Programming Changes at KGO

[DavidKaye]

Problem is changing the promo voice doesn't change anything really.

But these subtle things do actually work. Replacing Bob Edwards on NPR's "Morning Edition" did bring in younger listeners, for instance.

People generally relate to those in their own age/demo group. There is a reason why young people appear in smart phone and clothing ads while old people appear in Medicare supplement and life insurance ads.

Sure WE notice it. But going to a female promo voice at TV hasn't brought in more female viewers, and younger promo voices hasn't moved a younger audience over. The product, not the promos, is what brings listeners, and revamping imaging risks confusing the loyal listeners.

KGO's listeners aren't loyal enough, and many of the ones remaining are worth losing. A radio station is like any other kind of business: it has to be positioned to serve a particular market. For instance I do freelance tech support as my main business. But it's more than that. I target toward professionals over age 45. All my promotion is aimed for that market. I couldn't care less about reaching people who are age 25. So, too, KGO has to target a particular demographic, and the older demo just isn't cutting it from a $$$ standpoint.

Younger producers at stations are convinced a younger promo voice works because of personal preference but bottom line, AM n/t attracts a somewhat older and mature audience.

Except that KNBR with its rock and roll production values is an AM station which trounced its competition in the last book, and in the prime demos advertisers want. Generally, yes, AM is ignored by people under age 50 or 55. But there can be exceptions as KNBR has proven these past couple quarters.

CNN is a prime example of this thinking. After going to a younger sound with the same older anchors, the result was the lowest numbers ever, and the promos lacked credibility.

I agree that KGO isn't going to win over new listeners or keep many of the current ones with its current format of encouraging inane callers to participate, the "Bob from Moraga" thing. KGO is going to need to replace hosts that stick to that kind of schtick with experts, or at least hosts who can encourage callers who are interesting.

 

[BossRadioDJ]

Except that KNBR with its rock and roll production values is an AM station which trounced its competition in the last book, and in the prime demos advertisers want.

I knew there was a reason KNBR's numbers were so high in the last book, and there it is -- rock and roll production values! I was leaning toward "Gary Radnich, Rod Brooks and Ralph Barbieri" as my answer, but this settles it!

 

[DavidKaye]

I knew there was a reason KNBR's numbers were so high in the last book, and there it is -- rock and roll production values! I was leaning toward "Gary Radnich, Rod Brooks and Ralph Barbieri" as my answer, but this settles it!

All those things add up. It doesn't hurt that the Giants brought in listeners, but KNBR has been doing well for some time.

 

[BossRadioDJ]

Let's see what the numbers add up to when we go from ratings bolstered by the World Series champion San Francisco Giants to a book that is based around the scintillating Golden State Warriors and the always electrifying 49ers...

 

[davideduardo]

Let's see what the numbers add up to when we go from ratings bolstered by the World Series champion San Francisco Giants to a book that is based around the scintillating Golden State Warriors and the always electrifying 49ers...

Yeah... this is a 2.8 to 3.5 share (25-54) station that had a big kiss in the tail part of the October book and the first three weeks of the November survey period. But afterwards, they went from nearly an 11 share to a 3 share between the final week of WS play and the first week without it. Still, an AM without an FM simulcast with around a 3 share 25-54 (and incredible male numbers) makes KNBR the leading AM in the sales demos.

 

[DyingMedium]

Really? Rock N Roll production values? ...Not the World Champion SF Giant Production values? Dude, you need to have someone else proof your stuff before you post.

Except that KNBR with its rock and roll production values is an AM station which trounced its competition in the last book, and in the prime demos advertisers want.

I knew there was a reason KNBR's numbers were so high in the last book, and there it is -- rock and roll production values! I was leaning toward "Gary Radnich, Rod Brooks and Ralph Barbieri" as my answer, but this settles it!

 

[DaveBayArea]

But afterwards, they went from nearly an 11 share to a 3 share between the final week of WS play and the first week without it.

Who said the younger folks don't know what AM radio is? The figure it out when they need to.

Dave B.

 

[sloux]

Well Sloux, Sorry to disappoint you, I'm still there.

Not disappointed at all my friend.

The Voice you are hearing, Ronn calls him SNARKY, was picked by Corporate and Internally. For the record I Had NO VOTE. Above my Pay Grade.

Snarky is an apt description of this nasal-sounding nerd.

What you call "promos" are actually "liners", Lonnie Perkins, our liner guy for 15+ years was let go in favor of a "Younger Voice"
The fact that Lonnie's stuff was Voice Only and this New Stuff is "Produced" is the reason. Once Again, For the record I Had NO VOTE. The Pay Grade thing again.

Sorry, I debated about calling them liners. True, most of this new sound is made up of liners. When I originally posted though, my mind was thinking about this New Voice's rambling on about how KGO deftly lured Gil Gross to northern California...as if he was revealing something most of the audience didn't already know. It sounded like a promo to me. I don't remember now but he probably ended with a liner, e.g. "The more you listen, the more you know..."

The jingle package is New, TM Century did the custom package for us...It was in the works 5 months ago. Once Again Before Mickey left. I feel like the new Jingle Package takes 20 years off the sound of the station, more energy, more alive. The liners
are edgy and a bit smart ass which also adds to the energy...Different YES, Bad, NO.
(That's My 2 Cents)

I concur that the jingle package seems to be a fountain of youth for the station, and that this does make the station more upbeat. That's a good thing. I'm not a big proponent of "smart-ass", which succinctly describes my reaction to New Voice. That sort of tone can be lumped together with drive-by media and dumbing-down of the public discourse. Couldn't they do young and smart without the ass?

 

[TheBigA]

I'm not a big proponent of "smart-ass", which succinctly describes my reaction to New Voice. That sort of tone can be lumped together with drive-by media and dumbing-down of the public discourse. Couldn't they do young and smart without the ass?

Unfortunately, the sound you want is already taken by KQED. So I can see them wanting to go after an edgier sound. The bad news is it conflicts with the dull sound of the show hosts. So at some point, they will new to amp up the hosts to fit the tone and demeanor of the imaging.

 

[kinetic]

I'm not a big proponent of "smart-ass", which succinctly describes my reaction to New Voice. That sort of tone can be lumped together with drive-by media and dumbing-down of the public discourse. Couldn't they do young and smart without the ass?

Unfortunately, the sound you want is already taken by KQED. So I can see them wanting to go after an edgier sound. The bad news is it conflicts with the dull sound of the show hosts. So at some point, they will new to amp up the hosts to fit the tone and demeanor of the imaging.

Maybe we should switch gears here and ask about changing the sound of the hosts. Given that "dull" is subjective, what's your idea of hosts who would "brighten," "sharpen" or "young down" the station. "Edgier" hosts? How should they sound and/or what should they be talking about?

 

[davideduardo]

But afterwards, they went from nearly an 11 share to a 3 share between the final week of WS play and the first week without it.

Who said the younger folks don't know what AM radio is? The figure it out when they need to.

Or, perhaps, when they are forced to do it.

For day to day listening, most under-50 listeners have no interest in AM even if they might like the same programming were it on FM.

 

[DavidKaye]

Maybe we should switch gears here and ask about changing the sound of the hosts. Given that "dull" is subjective, what's your idea of hosts who would "brighten," "sharpen" or "young down" the station. "Edgier" hosts? How should they sound and/or what should they be talking about?

For for my money I'd put the second-string hosts in the slots now occupied by the first-string hosts. That is, Marty Nemko, Pat Thurston, Christine Craft, and Brian Copeland.

 

[LKellerIII]

Maybe we should switch gears here and ask about changing the sound of the hosts. Given that "dull" is subjective, what's your idea of hosts who would "brighten," "sharpen" or "young down" the station. "Edgier" hosts? How should they sound and/or what should they be talking about?

For for my money I'd put the second-string hosts in the slots now occupied by the first-string hosts. That is, Marty Nemko, Pat Thurston, Christine Craft, and Brian Copeland.

I'd second that - I don't know Nemko, but I hink the others are first rate. I first heard Thurston back in the mid 90s when she had a mid-afternoon talk show on the pitiful KPIX-FM. Thurston and Nancy Snyderman actually made that station worth listening to for a few short months - between the 'All OJ, All the Time' format, and the sale to Bonneville.

 

[SFStatic]

Al Peterson reports that Ken Berry moves to PD at KSFO, Paul Hosley returns as KGO News Director. Jack Swanson remains as OM for both stations.

http://www.ntsmediaonline.com/

 

[Hit Bound]

With all due respect...KGO was propped up for YEARS by the antiquated diary system. Many people were convinced that if they had gone off the air during a spring rating period...they'd still have gotten a 4 share! Diary system was all about recall...not actual listening. Give them credit, they played the game very well for a lot of years, but the PPM methodology finally caught up with them.

 

[SFStatic]

Having worked with both, the diary and PPM each are inaccurate, but in different ways. The PPM really doesn't record listening at all, only what the meter picks up. They may or may not be paying a bit of attention to it. The meter just tends to "like" different formats and demos. The diary recorded what people listened to OR what they THOUGHT they remembered listening to, OR just their favorite station.

 

[DavidKaye]

Having worked with both, the diary and PPM each are inaccurate, but in different ways. The PPM really doesn't record listening at all, only what the meter picks up. They may or may not be paying a bit of attention to it. The meter just tends to "like" different formats and demos. The diary recorded what people listened to OR what they THOUGHT they remembered listening to, OR just their favorite station.

There is subliminal listening, and after all the idea is whether the advertiser's message reaches the listener. I'd say PPM is far more accurate than diaries, where listeners have been known to write that they were listening to dead DJs and non-existent stations.

Many times I've absorbed info, jingles, slogans, etc from radios I wasn't really listening to. You can't help it. My only beef with PPM is what Production Boy was talking about: breaking the segments into 15-minute parts and requiring 5 minutes of listening within those parts. Better they should be recording 5 minutes of continuous listening at any point, then simply average them into the 15-minute blocks. Example: someone listens from :13 through :19, which is 2 minutes in the first segment and 4 in the second. Well, under current PPM neither would count. What I'd suggest is to count it as 5 (or really 6) minutes of listening and then give it to the segment where most of the listening occurred, in this case the :15 to :30 segment. Thus, no listening is unaccounted for.

 

[davideduardo]

Having worked with both, the diary and PPM each are inaccurate, but in different ways. The PPM really doesn't record listening at all, only what the meter picks up.

And that is what advertisers want: impressions. And that's whey radio agreed to the higher cost of PPM.

 

[SFStatic]

I understand this, David, but you aren't really getting impressions at all when the person carrying the meter is completely ignoring the music in a store as "background noise." If they are listening wherever they may be, that's different. The one real "win" for the PPM is the demise of the "beauty contest," i.e. people just writing down hours and hours of phantom listening to favorite stations.

 

[davideduardo]

I understand this, David, but you aren't really getting impressions at all when the person carrying the meter is completely ignoring the music in a store as "background noise." If they are listening wherever they may be, that's different. The one real "win" for the PPM is the demise of the "beauty contest," i.e. people just writing down hours and hours of phantom listening to favorite stations.

Radio buys ratings to be able to give metrics to advertisers. The advertising community is interested in impressions... think billboards here... and a big part of the change to PPM was due to advertiser requests for this as well as more timely data... something that eliminated the diary.

Because "rating" (or share or AQH persons) is derived from cume and time spent listening, occasional or accidental listening to a station my increase cume, but will not increase TSL. Since rating, not cume, is the metric used for ad buys, a that light, occasional listening has little influence on the rating/share/AQH Persons.

The issue with the diary is not "voting" for a favorite station by adding more hours, evidence of which I never saw in Beltsville, Laurel or Columbia. The issue is that listening times are rounded, almost always upwards, in the diary...