pathetic tampa radio

[Don62]

So KMBZ has local mornings, Rush & O'Reilly instead of Rush and Beck, PM drive and then Levin instead of Hannity? Interesting, sounds the same as WFLA, except that WFLA was #1 P25-54 last Fall while KMBZ was #11, not #1 as you believe.

I love all the numbers being thrown around here that have no basis in reality. If you want to win with numbers, at least have them to back up your argument.

I didn't say KMBZ was the market's top station, just the market's top NT station.
WFLA is in no way anything like KMBZ or KMOX and WPHT and KLIF and KFAB and KOA and et. al.
Those stations take listener's calls. WFLA doesn't know what a caller to a call-in radio show is.

Those stations are real radio stations that run real programs, that make for compelling and interesting shows.
WFLA is totally syndicated, outside of early a.m., with Beck and Schnitt being national. Though Schnitt is broadcast from Tampa, it is no wise a Tampa show. He only cares about national politics and celebrities and sounds like a Rush-wannabe.

Those other great stations - a category WFLA hasn't been in in ages - don't run cookie-cutter programming by bean-counter suits that see anyone behind a microphone as a drag on "their" profits.

These other "stations" (I don't consider WFLA a "station") don't align their horses so closely with blowhards that everyone thinks the station is a right-wing moiuthpiece, as most listeners likely think of about WFLA which god help them if they air a show that isn't right-wing.


Well, lets see, 11th place KMBZ has Rush and O'Reilly, but they aren't right-wing mouthpieces......your comments get more comical by the minute.

KMBZ is the market's TOP talker. KCMO-A is waaaaay down on the list, having never recovered after axing most of its talent and going the easy route, all syndicated all the time.

KMBZ of course has to carry some national programs, but the station's shows aren't entirely right-wing blather. The morning host, while conservative, doesn't only squack about politics every single hour, as weaker content-wise WFLA does.

 

[scottsvb5]

New Ratings come out Tuesday.....

 

[smedge2006]

WFLA 11th place with a 2.3 Share. WSUN had a 0.8 share. WTKN had a 0.2 share. WEND had no one listening.

Total Talk Shares a 3.3 which would have been good for SURPRISE, SURPRISE.....11th place - no change in ranking.

You are only digging yourself deeper into a hole with revisionist history.

Not really. I said that WFLA had half the talk audience and the other three had the other half "give or take" -- acknowledging imprecision before I started because I don't have the rankers in front of me. By the numbers you quote the ratio was two to one. Still closer than any WFLA vs WWBA comparison today. I'm sure 970's management at the time would have preferred 11th with a 3.3 to 11th with a 2.3. And again, there's a certain obtuseness about the point. WFLA was doing worse after losing its top two LOCAL hosts and introducing a lineup which included the SYNDICATED Rush Limbaugh. Three books after his debut, Rush still hadn't "saved" the station. WFLA's numbers went up from there, in part because the competition went away. WTKN went to business (and sent Jay Marvin to WFLA), WSUN went back to country, and WEND even got into the business flavor of the month for awhile with something called Financial Broadcasting Network. Effectively from '90 to '92 WFLA had no meaningful competition, as has been the case from '95 until the recent (slow and painful) rise of WWBA.

I notice no quotes of that one Birch report during the Lassiter era that showed WFLA second behind Q105 overall (albeit with about a three-to-one spread).


By the way here are the Fall '89 ARB 25-54's 6 a - Mid M-S as reported by Roger Fischer in the St. Pete Times:

The Arbitron ratings, measured 6 a.m.-midnight, Monday-Sunday, persons age 25-54:

WUSA 12.2; WQYK-FM 10.6; WRBQ-FM 10.2; WFLZ 8.8; WWRM 8.0; WYNF 7.4; WNLT 6.2; WHVE 4.4; WKRL 4.0; WYUU 3.7;

WFLA 3.2; WTMP 2.3; WHBO 1.9; WDUV 1.6; WTKN 1.1; WRXB 1.0; WRBQ-AM 0.9; WPCV (Lakeland) 0.8; WSUN 0.8;

http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/sptimes...gs+signal+shifts+in+market+Series:+RADIO+TALK

WTKN + WSUN would have given WFLA a 5.1, good enough for 8th place. WTKN + WSUN were about 59% of WFLA's AQH share in the first Limbaugh book. When has WWBA been 59% of WFLA's AQH?

Another note about the talent who supposedly had an overinflated view of their worth:

There's a fan website called boblassiterairchecks. Does anyone think that, after their careers and their personal demise, there will be a glennbeckairchecks.com or a rushlimbaughairchecks.com?

 

[SG78]

There's a fan website called boblassiterairchecks. Does anyone think that, after their careers and their personal demise, there will be a glennbeckairchecks.com or a rushlimbaughairchecks.com?

If there is, it will be a subscriber service similar to what Limbaugh and Beck have setup now. There won't be a free-of-charge fansite, because EIB, Mercury Entertainment, CC, etc would never give such permission.

 

[Kabrich]

You're arguing that the public WANTED mediocre, watered down content with a near total lack of local hosts and a drastically reduced local news commitment. I would argue that the public had no real choice. "Take it or leave it." Considering all the hand wringing about radio finances and stock prices of a lot of companies totally in the tank, it's hard to call it a winning strategy. As someone once said "Give me another such 'victory' and I am undone."

No, I am arguing that the public LIKES what WFLA is doing now compared to 15-18 years ago.

You say its medicore, watered down content. The audience says its better than it was back then.

Perhaps you are the one that is out of touch?

Interesting as Fargo's local Talk Station was #5 last Fall Persons 25-54 while WFLA was #1 in Tampa - and Fargo's Local Talk Station had 50% less shares than the #1 station in Fargo. Slice it anyway you want, but WFLA is outperforming them on every metric that means anything.

Fargo Talk stations (the 2 that were on the air at the time)
Booked like this - 12+ and 25-54
KFGO-am #2
WDAY-am #5
Both talk are stations in Fargo..

Rank 25-54 Middays 10A -3PM Fall 2007 which is the last Book in the market.
KVOX-FM
KBVB-FM
KQWB-FM
KEGK-FM
KPFK-FM
KRWK-FM
KFGO-AM
KMJO-FM
KFNW-FM
KLTA-AM
WDAY-AM

Now unless you have a "new math" in Fargo, that's KFGO at #7 an WDAY at #11.
I stand by the numbers I posted.

I love how people keep trying sliding numbers around....

Quite simply, again, WFLA #1 Fall 2007, KFGO-AM #7, WDAY-AM #11

Don't tell me how great Fargo is....This is a Tampa thread.

 

[Kabrich]

So KMBZ has local mornings, Rush & O'Reilly instead of Rush and Beck, PM drive and then Levin instead of Hannity? Interesting, sounds the same as WFLA, except that WFLA was #1 P25-54 last Fall while KMBZ was #11, not #1 as you believe.

I love all the numbers being thrown around here that have no basis in reality. If you want to win with numbers, at least have them to back up your argument.

I didn't say KMBZ was the market's top station, just the market's top NT station.
WFLA is in no way anything like KMBZ or KMOX and WPHT and KLIF and KFAB and KOA and et. al.
Those stations take listener's calls. WFLA doesn't know what a caller to a call-in radio show is.

Those stations are real radio stations that run real programs, that make for compelling and interesting shows.
WFLA is totally syndicated, outside of early a.m., with Beck and Schnitt being national. Though Schnitt is broadcast from Tampa, it is no wise a Tampa show. He only cares about national politics and celebrities and sounds like a Rush-wannabe.

Those other great stations - a category WFLA hasn't been in in ages - don't run cookie-cutter programming by bean-counter suits that see anyone behind a microphone as a drag on "their" profits.

These other "stations" (I don't consider WFLA a "station") don't align their horses so closely with blowhards that everyone thinks the station is a right-wing moiuthpiece, as most listeners likely think of about WFLA which god help them if they air a show that isn't right-wing.


Well, lets see, 11th place KMBZ has Rush and O'Reilly, but they aren't right-wing mouthpieces......your comments get more comical by the minute.

KMBZ is the market's TOP talker. KCMO-A is waaaaay down on the list, having never recovered after axing most of its talent and going the easy route, all syndicated all the time.

KMBZ of course has to carry some national programs, but the station's shows aren't entirely right-wing blather. The morning host, while conservative, doesn't only squack about politics every single hour, as weaker content-wise WFLA does.

Again, the audience has plenty of choices. In fact, off is a legitimate choice.

You can try and spin it anyway you want, but WFLA is in better position in their markets than all the others that have been quoted as "so great".

The grass is always greener........

 

[Kabrich]

There's a fan website called boblassiterairchecks. Does anyone think that, after their careers and their personal demise, there will be a glennbeckairchecks.com or a rushlimbaughairchecks.com?

If there is, it will be a subscriber service similar to what Limbaugh and Beck have setup now. There won't be a free-of-charge fansite, because EIB, Mercury Entertainment, CC, etc would never give such permission.

WHAT A CONCEPT.....PEOPLE PAYING TO HEAR TALENT!!!!! They must be saying something people want to hear......

 

[Kabrich]

New Ratings come out Tuesday.....

Yes, and Bubba/Cowhead will cause WFLA and Snitt a lot more grief.

 

[Kabrich]

I'm sure 970's management at the time would have preferred 11th with a 3.3 to 11th with a 2.3.

I've got news for you. 11th place is 11th place, whether you are in 11th place with a 15 share or 11th place with a 1 share. Now you are sounding as bad as Snitt trying to argue when all the facts are against you and not listening to what you are being told.

I notice no quotes of that one Birch report during the Lassiter era that showed WFLA second behind Q105 overall (albeit with about a three-to-one spread).

That's right. Birch was a joke then and now. No money was ever made from selling Birch numbers (and it might not have even passed MRC Audits at that time either).

By the way here are the Fall '89 ARB 25-54's 6 a - Mid M-S as reported by Roger Fischer in the St. Pete Times:

The Arbitron ratings, measured 6 a.m.-midnight, Monday-Sunday, persons age 25-54:

WUSA 12.2; WQYK-FM 10.6; WRBQ-FM 10.2; WFLZ 8.8; WWRM 8.0; WYNF 7.4; WNLT 6.2; WHVE 4.4; WKRL 4.0; WYUU 3.7;

WFLA 3.2; WTMP 2.3; WHBO 1.9; WDUV 1.6; WTKN 1.1; WRXB 1.0; WRBQ-AM 0.9; WPCV (Lakeland) 0.8; WSUN 0.8;

http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/sptimes...gs+signal+shifts+in+market+Series:+RADIO+TALK

WTKN + WSUN would have given WFLA a 5.1, good enough for 8th place. WTKN + WSUN were about 59% of WFLA's AQH share in the first Limbaugh book. When has WWBA been 59% of WFLA's AQH?

Anyone who knows ANYTHING about the history of Tampa radio knows that the Fall 1989 numbers were vastly out of whack never to be repeated. WFLZ with their 11+ shares on a dance station that was made up of by 67% Male Listeners - until 98 Rock took them away 13 weeks later.

Another note about the talent who supposedly had an overinflated view of their worth:

There's a fan website called boblassiterairchecks. Does anyone think that, after their careers and their personal demise, there will be a glennbeckairchecks.com or a rushlimbaughairchecks.com?

yes - and it will actually have people going to it to hear the material.

 

[FiveStar]

No, you're right Randy. When given a choice of mediocre, watered down talent, or nothing, what does the audience do and where does it go? Those are the same kind of arguments Detroit made by building gas guzzlers and ignoring gas mileage. They were giving the people what they wanted. Of course, now that their short term thinking and lack of vision is catching up with them, the economic engine that used to drive the U.S. economy is on the verge of extinction.

Go ahead and keep telling your clients it's ok to gut their local content and grab the quick buck. It's what they want to hear and you're just giving the customers what they want, right?

 

[Don62]

Don't tell me how great Fargo is....This is a Tampa thread.

So?
If that tiny town has more and arguably better NT talent that surpasses the once-great 970, it is on topic.

After all, Mike Siegel, that great Seattle host, works there now. He couldn't get into the front door at WFLA because the chicken-sh-t station says "announcers need not apply. We only do things the easy way."

 

[Wazzie]

"I've got news for you. 11th place is 11th place, whether you are in 11th place with a 15 share or 11th place with a 1 share".

11th with a 15 share? Now THAT would be an interesting trick. Bet it's a lot easier to sell. Oh, I'm sorry. We HATE sales. DAMN those salespeople for earning us money. Lets run the station OUR way, ban commercials once and for all and when the bills come due and the talant wants to be paid, we'll just smile and point to our massive Arbitron numbers.

 

[Don62]

"I've got news for you. 11th place is 11th place, whether you are in 11th place with a 15 share or 11th place with a 1 share".

11th with a 15 share? Now THAT would be an interesting trick. Bet it's a lot easier to sell. Oh, I'm sorry. We HATE sales. DAMN those salespeople for earning us money. Lets run the station OUR way, ban commercials once and for all and when the bills come due and the talant wants to be paid, we'll just smile and point to our massive Arbitron numbers.

WFLA doesn't have much on-air talent. With zero on-air hosts after 9 a.m. every day, there's little overhead in that department.
That's what happens when you bring in nearly everything from satellite. You don't have a big payroll to feed.
Of course, the station's programming becomes more bland and generic and less interesting overall, but sales is the most important thing, right?

 

[The Beave]

Thank you Don - 8)

 

[MsMusicRadio]

what are Bubba and FLZ competing for? They don't seem to play the same stuff. Does WHPT play rap and contemporary? Doesn't FLZ scew female and WHPT male? My daughter and her friends listen to FLZ, never WHPT.

 

[smedge2006]

Anyone who knows ANYTHING about the history of Tampa radio knows that the Fall 1989 numbers were vastly out of whack never to be repeated. WFLZ with their 11+ shares on a dance station that was made up of by 67% Male Listeners - until 98 Rock took them away 13 weeks later.

I think we ALL know what happened between WFLZ and WRBQ in Fall '89. So let's apply Occam's razor here. Which would have had the most effect on WFLA's numbers in Fall '89.

A CHR war between two FMs... albeit a legendary one... OR...

The death of one host, the departure of another, wholesale changes in the lineup, the addition of a new syndicated host who didn't take off right away, and efforts by three other radio stations to become competitive in talk...

There's a fan website called boblassiterairchecks. Does anyone think that, after their careers and their personal demise, there will be a glennbeckairchecks.com or a rushlimbaughairchecks.com?
yes - and it will actually have people going to it to hear the material.

Not unless they're historians looking for fossil remnants of Lower American Conservative Thought with a few sprinkled laughs, 1988-20??. Otherwise, future websurfers are as likely to search out a Limbaugh moment as any of us would be to look for a Westbrook Pegler newspaper column from 1948. Lassiter's airchecks have intrigued people who weren't in Tampa or Chicago during his heyday, who weren't even alive or aware then... one example...

"I never heard of Lassiter until roughly 2004, when I stumbled upon the legendary Mr. Airstream call from 1987. I laughed so heartily that I googled his name, found more recordings, and sort of accidentally became a connoisseur of his career..."

http://musical-guru.blogspot.com/2006/09/one-for-bob-lassiter.html

Lassiter's themes had much more universality and he put much more of himself into the microphone that the cardboard cutout hosts who are a self-parody with the half-life of lead. They are by definition more timeless than 99.9 percent of current talk radio.

 

[jefflaurence]

Sorry Randy hates conventions because they achieve nothing..May be that he is right, but in my line of work it is a great place to meet an assembled group of potential clients..and I have always come away with several leads, and many times new stations out of these non-achieving conventions like the one coming up in Austin. He really sounds bitter these days. I like Randy a lot, and although I have never officially met him, I respect his ideas, and wish I could sit and gab with him over BBQ in Texas. Oh well.

As for the bottom line, yeah Randy's right..the cosmetics of the industry have changed right along with with the desires and cares of the audiences. They get what they listen to..and listen to what is available. It is more than possible that a locally programmed station with all the good stuff that we would like, might be totally ignored by today's fragmented listeners..Might be too much for them to handle.

 

[Kabrich]

Don't tell me how great Fargo is....This is a Tampa thread.

So?
If that tiny town has more and arguably better NT talent that surpasses the once-great 970, it is on topic.

After all, Mike Siegel, that great Seattle host, works there now. He couldn't get into the front door at WFLA because the chicken-sh-t station says "announcers need not apply. We only do things the easy way."

WFLA was #2 in the market in the ratings today. You think your Fargo station will even be in the Top 5? If I were a "Seattle Host" and could not make it into the Top 5 in Fargo, I think it's time to consider a real change of careers.

what are Bubba and FLZ competing for? They don't seem to play the same stuff. Does WHPT play rap and contemporary? Doesn't FLZ scew female and WHPT male? My daughter and her friends listen to FLZ, never WHPT.

Bubba usually plays about the same number of tunes at Snitt.

Sorry Randy hates conventions because they achieve nothing..May be that he is right, but in my line of work it is a great place to meet an assembled group of potential clients..and I have always come away with several leads, and many times new stations out of these non-achieving conventions like the one coming up in Austin. He really sounds bitter these days. I like Randy a lot, and although I have never officially met him, I respect his ideas, and wish I could sit and gab with him over BBQ in Texas. Oh well.

As for the bottom line, yeah Randy's right..the cosmetics of the industry have changed right along with with the desires and cares of the audiences. They get what they listen to..and listen to what is available. It is more than possible that a locally programmed station with all the good stuff that we would like, might be totally ignored by today's fragmented listeners..Might be too much for them to handle.

LOL....I am the only one not bitter on this entire thread!

Fortunately, I turn down most work that comes my way - so conventions are really worthless for me - just a place for those who cannot deal with change I guess.

Instead of going to conventions and posting online, perhaps those here (and I do mean all those that have posted in the last 24 hours, should go and watch 2 or 3 episodes of Kitchen Nightmares.

All the genius resturant owners who think they have a better plan - and are failing, putting their entire life in jeopardy because "they knew they were right". And it takes someone like Chef Gordon Ramsey to save their house, mortgage, family and business.

Everyone here thinks they have that great plan - like the owner earlier tonight that was convinced his 20 item sauce was a good and unique concept - while going broke.

Say all you want about the audience - but no one EVER went broke giving the customers what they wanted. The only people that fail are those who do NOT listen to what the people are telling them.

You can go whore yourself out at conventions - or you can do what people allude to here - pick and choose who you work with or whore yourself out. The people I want to work with are those who want to win and realize that - not those who think "they have the better mousetrap". So, have fun at your convention. I'll continue to pick and choose who I work with - the people that have reached the point of realizing they want to win - not just "talk" about it.

 

[Kabrich]

"I've got news for you. 11th place is 11th place, whether you are in 11th place with a 15 share or 11th place with a 1 share".

11th with a 15 share? Now THAT would be an interesting trick. Bet it's a lot easier to sell. Oh, I'm sorry. We HATE sales. DAMN those salespeople for earning us money. Lets run the station OUR way, ban commercials once and for all and when the bills come due and the talant wants to be paid, we'll just smile and point to our massive Arbitron numbers.

WFLA doesn't have much on-air talent. With zero on-air hosts after 9 a.m. every day, there's little overhead in that department.
That's what happens when you bring in nearly everything from satellite. You don't have a big payroll to feed.
Of course, the station's programming becomes more bland and generic and less interesting overall, but sales is the most important thing, right?

WFLA has a pretty big Programming Expense line for talent - more than most stations. Shows what is known by the "experts" posting here.

 

[Kabrich]

Here's an interesting little stat from Today's Released Ratings

93.9% of the people 12+ in Tampa listen to the radio at sometime during the week between 6am and 12am.

20 years ago, in Spring 1988, it was only 91.7%

The percent of the population 12+ LISTENING TO RADIO in this market has actually INCREASED over the past 20 years - yes, increased from the time when everyone seems to have done revivisionist history as to how great it is!

And in Fargo, that HAVEN of GREAT LOCAL TALK RADIO, only 93.0% of the population listens to the radio during a week.

More people listen in Tampa than in that world class town of Fargo! Imagine that!