Programmers say Dixie Chicks still not welcome on their airwaves

[TheBigA]

So, the question is: if a group's music is not testing well with the station's audience, should the station still play the songs out of some twisted idea of "fairness"? Put your business hat on and think about it for a few minutes.

I think that's what an Edison Research Group study did several years ago.

The initial wave of opposition to the Chicks came mostly from people who never heard their music. They were talk show listeners who were urged to call the country radio stations. That was the first wave. But then the resulting hysteria enveloped a lot of the actual country listeners. You tell people the same thing enough times, and they'll believe it. That's ultimately what happened. At the same time, the music by the Chicks changed. You compare songs on their first and second albums with what they did on the third, and the earlier stuff is far more commercial. So they were already starting to wear on people by 2003.

 

[smedge2006]

Amazing no one's brought up the Hank Williams Jr. incident in connection with this threads. You know 90% of those Dixie Chick-haters will defend Bocephus till hell freezes over. Free speech is free speech if I agree with it!

 

[Holland Cooke]

This was a couple pages back, if you missed it...

Amazing no one's brought up the Hank Williams Jr. incident

http://hollandcookemedia.wordpress.com/2011/10/05/both-kinds-of-radio-suffer/

 

[TheBigA]

http://www.radio-info.com/programming/country/hank-jr-gets-dixie-chicked-by-espn

Best line comes from KFKF's Dale Carter:

“I turned the tables and asked them why what Hank said was OK and they crucified the Dixie Chicks for saying they were embarrassed to be from the same state as George W. Bush,” Carter reports. “Apparently, that was different!”One caller told Carter, “If I didn't stop bringing up the Dixie Chicks, they’d run ME out of town,” he says. “So much for freedom of speech!

 

[Jay F]

Re: This was a couple pages back, if you missed it...

Amazing no one's brought up the Hank Williams Jr. incident

http://hollandcookemedia.wordpress.com/2011/10/05/both-kinds-of-radio-suffer/

One big difference is that the Dixie Chicks incident happened at the peak of their carreer. While Hank Jr is 25 years past his peak. Natalie absolutely crushed the Dixie Chicks brand with her comment, Hank Jr will simply lose his MNF novelty feature..he had much less to lose.

 

[flashback]

http://www.radio-info.com/programming/country/hank-jr-gets-dixie-chicked-by-espn

Best line comes from KFKF's Dale Carter:

“I turned the tables and asked them why what Hank said was OK and they crucified the Dixie Chicks for saying they were embarrassed to be from the same state as George W. Bush,” Carter reports. “Apparently, that was different!”One caller told Carter, “If I didn't stop bringing up the Dixie Chicks, they’d run ME out of town,” he says. “So much for freedom of speech!

it amazes me how free speach is important if you agree with what was said and if you disagree it is not.

 

[anatharadiorefugee]

I was aware of ESPN pulling Hank Jr as well they should have. He sounded drunk and quite ignorant. If country radio does not "dixie chick" him, it will speak volumes about the culture of country music. To me, it would speak fundamentally about the sexism and racism of the culture. If Joe Biden were president instead of O'Bama, I am confident that Hank Williams Jr would not feel so comfortable equating him to "the most hated man in history". I was not a Bush supporter and could not care less about what a Dixie Chick said about him in London. I am an Obama suppporter and I still am without a care what Hank Williams Jr says to Fox and Friends. However, if you, Mr. and Mrs. Country Programmer, felt the Dixie Chicks were "being unpatriotic" for stating their embarrassment of being from the same state of President GW Bush, then you must feel some kind of way about the venom HWJR spouted on Fox last Monday Morning. Further, If you hide behind your listners and state that HW tests well, then all is can say is wow. Radio is quite dead. Soulless.

 

[anatharadiorefugee]

After reading further I will state what will be a suprise to no one: I am not a country music radio vet nor am I a fan of the format. I have learned from my reading that apparently HWJR is a non factor in country music anylonger so aparantly there is no need to pull his music as nobody seems to be playing it. That's my take from what I have read. Am I right? Is there not a Continuous Country Clasics or Country AC format somewhere? Is there not place for old school country music? If there is, then ban his ass from those stations LOL!

 

[Jay F]

After reading further I will state what will be a suprise to no one: I am not a country music radio vet nor am I a fan of the format. I have learned from my reading that apparently HWJR is a non factor in country music anylonger so aparantly there is no need to pull his music as nobody seems to be playing it. That's my take from what I have read. Am I right? Is there not a Continuous Country Clasics or Country AC format somewhere? Is there not place for old school country music? If there is, then ban his ass from those stations LOL!

Some classic country stations do exist. The thing is the group of people who are outraged over Hank Jrs comments and the classic country audience could not be more different. The classic country audience would either take Hank's side, have no strong opinion about it, or have not even heard about what he said.

Plus you can't really punish an artist by not playing their music on classic country. That format doesn't exactly push a lot of music sales. The Dixie Chicks were pretty much destroyed. This won't and really can't happen to Hank Jr. If anything this is getting him in the news and makes more people aware of him.

 

[flashback]

I was aware of ESPN pulling Hank Jr as well they should have. He sounded drunk and quite ignorant. If country radio does not "dixie chick" him, it will speak volumes about the culture of country music. To me, it would speak fundamentally about the sexism and racism of the culture. If Joe Biden were president instead of O'Bama, I am confident that Hank Williams Jr would not feel so comfortable equating him to "the most hated man in history". I was not a Bush supporter and could not care less about what a Dixie Chick said about him in London. I am an Obama suppporter and I still am without a care what Hank Williams Jr says to Fox and Friends. However, if you, Mr. and Mrs. Country Programmer, felt the Dixie Chicks were "being unpatriotic" for stating their embarrassment of being from the same state of President GW Bush, then you must feel some kind of way about the venom HWJR spouted on Fox last Monday Morning. Further, If you hide behind your listners and state that HW tests well, then all is can say is wow. Radio is quite dead. Soulless.

i saw no racism in hank williams jr`s comments.a strong dislike of the current president yes.where was race mentioned?just because obama is talked about does not automatically constitute racism.

i don`t think it is sexism if he is not banned like the dixie chicks.it would not treating both incidents equally because of politically beliefs.

 

[scott salvatori]

Am I right? Is there not a Continuous Country Clasics or Country AC format somewhere? Is there not place for old school country music? If there is, then ban his ass from those stations LOL!

wow, there is a topic. how 99.9% of the hits from the 70's, 80's, and 90's are no where to be found on the radio. talk about the death of an American heritage music art form, known as country music!

whos hank jr? if it werent for monday night football, 99% of the NFL fans under 40, dont know who he is.

why ban his ass, or the dixie chicks. ever heard of free speech. did you hear the context of the hank jr/fox snippet, or do you just think hank jr called obama hitler? ever heard some of the rap music artist views and lyrics? you wanna ban them?

blown out of proportion media events and situations like this only create vanilla milk toast artists, who are afraid to say anything for fear of media frenzy back lash.

hank jr, is opinionated on many subjects, and speaks his mind, like any red blooded American. just like you all do with your friends and family. ever checked out some of his catalog of songs he's written: mr lincoln, knoxville courthouse blues, if the south woulda won, a country boy can survive? what do you want to do, send him to an education camp, to be a politically correct? what if it was mcain, instead of obama? i prefer the rough around the edge, speak your mind hank jr, and dixie chicks. i also base my respect of these two artists/groups, on their musical talent. not some off the cuff remarks blown way out of proportion by FOX hacks, and the rest of the lame stream news media.

 

[landtuna]

whos hank jr? if it werent for monday night football, 99% of the NFL fans under 40, dont know who he is.

why ban his ass, or the dixie chicks. ever heard of free speech. did you hear the context of the hank jr/fox snippet, or do you just think hank jr called obama hitler? ever heard some of the rap music artist views and lyrics? you wanna ban them?

Actually, if I were a benevolent dictator (or just owned a radio station) rap would have never aired in the first place. But back on topic.....

Bocephus forgot he had an employer and by shooting off his mouth, regardless of the depth of his comment or how it was interpreted, he was considered by said employer to have damaged their brand.

Smart people remember who signs their check. Idiot has-beens usually don't. Adios Bocephus. Don't let yer gee-tar hit you in the butt on the way out. You had a gravy train. Now you got bupkis.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

Nice rant Mr Salvatori.

After reading the last paragraph of your post, I conclude it is probably impossible for an artist to say something that would cause you to be disappointed in their speech pattern. Under your leadership the Harper Valley P.T.A. would never send a note to the singer's mother.

Help me out here. I know red blooded American is a part of our slang is a part or our conversational pattern but I am not sure I know how to define it. But what I really want to know is what other kinds of Amercans are there? For those we determine are not red-blooded, what are our choices for describing them? I've heard of the blue bloods but they seem to be very limited in number.

I know it's very old fashioned of me, and in my earlier years I could be just down-right prudish about it, but I grew up in a universe far, far away where people participating in media that was going into people's homes, going into people cars, or even going into movie theaters when children might be present used to do the red blooded American thing and speak respectfully about our government and our elected officials.

I watched the clip as broadcast by FOX. I think we all can agree that FOX pushes right up to the boundaries of good taste when it comes to political discussion. But when you watch the clip it is rather evident that even the red blooded American non-prudish hosts of the FOX network were startled, were shocked, were amazed with the words that came out of the mouth of Bocephus.

When the people at FOX thought it just a bit much... even when Hank Jr. is know to sing that all his rowdy friends are involved.... don't be too surprised that some of the rest of us thought it was just a bit much also.

 

[scott salvatori]

re reply #111(landtuna): yep, prob not a smart business move on hank jr part. what did fox hacks expect from an opinionated, beered up, outlaw rebel country singer, after a night of football and partyin'? seems nascar had this debate goin' on a few years ago regarding colorful/spirited comments, when reporters would stick a mic in the drivers face after just being taken out in a wreck caused by another. the fact that hank jr made it 20 years, without being taken out is unbelievable. its the same reason you dont see too many outlaw country singers being hired to brand other major network broadcasts. they is potential loose cannons. does this cause hanks fan to disown him? hell no!!! thats are boy! and has been since the 70's!!

thanks for the great music hank jr. and thanks for being you. a f'n rebel!

 

[firepoint525]

Amazing no one's brought up the Hank Williams Jr. incident in connection with this threads. You know 90% of those Dixie Chick-haters will defend Bocephus till hell freezes over. Free speech is free speech if I agree with it!

Actually discussed right here on RI:

http://www.radio-info.com/programming/country/hank-jr-gets-dixie-chicked-by-espn

 

[radioboy]

To bring this around back to radio, for a moment...

I looked at a Cumulus radio station playlist today. They played an older Dixie Chicks song
and a LeAnn Rimes song (gasp..on the same day!) We don't have a Cumulus country station, so
I just picked one that I was somewhat familiar with.

My background in radio included stints in AC/oldies, Christian CCM, Christian teaching, and talk.
I worked in terrestrial radio from 1979 until 2004, doing on-air, programming, sales, and whatever.
The one format I didn't program was country.

However, with country music being a personal favorite, I changed my Internet station from
full-time Christian to country in 2003. I don't have any artists banned. (My Internet station is not a "hobby." We sell ads and are represented by three different ad agencies, and I sell ads in my daily afternoon show. So I treat it as if it were a 100kw FM.)

I choose songs based on the song itself, not what a particular artist does or doesn't do, although some, as already discussed, manage to kill their own careers. That can be done in ways other than political statement stuff (Mindy McCready, for example.)

Unlike the "I hate the new country/I like the old" crowd, I find things that I like and dislike about all of it. Sure, I play songs I don't personally care for. But now, being my own boss, if I really
hate a song, it probably won't get played. Our audience numbers improved quite a bit when I began playing a blend of new country with a healthy dose of classic country (anything from 1948 on.)

All really old classic country, and the younger generation "doesn't know any of those songs." All Top 40 and "it's no different from the terrestrial Top 40 country station in town." So, programming a country station that everyone likes 100% of the time is difficult.

I might add that in approximately 8 years of programming the country Internet station, I've had lots of requests - but not a single one for the Chicks (or Hank Jr., for that matter.)

 

[firepoint525]

One big difference is that the Dixie Chicks incident happened at the peak of their carreer. While Hank Jr is 25 years past his peak. Natalie absolutely crushed the Dixie Chicks brand with her comment, Hank Jr will simply lose his MNF novelty feature..he had much less to lose.

It's also worth noting that the Dixie Chicks had no endorsement deals to lose (none that I am aware of, anyway). I liken what happened to Hank, Jr., more like what happened between Pepsi and Michael Jackson. When charges of child molestation hit the news, Pepsi didn't wait to find out if those charges were true, and they certainly didn't wait for a trial or an acquittal. They simply cut their losses, and cut their ties with Michael Jackson. That is essentially what Monday Night Football has done with Hank, Jr. Endorsement deals end. Happens all the time. Usually in much less controversial ways.

 

[firepoint525]

I looked at a Cumulus radio station playlist today. They played an older Dixie Chicks song
and a LeAnn Rimes song (gasp..on the same day!) We don't have a Cumulus country station, so
I just picked one that I was somewhat familiar with.

Since LeAnn has become the karaoke queen, you would likely be much better off playing the original artists' versions of anything later mangled by LeAnn, except for maybe "Blue." (I would also go with Yearwood's version of "How Do I Live," even though it was actually recorded later.)

I choose songs based on the song itself, not what a particular artist does or doesn't do, although some, as already discussed, manage to kill their own careers. That can be done in ways other than political statement stuff (Mindy McCready, for example.)

Given that she was a one-hit wonder, and that most of the bad publicity occurred years after that one hit, she really didn't have much of a career to kill. LeAnn Rimes, with her much publicized affair, is probably a better example. Although her career was also long past its prime.

I might add that in approximately 8 years of programming the country Internet station, I've had lots of requests - but not a single one for the Chicks (or Hank Jr., for that matter.)

And probably none for LeAnn Rimes or Mindy McCready, either.

 

[KFodor]

So, the question is: if a group's music is not testing well with the station's audience, should the station still play the songs out of some twisted idea of "fairness"? Put your business hat on and think about it for a few minutes.

I think that's what an Edison Research Group study did several years ago.

The initial wave of opposition to the Chicks came mostly from people who never heard their music. They were talk show listeners who were urged to call the country radio stations. That was the first wave. But then the resulting hysteria enveloped a lot of the actual country listeners. You tell people the same thing enough times, and they'll believe it. That's ultimately what happened. At the same time, the music by the Chicks changed. You compare songs on their first and second albums with what they did on the third, and the earlier stuff is far more commercial. So they were already starting to wear on people by 2003.

Resulting hysteria ? Or...fans hearing them say something like, "We don't want our fans to have CD's by Reba McEntire or Toby Keith in their CD players..." Surely, they were within their rights to say something like that, but the fans have the right to choose not to buy their music, either.

 

[hornet61]

I have deleted all my hank jr and charlie daniels from my computer......they are now, in the same class as david A. coe.... just kidding...ya all, see, we liberals, still believe in the constitution. We don't brag about defending old glory, and then crucify The Dixie Chicks for exercising their freedom of speech. Programmers accross the Red Zone spoke volumes about their mentality (or lack thereof) when they banned the Dixie Chicks. In the words of Forrest Gump, "that's all I'm going To say About that". Good night.