very successful small AM station (one has just secured a second AM). It would be again silly for us to argue on this: One station fails, so all AMs must fail or vice versa .. every station is different.

AM can not only survive in small markets but it can thrive and be even more successful than in some big markets as you have limited competition.

This is a great opportunity for the one that loves radio and has always dreamed of owning a radio station.. AM Radio like America will Survive .. btw I do own a radio station.

 

[LibertyNT]

Now Josh before i go against what you have said.
I fully commend you wanting to let people know about stations for sale.
Maybe someone someday will buy them.
But even with the low cost how many Part 15 or internet stream
operators do you know can actually afford a full power station?

Part 15 is simply a Hobby. But can be a business. And i would Think most of us are happy with that. I am anyway.
Now to crunch

This quote here is what kicked me.

No one is going to listen to a station that has the power of a fraction of a watt even if by some miraculous power it could penetrate into a building.

That statement is simply not True. My Part 15 FM covers 80 houses and actually has excellent building Penetration. Part 15 AM stations penetrate buildings a lot better than that.
There are some AM's that go miles and miles.
There are Part 15 stations that are extremely involved in their communities and are listened to by a good chunk of the town. I doubt any listener would even know a Part 15 station if they heard one, unless they were told.

 

[oaktree]

Josh,

I, too, am an owner and you don't understand the business of radio.

You need to take time to answer those questions ... if not here, at least to yourself. Honestly. Cheerleading is not what makes radio successful, let alone work. I study this stuff for a living, Josh -- and in the top 110 markets, you can name on 1 hand the number of AM stations that make ratings in the top 5 stations, let alone a profit. AM is not where "it's at." Be it Christian radio, be it commercial, be it community, be it Part 15. Honest.

Some would be a lot meaner to you about being "clueless" than I was, in trying to show you. If you own a "station," I am sure it is not a commercial one, dependent on making money to support a staff, nor making a profit and paying the bills.

You're pretty defensive there, my friend.

Again, as any businessperson will tell you -- even those with successful non-coms -- you have to take time to answer those questions or otherwise, Josh, what, then, is stopping YOU from buying these dogs?

Because, at the root of all evil, I seriously doubt if you have the money, let alone not being to honestly answer the questions for yourself.

And the name is oaktree.

You can reach me in a PM if you'd like to rant privately with me. I'd be glad to listen. I could give you some good advice. I've truly been there, done that and quite successfully in several small and medium markets. Owning a station is the easy part, Josh. Operating one to success is the goal. These stations are all dogs that you've mentioned and not "hobby properties" for first timers. I assure you. A newcomer will never survive in these burgs. It's business, Josh.

And Josh, more and more people today, especially those with money to spend, don't "need" radio today. They needed HDTV because without it, they wouldn't get TV off the air anymore, so, they had to buy new sets. Note that they don't "have" to buy HD Radio ... and not many do. Why? Because radio wasn't taken away from them like television was -- and because AM radio is quite irrelevant in the general scheme of things.

It's no wonder you don't want to debate the questions, which you need to take time to do for your own well-being as an "owner" -- or you'll fail miserably. Even for $75,000. And you won't do it because ... I get it. And, again, I understand. You can't and wouldn't be that silly without a solid plan.

And Part 15 "owners" don't spend that kind of money if they have it for low power graveyard "full" radio stations. Period. Debate the issue, Josh, not attack the person trying to help you understand the real world. Just because a no-name broker has a listing doesn't make it a good deal. Radio stations are not sound investments today, in this economy, unless one knows how to do it well.

Thanks.

 

[Prais]

Sherman, set the "Wayback Machine" for 1973. Two 23 year old very blessed radio lovers, in search of their dream.

(OK Mr. Peabody.")

My partner and I bought our first property, an FM. This was when (unlike now) the economy and peoples "respect" for radio was quite strong.

We looked at 37 properties before we found this. The Dundee, IL station we looked at was broadcasting from a kitchen table and the modulation monitor of WVFV was reading WJJD (fm's) signal down the road, rather than it's own. I had a better stereo system than the Woodstock, IL stations equiipment. There were many other laughable "stations for sale." Our broker had a long list of dogs to choose from (much like the list Josh produced) and we traveled the midwest, looking.

My partner was from a very rich family and my dad was also quite wealthy. I knew my partner for 15 years before our business partnership. He knew electronics and was quite "smart." Sales and programmiing was my strong suit. I had expeience in both.

The station we bought was a class A dog with a suburban signal in a city of 6 thousand, 30 miles from the big town, where there was a 50kw flamethrower with big numbers.

Our equipment was worn out and the tower was short. My partner had to get some neighboring stations engineers to help him keep us on.

We were interested in the place because of the previoius owners lack of attenion to this station, and still it was "break even." We bought the place for 100k, 25k down. The station format "tracked lp's" and had very weak "local news" (reading the city paper on the air).

What a great opportunity!!

When we moved there, at age 23, my partner radically changed; he started to "chase skirts" and spend his dads money, rather that be interested in running the radio station. I did 85 percent of the work.

I felt like a "priest" - celibate, but for the sake of radio- as I could not afford to do HIS lifestyle - and kept the place afloat, with 18 hour days 7 days a week. (this was long before suitable automation). We were often concerned about enough business to meet payroll (never missed it, though)

Now the story gets VERY sad.

He married who he was chasing after he got her pregnant, then 6 months later he was killed in a car crash. He never saw his child (in fact twins).

Thankfully, His dad, a VERY experienced businessman, had encouraged us to invest in a "key man" life insurance policy a year earlier. It was the best move we made - because after my partners death, his wife sold her part of (his) station to me - and a year later it was a viable property.

I eventually went on to sell that station for 200k. own 4 other stations, built a few others from the ground up, sold construction permits, and towers with lots of communication antennas.

I have forgivien this partner and not looked back. I never again saw the need for a partner, except my wife of (now) 31 years).

We have many friends in radio, and a GREAT attorney and accountant that came from these opportunities. After successfully seling what I owned, I found a much better business to invest in and at age 60, I'm very satisfied and happy, (mostly retired) pursuing what makkes my wife and I peaceful.

CHEERLEADING about this topic and "cheap properties" is a certain recipe for disaster. The broker may be a "good guy" but HE WANTS TO SELL A PROPERTY. HE is working for the stations PRESENT owner - NOT YOU.

BE CAREFUL. If I knew then what I know now....

I LOVED radio, but being a smart, successful businessman (in ANY business) IS BETTER than being a horny, financially struggling station owner, living on noodles and Spam.

God helps those who help themselves. Oaktree and Liberty are spot on.

 

[joshzz]

Josh,

I study this stuff for a living, Josh -- and in the top 110 markets, you can name on 1 hand the number of AM stations that make ratings in the top 5 stations, let alone a profit. AM is not where "it's at."

As I mentioned earlier, I don't have time to nitpick everything you suggest. There are many AM stations that are doing well in top 110 markets. There are many AM stations in unrated markets billing hundreds of thousands of dollars-- and thriving. I know this for a fact.

You can say what you will but there are many AM stations doing just fine, thank you.

 

[Prais]

Josh said, "I don't have time to nitpick everything you suggest. "

You've made 7 posts to this thread. Sounds like you have plenty of time to me.

O wait, I know, "it's a great opportunity."

 

[gr8oldies]

Very interesting topic everyone. Josh, I appreciate your enthusiasm, as well as the input of current and former owners and Goat Rodeo Cowboy. I am aware of stand alone AMs that work. Locally, a gentleman purchased a daytimer 20 miles from a top 75 market and did classic country, anything from old bluegrass to 80s, Tradio, and other down home programming. He did well enough with local direct advertising to buy two more daytimers in the surrounding area, which he mostly simulcasts (I think he may be able to feed separate spots to them). He even hired a popular morning talent that Clear Channel had let go. Now one of the daytimers has an FM translator that just went on the air. I'm referring to WBZI 1500 in Xenia, OH; WKFI 1090 in Wilmington, OH; and WEDM 1130 in Eaton, OH. (WEDM is the former WCTM, which Stan Coning ran as a Beautiful Music station into his 80s).

I'm also aware of WANO and WFXY in Middlesboro, KY. They are a local success story. The very young previous owner was featured as part of "30 under 30" in radio. He sold them and apparently did well enough to enjoy life a little before he makes his next career move.

Having said that....I'm aware of a few situations with stand alone AMs that are just disasters. One in particular has bankrupted more than one owner. There's a daytimer near Cincinnati that is now silent waiting for something to happen. Alchemy Broadcasting still can't find the financing to close the deal on WCIN in Cincinnati, where they are LMAing their oldies format. I struggled in a losing battle to keep an AM in Springfield, OH afloat, which fortunately I didn't own.

As for me...owning stations was something I always wanted to do, but it never happened for me. Of course, I may have gone bankrupt the first month with the very little business experience I had had. I often wondered if I had taken that route, when the consolodators were coming around with those big, fat checks..let's say I'd be on a beach where it's 80 degrees, not sitting in Ohio.

Today, even assuming I could find financing, I'm not so sure. There certainly are opportunities like I mentioned somewhere, but then again there are situations like a West Virginia station that became somewhat of a joke on the internet, because the trailer and run down van were included, that finally went to a religious group for $60,000. With one of these stations, would it be a matter of making an investment or buying a job? More than likely the big boys, or a new set of medium boys, aren't going to be coming around and buying every tower in sight like in the consolodation feeding frenzy. Even EMF (the K-Love people), gets rid of an AM that comes with an FM as soon as possible. Now, coming with 5 acres of land, assuming it wasn't swampland in Florida, might make it an investment for the land value. Get tired of radio, sell it to a strip mall developer. I don't see how you'd buy a few daytimers or graveyarders and leverage them to buy a medium market cluster of FMs. The last hope for many of these stations is a religious broadcaster picking them up, either for screaming fire and brimstone brokered programming or Catholic radio. Many towns that could have been viable years ago are now bedroom communities to large cities, and the chain restaurants and stores aren't advertising on ex-urban facilities.

I'm thinking my future career lies in helping businesses carve out their own piece of digital real estate with new media. Part of it is not wanting to be tied to one area 365 days a year. As for Part 15ers buying one of these stations, you'd better be prepared to be morning host, sales manager, engineer, janitor, IT professional and general maintenance man. You'll also have to program what will work in that situation, and it may well be Southern Gospel and not the 10,000 unknown songs on your iPod that you assume everyone wants to hear.

And finally, some of those stations in the 70s were real trips. Wasn't looking to buy any then, but looking for my first job. Remember one where they copied songs off Wolfman Jack or AT40, cut the intros off and put them on a reel to get their music.

 

[radiocph]

The last hope for many of these stations is a religious broadcaster picking them up, either for screaming fire and brimstone brokered programming or Catholic radio.

If there are any foreign language speakers in the market, then foreign language programing, even part-time, might also be worth a shot...

You'll also have to program what will work in that situation, and it may well be Southern Gospel and not the 10,000 unknown songs on your iPod that you assume everyone wants to hear.

Indeed. This is a business, not ham radio or Part 15.

 

[joep]

...and in the top 110 markets, you can name on 1 hand the number of AM stations that make ratings in the top 5 stations, let alone a profit. AM is not where "it's at."

Oaktree, I've read your quote above about 10 times to make sure I'm reading correctly.... and I'm baffled each time I read it. If you're using Arbitron markets, and using Arbitron 12+ numbers, your assertion couldn't be further from the truth. You say that you study this for a living, but I'm not sure exactly what it is you do. You certainly don't study radio ratings.

You would need more than one hand to count the number of AM stations that make ratings in the top 5 stations in the top 110 markets. You would need BOTH hands, and while you're at it, you would need to take off your shoes and socks. And I hope you have some friends available that are willing to help, because you'd need a bunch of THEM to remove their socks, too.

In the top 110 Arbitron markets, there are SIXTY-FIVE AM stations that rank in the top 5 of their market in the Arbitron 12+ rankings. That's 62 of the top 110 markets, because 3 of those markets have two stations in the top 5.

Not only that, but in the top 10 markets, there are ELEVEN AM stations that rank in the top 5.

Two of the top 110 markets have both the #1 and #2 slots filled with AM stations.

Not sure where you're getting your data, Oaktree, but it ain't even close to being accurate.

Given compelling and entertaining programming, listeners will switch to the AM dial every time.

The problem with AM radio isn't the modulation mode, OR the age of the technology.