Radio is Pathetic

[BossJock1947]

As I recall Mr Stolz's station had very good numbers and made money (a lot of it!!) without having to answer to any share holder!

I was one of 3 consultants for Ed a short time in '90. He was his own worst enemy.

 

[newsperson]

Newsperson responds:

Ed Stolz; I beleive that Ed made a ton of money during his day in Sacramento.

What irriated me the most was all the trades he would hord to himself and let them exprie instead of allowing anyone else to use them.

In regard to Entercom I remember the deal (for KWOD) was for the FM in San Francisco for a straight exchange. Ed was so happy to get an S.F. FM, however when Entercom later propsed to trade the same station to Infinity, Ed didn't pursue it and thought the deal was off, was he ever wrong.

The big difference about the Ed Stoltz KWOD was that is wasn't so national sounding as it have so much more of a regional flavor that you don't hear today. Any other comparisons?

Newsperson

 

[BossJock1947]

Newsperson responds:

Ed Stolz; I beleive that Ed made a ton of money during his day in Sacramento.

What irriated me the most was all the trades he would hord to himself and let them exprie instead of allowing anyone else to use them.

In regard to Entercom I remember the deal (for KWOD) was for the FM in San Francisco for a straight exchange. Ed was so happy to get an S.F. FM, however when Entercom later propsed to trade the same station to Infinity, Ed didn't pursue it and thought the deal was off, was he ever wrong.

The big difference about the Ed Stoltz KWOD was that is wasn't so national sounding as it have so much more of a regional flavor that you don't hear today. Any other comparisons?

Newsperson

He had a thing for the ladies. I remember one late night coming out of the station to the parking lot and saw his corvette parked. I went over to say goodbye and when i got close enough i saw this pale white ass up in the air and he was screwing some whore. Come to think of it, it was his receptionist.

 

[TRTG]

I can't tell you how many times i heard... ...on big AM stations.

People still listen to AM radio? Why?

Get your news from the internet and clearer quality music on FM.

 

[Zeb Norris]

Really...does the drop in quality surprise anyone? How is the on-air talent going to learn their craft? Live overnights are a thing of the past, live weekends are following close behind, and anyone who can serve as a mentor has been shown the door due to cost-cutting.

I've said this before and I'll say it again. Working overnights is no way to "learn their craft." It's rare that someone on the overnight shift gets promoted to a better shift on the same station. Once a PD finds someone who will show up every night, he keeps them there until he quits. There is no mentoring that gets done with overnighters. No one at the station even knows they're there. If you do overnights, you either stay there forever, or you quit and get a better shift someplace else. My advice to someone who wants to learn how to be on-air talent is to work with someone who has a real shift. Be part of a morning team in a market. Learn what goes on in drive time. Not overnights.

Also, you don't start in a Top 30 market. That's not going to work. And an AC station is a terrible place to start. Even if they had a full time local staff, what kind of training is that? No one said it's going to be easy. There is a glut of people who want to work in broadcasting. The colleges are spitting out thousands of newbies every year. I compare it to becoming a recording artist. What percentage of singers become superstars? Same with radio.

I came up through working overnights. Pre digital era, so things were different, but I LOVED overnights; and my willingness to do them took me from Santa Barbara to Sacramento to San Francisco, where I WAS promoted to Music Director at KRQR.

OK, different era, but but I still disagree with your assertion... very strongly. And if you're expecting someone to teach you how to be good, you're an idiot. Run tapes. Listen. Form your own opinion. Develop your own style. Sure, airchecks are nice, but nothing beats being driven to succeed. And you can do that in overnights.

 

[Stage5Clinger]

He used to try to pick up on me when I was a 17 and had an internship at KWOD. I thought he was a creepy old man, and did my best to avoid him when he was in the building. He even trying picking up on one day while a chick he was seeing was waiting for him in the lobby.

 

[nomorejeffs]

...if you're expecting someone to teach you how to be good, you're an idiot.

I appreciate your position, Zeb, but I don't agree. Like you, I had the good fortune to come up through the overnight/weekend system, and I'm convinced that was the biggest contributor to my success (such as it was) in radio. What I lacked was someone to teach me the fundamentals of entertaining, effective radio...when to talk, when not to talk, how long to talk, how to structure a show, how to effectively prep for a show, etc. You can figure this stuff out yourself over time, but it's so much easier and quicker to learn if you're getting feedback from veteran broadcasters. (It does sting the ego quite a bit more, but it's worth it in the long run!) I would have been a much better broadcaster much sooner if someone had a)told me I needed to edit myself better and b)shown me how to do it.

 

[John Walker]

I also started weekends/overnights in my first *real* radio gig (my first radio was running the religious programs on a dawn til dusk AM, not much mic time there)

I had the good fortune of having a PD that called me in for weekly airchecks, pointing out what I shouldn't do and suggesting what I should do. He was patient, it took me a while to be able to stop "announcing" and start talking. And my experiences doing news and traffic for various stations via Metro, and interacting and being involved in bits with the air talent were invaluable.

A good teacher is necessary, but doing it WITH pros and learning as you do with them really honed my skills and taught me a lot.


Regarding Stolz, a date and I were behind him on the bleachers at a Cal Expo concert in the 80's. He had a blonde, well-dressed woman with him that looked just killer from the back.

Then she turned around. Hilarity ensued.

 

[djj]

I had the good fortune of having a PD that called me in for weekly airchecks, pointing out what I shouldn't do and suggesting what I should do. He was patient, it took me a while to be able to stop "announcing" and start talking. And my experiences...interacting and being involved in bits with the air talent were invaluable.

A good teacher is necessary, but doing it WITH pros and learning as you do with them really honed my skills and taught me a lot.

I share John's fortunes as I have had the pleasure of learning from some of
the best in my endeavors, too, and in disagreement with TheBigA (aka TBA), overnights is NOT a bad place to hone one's skills, let alone weekends - if you
can find a commercial station that still hires either. But are there really ANY
"live" overnight slots left, aside from the All-News KCBS' or non-commercial
community-radio stations of the world?

And an "AC" station, at least in the 1980s when it still had personality more
around-the-clock than it does now, is a perfect place to start, because an
announcer is encouraged to sound more 'one-to-one,' as John hit on-the-mark
in his above post...

I was very fortunate to have learned from pros like Mikel Hunter, Marc Hunter
(not related), Bob Malik and Jon Brent...and while Zeb pointed out, "Sure,
airchecks are nice, but nothing beats being driven to succeed," NMJeffs is
also correct when he says it's "easier and quicker to learn if you're getting feedback from veteran broadcasters." That, IMHO, will NEVER change...
--jay

 

[TheBigA]

OK, different era, but but I still disagree with your assertion... very strongly.

You are living proof of what I say. Working the overnight shift did not lead to Music Director. Your passion and interest earned you that job. Under normal circumstances, a person doing overnights would still be in Santa Barbara. YOU are the reason you moved up...not the shift.

I did overnights, and quickly realized the reason it was called the graveyard. I quit before my first anniversary and never looked back. I could have easily picked up the more experience running my own internet station or doing volunteer work at the local NPR station.

I learned from a California legend: Thom O'Hair. And I didn't do it in overnight, but with him during his shift in PM drive. Those opportunities exist today, even though Thom is gone.

 

[punkdj]

Really...does the drop in quality surprise anyone? How is the on-air talent going to learn their craft? Live overnights are a thing of the past, live weekends are following close behind, and anyone who can serve as a mentor has been shown the door due to cost-cutting.

I've said this before and I'll say it again. Working overnights is no way to "learn their craft." It's rare that someone on the overnight shift gets promoted to a better shift on the same station. Once a PD finds someone who will show up every night, he keeps them there until he quits. There is no mentoring that gets done with overnighters. No one at the station even knows they're there. If you do overnights, you either stay there forever, or you quit and get a better shift someplace else. My advice to someone who wants to learn how to be on-air talent is to work with someone who has a real shift. Be part of a morning team in a market. Learn what goes on in drive time. Not overnights.

Also, you don't start in a Top 30 market. That's not going to work. And an AC station is a terrible place to start. Even if they had a full time local staff, what kind of training is that? No one said it's going to be easy. There is a glut of people who want to work in broadcasting. The colleges are spitting out thousands of newbies every year. I compare it to becoming a recording artist. What percentage of singers become superstars? Same with radio.

bigA , have you been following me all these years?
wierd... you said it... i have been doing overnights in SF for years and yeah, i showed up, never called in , was always on time etc... and yeah stayed at that shift until i went crazy. now I do weekends and fii lin shifts in sac.
however, i do disagree on one point, overnights are a great way to learn, the only problem is some markets, mainly Sac, dont have the overnighters in the studio live. it is voicetracked. voicetracking, in my opinion, is harder to do than a live shift. so there is no opportunity to really get experience.

 

[TheBigA]

i do disagree on one point, overnights are a great way to learn,

Learn from whom?

 

[punkdj]

i do disagree on one point, overnights are a great way to learn,

Learn from whom?

when i did overnights i had to come in for airchecks with the PD at least twice a month. thats who you learn from, overnights are a great time to learn because it really doesnt matter if you screw up.
so yeah, you learn from your PD. but, when you are voicetracking, you really arent getting real experience since you have several takes.

 

[TheBigA]

when i did overnights i had to come in for airchecks with the PD at least twice a month.

I doubt that happens at many stations now, regardless of the shift. You're better off working on a shift with someone who knows.

but, when you are voicetracking, you really arent getting real experience since you have several takes.

You only have several takes if that's what you choose. And you think you don't learn by fixing mistakes? Of course you do. One of my first jobs was doing local cut ins for an automated station in upstate NY. I recorded live to cart. Sure, I could bulk the cart and start over. But the goal was to be perfect the first time. One take wonder. That's a game you can play. But there is no law that VT has to be perfect.

Recording artists went through this same issue when multi-track came about. Back in the old days, a record was made live, no overdubs or fixes. You keep doing it until you get it right. Now, you can fix every little thing. Some artists fix, some leave imperfections in. Like overdubs, VT is a TOOL, nothing more. How you use it is up to you.

The other thing is every station is different. You learn a system at one station, get a job someplace else, and they tell you to forget it and learn their system. I went through that a lot.

 

[Zeb Norris]

when you are voicetracking, you really arent getting real experience

Really? I was doing some regular local voicetracked shows in Santa Barbara a while back, and I felt like the experience helped me become a better jock because I could drive around and listen to the show the way a listener would.

After noticing that I wasn't nearly as interesting as I thought I was, I really tightened up on self editing. A little personality goes a long way...

 

[hammerpants]

?????

I don't understand... a jock not as interesting as he thinks he is?

UNHEARD OF!!!

 

[DJBigOne]

Unfortunately most Sac radio stations do suck, with only a few exceptions. I listen to two syndicated shows in the morning, and 3 afternoon shows (yes, I switch during commercials). When a couple of stations played the Obama new conference, yesterday, I had to have a Red Bull just to make it home.

The morning zoo type morning shows make me want to puke. I mean they literally almost make me sick! I think it is because they are wasting so much time with cackling women in the background, stupid bits, and worse. I would be pleasantly surprised if a morning show actually did a stunt! It doesn't cost that much...if money is the problem. I thought it was awesome when 98Rock did the giveaways during the Xmas season...

 

[TRTG]

I thought it was awesome when 98Rock did the giveaways during the Xmas season...

98 rock is only awesome from 10am to 5am the next day

5am to 10am is horrid

 

[John Walker]

Yeah, obviously they get the numbers, but I have no clue why.

If I'm listening to the radio in the am, I listen to Mark and Brian.