pathetic tampa radio

[smedge2006]

Well, lets see. As I sat in my office Labor Day Weekend 1985 when hurricane elana was blowing in at 4pm, I flipped on the WFLA-AM, the N/T station to find College Football on. Same thing that night as she churned off-shore.

Perhaps you didn't hear the wall-to-wall coverage they did all day Sunday. One of the anchors, interestingly enough, was Chuck Harder. There were other stations that did coverage -- WPLP comes to mind, but they were forced out by flooding for about a day Saturday -- which is when WFLA got the drop on them. Perhaps that was the day 970 began to take over the talk radio crown. Remember too, that WFLA was still forming its news-talk identity in 1985 after years of bouncing like a pinball between Jack Harris in the morning, nighttime talk and sports, and bizarre things in the middays like simulcasting their FM.

So has radio really changed? I would not know a hurricane was 50 miles offshore then - would not know it today

But in between -- specifically, 1988 to 2006, the era of "Our Newsroom Never Closes" -- you definitely would have known, and been informed by hurricane-savvy veterans like Robert Pankau and the late Don Richards.

The talent is better on WFLA today than it was 20 years ago as well. It might not be local, but its better. Yes, they still have issues - but again I believe far too many forget the issues of years ago.

Coming from someone with your background, this is a jaw-dropper. The Tedd Webb- Lassiter - Dick Norman combo seamlessly carried audiences all through the day. I think if WFLA could find their equivalents today, they'd be doing noticeably better than their current shares. It would cost more, though.

Bottom line 1) The talent isn't there to have great local shows in all markets 2) The Management (Programmers) were never good enough to coach and help talent find their full potential at the local market level 3) Agents got involved and feed so much BS to any talent that would listen that talent quit listening to local management anyway.

The talent isn't there to have great local shows in Market 183. It WAS there to have great local shows in Market 21 (Tampa's rank at the time) and if the current corporate entities are dismantled, perhaps it would be again. Just look at all the talent that has earned network or major market rungs following their sojourn in Tampa talk: Lionel, Harrison (Harry Dangler), Jay Marvin, the Fabulous Sports Babe...

But Lassiter was axed because he didn't have very good ratings in his second stint at 970. The station was ranked 18th during afternoon drive in the final ratings book before he was let go. (Technically speaking, his contract wasn't renewed. But the end result is the same

Need some context here. In addition to the "support group" mentality, Lassiter was on after Dr. Laura. I can't imagine his core hearing the harridan and sticking around for him. Not to mention that for half the year, his 5 - 8 p.m. show was sawed off at 6:30 for Devil Rays baseball.

Just for grins I pulled out the numbers from Spring 1990. In the money demo, P25-54, WFLA-AM was 11th overall, mornings, middays and afternoons. They were 14th at night.

Again, some context. When the Spring 1990 book began, WFLA had perhaps the most intense competition in its talk history. THREE other stations were doing general talk formats -- WTKN (the former WPLP), WEND and WSUN. Those three stations took about half the talk share (give or take) between them with WFLA holding the other half. Also, Norman had died and Lassiter had left. Jay Marvin hadn't arrived yet. Rush was three books in (proof that his alleged salvation of AM radio didn't take place instantaneously), and nights were held down by somebody named Joe Flores who hasn't been heard from since. Compare with Spring '89, (Lassiter's last book in his first 970 sojourn) when WFLA was 7th in P25-54 M-F 6 a - 7 p.

The fact that radio IS a business is often ignored.

If anything, what's getting ignored these days is the SHOW part of radio, not the business part. That line about "turning DJs into accountants" from a recent book never rang truer...

Today they are easily Top 5 in 12+ and P25-54.

... and in-format they have LESS competition, not more, both in quantity and quality, than in 1990.

 

[Kabrich]

Oh let’s see… Lionel…(WABC) Lassiter (WLS) Al Gardner (The big station in Charlotte) Freddie Merts (working at a gas station in Detroit) Glen Beck (Taking over the world) Chuck Harder (Owned and broadcasted on a few networks with a poop load of affiliates) Jeff Brooks until his death was on a few hundred stations with his “On The Road” show. Jay Marvin (WLS then Denver) Paul Gonzales (Was on about 200 stations for years)

I am sure there is more. Help me…

And you have just noted why there is no more local radio personalities. People were scrambling for personalities and moving them up, whether they deserved to be or not.

Examine the ratings of those you listed at WLS, WABC etc. They bombed. Much like the rankings in Tampa.

Radio NEVER had the pipeline to fill the need. People were promoted over their market capability and agents made them think they were better than they were, in my opinion. (BTW, I did think Alan Gardner was good in many ways - perhaps not in the role he was given).

You can see the numbers (rankers) listed in from Spring 1990 when there were 50% LESS STATIONS THAN TODAY making the Tampa Book. WFLA could not even hit the Top 10 with 1/2 the number of stations today. You will also see in my post I stated people not currently on the air at WFLA, of which Beck is.

Today they are easily Top 5 in 12+ and P25-54.

Clearly, a better station today with twice the competition.

You are entitled to your opinion. I have mine, but all that really matters is what the audience thought.

 

[Kabrich]

Perhaps you didn't hear the wall-to-wall coverage they did all day Sunday. One of the anchors, interestingly enough, was Chuck Harder. There were other stations that did coverage -- WPLP comes to mind, but they were forced out by flooding for about a day Saturday -- which is when WFLA got the drop on them. Perhaps that was the day 970 began to take over the talk radio crown. Remember too, that WFLA was still forming its news-talk identity in 1985 after years of bouncing like a pinball between Jack Harris in the morning, nighttime talk and sports, and bizarre things in the middays like simulcasting their FM.

Well, Sunday it was over. It was like covering 9/11 on 9/12. You missed it on 9/11, 9/12 didn't matter.

Actually, that was the day that WFLA lost its news crown to Q105. A Survey done on Tuesday Evening, (Monday was Labor Day) showed over 50% of the people in Tampa Bay that got Hurricane Coverage got it from Q105. No other station even had double digits.

Even Randy Michaels admitted that killed their news image for years.

So has radio really changed? I would not know a hurricane was 50 miles offshore then - would not know it today.

But in between -- specifically, 1988 to 2006, the era of "Our Newsroom Never Closes" -- you definitely would have known, and been informed by hurricane-savvy veterans like Robert Pankau and the late Don Richards.

And today, you could not get MJ out of the building during a potential threat, so yes, you would know today. In fact, during Charlie in 2004, Jack Harris was on in the GTE/Verizon bunker back up broadcasting that afternoon as well.

Coming from someone with your background, this is a jaw-dropper. The Tedd Webb- Lassiter - Dick Norman combo seamlessly carried audiences all through the day. I think if WFLA could find their equivalents today, they'd be doing noticeably better than their current shares. It would cost more, though.

Look above, I posted the rankers and your memory needs a refresher.

The talent isn't there to have great local shows in Market 183. It WAS there to have great local shows in Market 21 (Tampa's rank at the time) and if the current corporate entities are dismantled, perhaps it would be again. Just look at all the talent that has earned network or major market rungs following their sojourn in Tampa talk: Lionel, Harrison (Harry Dangler), Jay Marvin, the Fabulous Sports Babe...

As noted above, the audience and the ratings disagree with you. Sports Babe NEVER pulled ratings.

But Lassiter was axed because he didn't have very good ratings in his second stint at 970. The station was ranked 18th during afternoon drive in the final ratings book before he was let go. (Technically speaking, his contract wasn't renewed. But the end result is the same

Need some context here. In addition to the "support group" mentality, Lassiter was on after Dr. Laura. I can't imagine his core hearing the harridan and sticking around for him. Not to mention that for half the year, his 5 - 8 p.m. show was sawed off at 6:30 for Devil Rays baseball.

Dr. Laura had better ratings than Lassiter.

Again, some context. When the Spring 1990 book began, WFLA had perhaps the most intense competition in its talk history. THREE other stations were doing general talk formats -- WTKN (the former WPLP), WEND and WSUN. Those three stations took about half the talk share (give or take) between them with WFLA holding the other half. Also, Norman had died and Lassiter had left. Jay Marvin hadn't arrived yet. Rush was three books in (proof that his alleged salvation of AM radio didn't take place instantaneously), and nights were held down by somebody named Joe Flores who hasn't been heard from since. Compare with Spring '89, (Lassiter's last book in his first 970 sojourn) when WFLA was 7th in P25-54 M-F 6 a - 7 p.

7th place P25-54 when there were 1/2 the number of stations there are today - and they are now consistently Top 5 (and usually higher). Thanks for making my point. We can also see your memory is flawed below.

And just for grins (mods, Arbitron deletes info after 3 years, so 1989 is 19 years old and not subject to Copyright any longer - nor would they even have access to it).


ARBITRENDS Daypart Comparison Report
TAMPA-ST. PETERSBURG-CLEARWATER Metro DEMOGRAPHIC: Persons 25-54
Spring 1989 MARKET POPULATION: 740,600
LISTED BY RANK ON: Mon-Fri 6a- 7p Audience Share ESTIMATE: Audience Share


Mon-Fri
6a- 7p
Station Est Rank
--------------- -----------
WRBQ-FM 16.5 1
WUSA-FM 9.7 2
WQYK-FM 9.5 3
WYNF-FM 7.9 4t
WNLT-FM 7.9 4t

WWRM-FM 7.9 4t
WFLZ-FM 6.1 7
WFLA-AM 5.2 8
WHVE-FM 5.0 9
WKRL-FM 3.9 10

WTMP-AM 1.9 11
WDUV-FM 1.8 12
WRXB-AM 1.4 13
WXCR-FM 1.3 14
WSUN-AM 1.0 15

WRBQ-AM 0.7 16
WHBO-AM 0.6 17t
WDAE-AM 0.6 17t
WQYK-AM 0.6 17t
WGUL-AM 0.4 20

WLVU-FM 0.3 21t
WTKN-AM 0.3 21t
WLFF-AM 0.3 21t
WGUL-FM 0.2 24t
WHLY-FM 0.2 24t

WEND-AM 0.2 24t

And just so we are clear, if you took the 0.2 from WEND, the 0.3 from WTKN and 1.0 from WSUN and added IT ALL to WFLA (which would have NEVER happened), it would have only added 1.5 shares, giving them a 7.7, not enough to get them past 7th place. In fact, last Fall, WWBA had a 1.6 share in that demo - HIGHER THAN ALL 3 OF THE COMPETITORS FROM 1989 - plus WDAE had a 4.0. WFLA has MUCH MORE talk competition NOW than it did then!

You really think that was good radio? WFLA was #1 P25-54 6am-7pm Last Fall!!!! Clearly, they are doing something right now they were not doing then.

I guess we have different standards for success. I prefer to listen to the audience for that direction instead of personal opinions.

 

[smedge2006]

And just so we are clear, if you took the 0.2 from WEND, the 0.3 from WTKN and 1.0 from WSUN and added IT ALL to WFLA (which would have NEVER happened), it would have only added 1.5 shares, giving them a 7.7, not enough to get them past 7th place.

Please note that I was referencing Spring '90 not '89 for WEND, WTKN, WSUN impacting WFLA. WEND and WSUN were just getting started in their talk formats in Spring '89. 620 was a bit stronger a year later and 970 was weaker. But they spoiled their potential by running the same show (Bruce Williams) three or four times in 24 hours, middays, evenings and overnights. Had they built on that with more LOCAL talk content, they might have done better. Still, they didn't do half badly with 970 reeling and 570 still basically comatose after the Susquehanna implosion. With their signal, 620 would have had potential... had not Cox bought 620 and stupidly gone back to country at the end of the spring '90 book (a decision reversed two years later -- but missing a window of opportunity).

Dr. Laura had better ratings than Lassiter.

And Laura fans defected in droves when Lassiter came on? Of course they would. His fans would have been repelled by her, and hers by him.

7th place P25-54 when there were 1/2 the number of stations there are today - and they are now consistently Top 5 (and usually higher).

8th sted 7th? Still pretty good without looking at the rankers I think!

In fact, last Fall, WWBA had a 1.6 share in that demo - HIGHER THAN ALL 3 OF THE COMPETITORS FROM 1989 - plus WDAE had a 4.0.

Does WWBA have a higher share than the combo of all three in Spring '90? That's what I was referencing, not '89. With all due respect, is WDAE really competition to WFLA? Sports radio has evolved into its own universe, the approach is different from the pm drive sports shows on news-talk stations 20 years ago, and the target demo is different. "Beer and babes" is not what a WFLA or a WWBA are about.

 

[Don62]

You really think that was good radio? WFLA was #1 P25-54 6am-7pm Last Fall!!!! Clearly, they are doing something right now they were not doing then.

Any station that puts effort into their programming - ala real radio - instead of pulling every single program M-F except a.m. drive off satellite, is good radio.

WFLA is no better, as a radio station, than a small station in Salina, Kan., or Grand Junction, Colo., which is entirely syndicated, like WFLA. A station that pulls in millions in revenue a year, in a major market, unlike the smaller ones metnioned, has no excuse for not investing in talent.

WFLA takes the easy route, thanks to owners who want to own every potential AM signal in the market, prevent others with any signal strength from competing, and then arrogantly state how they are "the leader." They are the leader only by default, not by some programming genius or "talent."

Right. Just pull everything off national. That's lazy and mediocre radio, especially with the evening host, who can't hold an argument with anyone and doesn't listen to other views.

 

[FiveStar]

The fact that 970 is so high up compared to them says less about its quality than the quality of the competition. An ebbing tide lowered all the boats.

 

[The Beave]

Sounds like Tampa has the same mentality like Fargo, ND -

a radio armpit.. it gets sweaty and stinks.

 

[MsMusicRadio]

In 2004 when 4 hurricanes it Florida and at 3 grazed Tampa Bay, I found that Bay News 9 broadcasting over 94.1 and 104.7 to be far more useful than anything on AM radio. I find it puzzling when stations like WFLA, KDKA in Pittsburgh, and WRVA in Richmond bill themselves as news outlets when finding the news is almost impossible. I get my news from TV and the internet. Other than WCBS and WINS in New York City, I can't think of a successful real news ( not opinion) outlet on AM.

 

[FiveStar]

In 2004 when 4 hurricanes it Florida and at 3 grazed Tampa Bay, I found that Bay News 9 broadcasting over 94.1 and 104.7 to be far more useful than anything on AM radio. I find it puzzling when stations like WFLA, KDKA in Pittsburgh, and WRVA in Richmond bill themselves as news outlets when finding the news is almost impossible. I get my news from TV and the internet. Other than WCBS and WINS in New York City, I can't think of a successful real news ( not opinion) outlet on AM.

News is expensive, both in terms of the hardware and personnel. The bean counters will quickly point out that their ratings have never been higher at the same time they're gutting their news staffs and cutting back on their on air committment. 970 is using their traffic guy to do news on weekends, at the same time he's doing multiple markets for traffic.

Personally, I expect more heads to roll at Clear Channel on August 1st, but I hope I'm wrong.

 

[Don62]

Sounds like Tampa has the same mentality like Fargo, ND -

a radio armpit.. it gets sweaty and stinks.

At least Fargo has local shows... In that sense, the talk station there, the one that hosted Ed Schultz, is far better than WFLA because even though it's a small market, the owners there at least try and do "broadcasting."

And many other smaller markets, i.e. Kansas City, Denver, etc., have mid-morning and p.m. drive local talk shows.
KMBZ, Kansas City, has local mornings, Rush, O'Reilly, p.m. drive, then Levin. They're No. 1 and run circles around their competition, which is entirely syndicated outside of early a.m.

These other "stations" (I don't consider WFLA a "station") don't align their horses so closely with blowhards that everyone thinks the station is a right-wing moiuthpiece, as most listeners likely think of about WFLA which god help them if they air a show that isn't right-wing.

 

[The Beave]

At least Fargo has local shows... In that sense, the talk station there, the one that hosted Ed Schultz, is far better than WFLA because even though it's a small market, the owners there at least try and do "broadcasting."

I agree.. 1 full service talk station here is live from 5am to 7pm... Schultz does his show Both local & national from there, (locally the National show is broadcast here and is on Tape Delay)

We have 3 talk stations here.. the 3rd will come on line next month...With Scott Hennen (Scott has been Sean Hannity Fill-in on a few occasions) A local hosts - Paul Bouge/Shelly Knight, and from 11 - til 5 am syndicated programming, Rush, Levin, Hanity Dr. Laura, Yadda... This will liven up the market somewhat.

The other one is really in need of a major upgrade in on air sound.. Still sounds like a 70's talk station..Imagers/ID's and all.

The music stations: 2 fairly decent country stations, an Active Rocker which isn't all that bad, Alternative station which can't decide it's format from day to day, 1 really decent oldies station, An Adult hits that is competing well with the Mainstream AC. A Mainstream top 40 that wants to be a CHR it needs some help also. and finally, a classic rocker that could use a shot of imaging help and more advertizing and some head to head competition in the market.

The country stations are in a warfare situation on the streets, with debates about "Exclusive" promotion terratories. I would love to see them visit a west coast major market to see how professional it really is. Maybe they could learn a lesson there.

Still the personnel at some of these stations, bash each other on online forums "By Name" and which they haven't realized mentioning someone good or bad is free advertizing for their shows...

It's a shark infested environment that has become a cesspool.

 

[Kabrich]

Please note that I was referencing Spring '90 not '89 for WEND, WTKN, WSUN impacting WFLA. WEND and WSUN were just getting started in their talk formats in Spring '89. 620 was a bit stronger a year later and 970 was weaker. But they spoiled their potential by running the same show (Bruce Williams) three or four times in 24 hours, middays, evenings and overnights. Had they built on that with more LOCAL talk content, they might have done better. Still, they didn't do half badly with 970 reeling and 570 still basically comatose after the Susquehanna implosion. With their signal, 620 would have had potential... had not Cox bought 620 and stupidly gone back to country at the end of the spring '90 book (a decision reversed two years later -- but missing a window of opportunity).

ARBITRENDS Daypart Comparison Report
TAMPA-ST. PETERSBURG-CLEARWATER Metro DEMOGRAPHIC: Persons 25-54
Spring 1990 MARKET POPULATION: 768,700
LISTED BY RANK ON: Mon-Fri 6a- 7p Audience Share ESTIMATE: Audience Share


Mon-Fri
6a- 7p
Station Est Rank
--------------- -----------
WUSA-FM 11.7 1
WYNF-FM 10.5 2
WRBQ-FM 10.3 3
WWRM-FM 9.5 4
WQYK-FM 8.5 5

WFLZ-FM 7.3 6
WYUU-FM 6.7 7
WNLT-FM 5.7 8
WHVE-FM 4.0 9
WXTB-FM 3.8 10

WFLA-AM 2.3 11
WDUV-FM 1.7 12
WTMP-AM 1.6 13
WGUL-FM 0.9 14
WRXB-AM 0.8 15t

WSUN-AM 0.8 15t
WPCV-FM 0.5 17
WDAE-AM 0.4 18
WAMA-AM 0.3 19t
WPAS-AM 0.3 19t

WTKN-AM 0.2 21
WRBQ-AM 0.1 22t
WLVU-FM 0.1 22t


WFLA 11th place with a 2.3 Share. WSUN had a 0.8 share. WTKN had a 0.2 share. WEND had no one listening.

Total Talk Shares a 3.3 which would have been good for SURPRISE, SURPRISE.....11th place - no change in ranking.

You are only digging yourself deeper into a hole with revisionist history.

Again, WFLA was #1 last Fall. WWBA had 60% more than the 3 stations you listed as WFLA competition and WDAE had a 4 share.

I've learned over the years, the public is correct - listen to them and you won't go wrong (isn't that what talk radio is about anyway?). And it's clear that they gave a big thumbs down to the WFLA you said was great and a big thumbs up to the WFLA of today.

 

[FiveStar]

Ah yes, the old Heidi Fleiss defense. In this case, it worked out great after the whole paradigm shifted. When Tampa was a good market it was a lot harder to rise to the top. There were a lot of stations owned by aggressive groups who were willing to spend big money tyring to build a great product. When the quality got watered down, it was a lot easier to get bigger shares. It kinda reminds of the pro wrestlers who used to get a pin by gaining "extra leverage" by putting a leg on the rope, then bragging how smart they are. Or maybe more accurately it's like those Spanish basketball players who won gold medals at the Special Olympics and it turned out they had normal intelligence.

 

[Kabrich]

At least Fargo has local shows... In that sense, the talk station there, the one that hosted Ed Schultz, is far better than WFLA because even though it's a small market, the owners there at least try and do "broadcasting."

Interesting as Fargo's local Talk Station was #5 last Fall Persons 25-54 while WFLA was #1 in Tampa - and Fargo's Local Talk Station had 50% less shares than the #1 station in Fargo. Slice it anyway you want, but WFLA is outperforming them on every metric that means anything.

And many other smaller markets, i.e. Kansas City, Denver, etc., have mid-morning and p.m. drive local talk shows.
KMBZ, Kansas City, has local mornings, Rush, O'Reilly, p.m. drive, then Levin. They're No. 1 and run circles around their competition, which is entirely syndicated outside of early a.m.

So KMBZ has local mornings, Rush & O'Reilly instead of Rush and Beck, PM drive and then Levin instead of Hannity? Interesting, sounds the same as WFLA, except that WFLA was #1 P25-54 last Fall while KMBZ was #11, not #1 as you believe.

I love all the numbers being thrown around here that have no basis in reality. If you want to win with numbers, at least have them to back up your argument.

These other "stations" (I don't consider WFLA a "station") don't align their horses so closely with blowhards that everyone thinks the station is a right-wing moiuthpiece, as most listeners likely think of about WFLA which god help them if they air a show that isn't right-wing.

Well, lets see, 11th place KMBZ has Rush and O'Reilly, but they aren't right-wing mouthpieces......your comments get more comical by the minute.

 

[Kabrich]

Ah yes, the old Heidi Fleiss defense. In this case, it worked out great after the whole paradigm shifted. When Tampa was a good market it was a lot harder to rise to the top. There were a lot of stations owned by aggressive groups who were willing to spend big money tyring to build a great product. When the quality got watered down, it was a lot easier to get bigger shares. It kinda reminds of the pro wrestlers who used to get a pin by gaining "extra leverage" by putting a leg on the rope, then bragging how smart they are. Or maybe more accurately it's like those Spanish basketball players who won gold medals at the Special Olympics and it turned out they had normal intelligence.

You clearly are not a math major.

It's easier to pull LARGER SHARES with FEWER COMPETITORS.

WFLA is pulling LARGER SHARES with TWICE THE COMPETITORS.

 

[Kabrich]

In 2004 when 4 hurricanes it Florida and at 3 grazed Tampa Bay, I found that Bay News 9 broadcasting over 94.1 and 104.7 to be far more useful than anything on AM radio.

I could not agree with you more.

When Charlie hit Punta Gorda in 2004, after the cellphone backup batteries died on the Cellphone Towers, WFLA could not get stories out of Punta Gorda after about 9pm that Friday Night. They were being forced to bring the stories back to the Gandy Blvd Studios. I found this so ridiculous that I drove over and gave them my Sat Phone to use as a matter of Public Interest and Safety. They agreed to pay for the airtime. They quickly found that it sounded better than Sharon's cellphone from Polk County.

Robert and Don also borrowed it 2 weeks later as the trio of storms came through.

$365 later, I was never paid, despite being promised over and over (including from MJ) that it would be taken care of.

Bottom line, NEVER do any favors for WFLA.

But it also shows, how poorly equiped they were in terms of dealing with an emergency.

 

[FiveStar]

Of course, that's the same station you say is doing such a great job.

You call what FLA is up against competition. I don't. Of course, you've made a lot more money in radio than I ever did so I guess when you get down to it that's all that matters.

 

[Kabrich]

Of course, that's the same station you say is doing such a great job.

Shows you I call them as I see them - what the facts represent - and not on the basis of who stiffed me $365.

You call what FLA is up against competition. I don't. Of course, you've made a lot more money in radio than I ever did so I guess when you get down to it that's all that matters.

Again, I could argue that what they were up against in 1990 was not competition (and the ratings would back me up). And believe me, there are MANY things I wish I could redo differently over the years - but we don't always get to do things the way we want to.

Bottom line, no one ever goes broke giving the public what they want.

 

[FiveStar]

You're arguing that the public WANTED mediocre, watered down content with a near total lack of local hosts and a drastically reduced local news commitment. I would argue that the public had no real choice. "Take it or leave it." Considering all the hand wringing about radio finances and stock prices of a lot of companies totally in the tank, it's hard to call it a winning strategy. As someone once said "Give me another such 'victory' and I am undone."

 

[The Beave]

Interesting as Fargo's local Talk Station was #5 last Fall Persons 25-54 while WFLA was #1 in Tampa - and Fargo's Local Talk Station had 50% less shares than the #1 station in Fargo. Slice it anyway you want, but WFLA is outperforming them on every metric that means anything.

Fargo Talk stations (the 2 that were on the air at the time)
Booked like this - 12+ and 25-54
KFGO-am #2
WDAY-am #5
Both talk are stations in Fargo..