Re: Movin Not Airing Legal I.D.

[davideduardo]

Re: Movin Not Airing Legal I.D.

3) Use of English in the modernized world is absolutely "prevalent". In fact, is is a required course in the educational systems of Japan, Germany, Netherlands and now parts of Russia. Did you also know that the use of English globally is increasing, not decreasing? Also for the record there is no language on earth called "Chinese". The Chinese people speak a multitude of languages, including Mardarin and Cantonese. (English oddly enough, is in the Top 5).

5) And universally despised? Maybe the military policies at any given time. But I travel extensively, (as I'm sure you have), will tell you that the United States is universally perceived as the most coveted place to live in the world. It is the place where people come to pursue their dreams, and American entertainment remains one of the most exportable items on the globe. Why do we have a problem with illegal immigration on a scale that is matched nowhere in the world?? If America were indeed universally despised, as you say, you'd probably have a lot less success with the brand of radio you support.

Very few people, numerically, in the world learn English. In most countries, it is a couple of percent of the total, nand mostly the wealthy elite who can send their children to private schools. Even the US territory of Puerto Rico has less than 25% bilinguals in the population, despite being part of the US for 108 years.

BTW, The Oxford American Dictionary shows "Chinese" as the language of China and Mandarin, et. al. are dialects.

I see only resentment (whether from envy or hatred) of the US where I go. Those who want tocome to the US come mostly because of limited economic opportunity, famine or persecution (Italy, Ireland, Mexico, Cuba are examples of the three). The common person in Argentina or Egypt or France or the Philippines dislikes the US due to its perceived international arrogance. In this hemisphere, nearly every nation, form Chile to the Dominican republic and Mexico, has had a US military incursion or interference with its own internal government. Among the invaded or intervened nations are Cuba, D.R,, Mexico, Haiti, Grenada, Colombia, Panama, Nicaragua, Honduras, Guatemala, Ecuador, etc. This hardly builds friendships; this causes immense resentment.

At present, the immigrants coming to the US are not coming for freedom and opportunity. they are ocming, like the Irish in the late 1840's, to escape poverty, starvation or persecution.

 

[Noiseboxxx]

Re: Movin Not Airing Legal I.D.

so...what does all this have to do with KZLA/KMVN not airing any legal i.d.?

you guys should really call each other on the phone, or use an instant messenger to discuss/argue/harp/nitpick this stuff.

really.

???

 

[hamNcheese]

Re: Movin Not Airing Legal I.D.

David...just shut up already. Nobody cares that you are a racist (amazing that that word is being edited in some posts???) Good for you. You can be an embarressment to the cultural melting pot that this country is supposed to be, then try and cover your arse by double talk and jibber jabber, supported by internet sources that you would never use otherwise. Hooray for you.

Put up an electric barbwire fence. Pay and Arm the militiamen. Keep illegals out of our country since they despise us so much. (<<<<<<<Angry Sarcasm )


UGH! I wanna write so much more but am so damn disgusted by you. Your no better then any other racist by any skin color.

[EDIT] and talk about somthing else.

[EDIT-profanity]

 

[doublecashkgb]

Re: Movin Not Airing Legal I.D.

David is a self-hating American, the worse kind. It's interesting that he adopted a "gringo"
name "Gleason". David, answer one thing. Since the hoards of illegal-aliens, & Hispanic
gangs have infested cities from Santa Ana to Palmdale to Riverside, do you think we are
better off or worse off?.

 

[zumahans]

Re: Movin Not Airing Legal I.D.

First we hear you say "this is just a reflection of the self-centered gringo mentality."

Then in the next post you claim: "I am not calling anyone a gringo."

Which is it, Dave?

 

[zumahans]

Re: Movin Not Airing Legal I.D.

----->>> I am not calling anyone a gringo. I am stating that the use of the term by Hispanics is generally not negative, unless the entire context is negative. To most, the word itself is neutral and the context defines whether there is insult or offense intended.

To most what? To most self-loathing apologists who profit handsomely by cleaving our society into linguistic barrios?

-----> As I said, the term as used by Hispanics is a Spanish word and does not have the meaning that some "gringos" believe it to have.


As you do not seem to be capable of seeing, as you wear tricolored lenses: once that word is used against English speakers, by English speakers, it is per se a perjorative.

----> Since most (there was a poll on this some time back) believe the word originated as an insult in the Mexican American war (untrue), they also seem to believe the term is a Mexican insult on US Citizens.

Correct. My point exactly. Most whites view the word as an insult. The dictionaries say it is. Common understanding says it is. Why do you swim upstream and say it's not?

Most blacks believe the n-word is a perjorative, when used by non-blacks. And now you admit that most whites believe gringo is offensive. Thank you for proving my point.

----> Those raised in Hispapnic households know differntly. The term is not offensive per se,


To them! That is not the point! It is offensive to US!

----> no matter what some non-Hispanic believes. The world is full of urban legends. The meaning and origins of the term "gringo" are certainly in the uban legend department.


No, the origin and use of the term gringo has been academically studied.

-----> Oh, a public file complaint has to be about the programming and operation of a radio station, not about a philosopical difference of opinion about the meaning of a word.

And what if the radio station is being operated by a racist, Dave? One who is so racist that he does not even see the hate he spews by his very choice of words?

-----> Again, for the slow learners: "americano/a" in Spanish means someone from the Americas, not an US Resident... so it can not be used.

Again, a nasty attack on honest people who simply disagree with you. In English, which is the language we are speaking (why do I have to keep reminding you of this?), Americans generally means north of the rio Grande. Yeah, that's chauvinistic and U.S.-centric, but it is also true. If americano has a different meaning in Spanish, goody goody ole.

But we are not speaking Spanish here, are we? And as such, doesn't the definition of the words gringo or american in Spanish really seem to be irrelevant?

----->You are making much out of nothing.

Am I?

The what, just what is the piffle you raise over and over again about San Luis Potosi staying on the air too late on 1070? Or attacking people because they have the temerity to say Tia Juana? Or because someone who does not speak Spanish very well once got the gender wrong on Rosarito, B.C.?

Some would say the issue of attacks made of the basis of nationality by a high-ranking official of a major FCC licensee is very, very serious, Dave.

 

[zumahans]

Re: Movin Not Airing Legal I.D.

so...what does all this have to do with KZLA/KMVN not airing any legal i.d.?

A fair question.

What it has to do with radio is that several of us are sick and tired of being talked down to by an executive at a radio megacorporation, and that we are calling him on his hypocrisy, dishonesty, distortion of statistics and - well, I can't use the r word anymore, but we all know what racista means in Spanish.

Did I spell that right, Dave?

 

[zumahans]

Re: Movin Not Airing Legal I.D.

----> David...just shut up already.

I think it's important that people look at the man behind the curtain. I for one thank him for his comments.

 

[davideduardo]

Re: Movin Not Airing Legal I.D.

First we hear you say "this is just a reflection of the self-centered gringo mentality."

Then in the next post you claim: "I am not calling anyone a gringo."

Which is it, Dave?

A "mentality" is not a person.

All this started in trying to explain to slow learners that, to Hispanics, the term "gringo" is not of itself offensive. Like any other term, adding an adjective can change it's meaning.

To call a person a German is not offensive. It is just a refernce to origin. To call them a "fascist German" or "a post-war German" changes the nature of the base noun immensely.

The same is true of "gringo" to Hispanics. A plain gringo is just a non-Hispanic caucasian of light complecton. A "pinche gringo" is a bad gringo. "Mi gringuito" would be a term of love and affection said by a woman to a man.

It all depends on context, and I started this by trying to show that the term, coming from an Hispanic, is negative or offensive only if the entire context is offensive... while the word itself is not and that people who hear the term should not automatically think that they are biedng insulted because, in all liklihood, they are not.

That is all I intended to say.

Anyone who still thinks the term is an insult is victim of what I called a "self centered gringo mentality" In my usage here, the term is negative and reflects on the fact that many Americans believe the US culture and society is somehow superior to that of any other nation or group. Most Americans are not of this persuasion and attitude, yet the ones that are tend to be the loudmouths and boors that folks from other nations see. Unfortunate.

If this shoe fits you, please, be my guest and wear it. And then go back and pick up the 50's book called "The Ugly American" which is by an American author and describes the "superior feeling" American abroad who generates the misconception of Americans as arrogant and evil... just as Hollywood has created an image of America that does not reflect the reality of American life.

 

[davideduardo]

Re: Movin Not Airing Legal I.D.

Some would say the issue of attacks made of the basis of nationality by a high-ranking official of a major FCC licensee is very, very serious, Dave.

The fact is that all we have here is a difference in the interpretion of a word. I say that Hisapnics see and view the word as unoffensive unless in offensive context. You believe it is intended as an insult at all times.

I think you are wrong. You think I am. It is a difference of opinion.

Just as I believe the US has erred gravely for 200 years in its foreign policy towards the Americas, you have the right to believe invading a dozen nations or intervening in thier internal affairs is right. It is all about a point of view.

And I am not speaking of nationalities. I am speaking of groups of persons in different countires who have specific beliefs or are alighned with particular political groups. Your statements are intended, as a un-veiled threats, to silence a differing opinion which is so simple: "Gringo to Hispanics is not a bad word."

Go ahead, believe what you want. But do not threaten a person for believing differently from you, as that is the most evil sin of all.

P.S. The SLP staiton was never on late (in fact, it only operates a few days a week); the station interfing with KNX was and still is the one in Obregón, Sonora. All this does is show how hard it is for you to let go of your obsessions.

 

[davideduardo]

Re: Movin Not Airing Legal I.D.

David is a self-hating American, the worse kind. It's interesting that he adopted a "gringo"
name "Gleason". David, answer one thing. Since the hoards of illegal-aliens, & Hispanic
gangs have infested cities from Santa Ana to Palmdale to Riverside, do you think we are
better off or worse off?.

Gangs are a product of the local environment... bad schools, social conditions that dead-end many youths, etc. A whole book could be written about gangs today.

But the gangs today are not just Hispanic. They are Black, Asian and non-Hispanic white. Just as there were Irish ganges in the mid-1800's, the common factor is lack of opportunity and poverty.

BTW, "O'Gleison" (the Irish original) is a Celt name, and originates in Galicia in NW Spain during the time when the Celts controlled most of SW Ireland and NW Spain and the two were parts of the whole. There was a "Gleason" (maternal surname) in the San Patricios in Mexico and the Mexican Ambassador to the UK in the 70's was one, too.

 

[zumahans]

Re: Movin Not Airing Legal I.D.

----->>> "A 'mentality' is not a person."

Oh. I was mistaken that you were referring to people with gringo mentalities as gringos. That would be as incorrect as referring to people with racist mentalities as racists.

----> All this started in trying to explain to slow learners

Just a minute: don't you mean people with a slow-learning mentality?

------> that, to Hispanics, the term "gringo" is not of itself offensive. Like any other term, adding an adjective can change it's meaning.

No, that is not what you have said. You have said it is not a racist term. You have futilely argued to the point of humiliating yourself that dictionaries are wrong, that common usage is wrong, and that we are all slow learners.

----> To call a person a German is not offensive. It is just a refernce to origin. To call them a "fascist German" or "a post-war German" changes the nature of the base noun immensely.

Perfect, Dave. Once again you use a supercilious example and manage to muddle up the truth in a fog of mistaken definition and thinking. If you are going to lecture on English, then you had better learn the difference between NOUN and SUBJECT. In your above examples, the subjects ("fascist german" or "postwar german") are arguably offensive. But the very nature of the noun itself ('german") has not changed.

The word "German" itself or modified by an adjective is not under any usage in English offensive. Substitute an offensive word in there, say, "nazi", and now you have the apt example, although I will concede Nazi ss far more offensive than gringo.

----->The same is true of "gringo" to Hispanics. A plain gringo is just a non-Hispanic caucasian of light complecton. A "pinche gringo" is a bad gringo. "Mi gringuito" would be a term of love and affection said by a woman to a man.

Yuck.

----->It all depends on context, and I started this by trying to show that the term, coming from an Hispanic, is negative or offensive only if the entire context is offensive... while the word itself is not.

There is no context to an English speaker in which the word "gringo" is not offensive, just like th dictionary says, and just like you dcannot see through your tricolor glasses.


----->Anyone who still thinks the term is an insult is victim of what I called a "self centered gringo mentality" In my usage here, the term is negative and reflects on the fact that many Americans believe the US culture and society is somehow superior to that of any other nation or group.

Or, maybe, just maybe, they understand the English language better than you.


---->And then go back and pick up the 50's book called "The Ugly American" which is by an American author and describes the "superior feeling" American abroad who generates the misconception of Americans as arrogant and evil...

Who needs that, Dave, when we have you to show just how ugly some Americans are?

 

[zumahans]

Re: Movin Not Airing Legal I.D.

-----> The fact is that all we have here is a difference in the interpretion of a word. I say that Hisapnics see and view the word as unoffensive unless in offensive context. You believe it is intended as an insult at all times.

------>I think you are wrong. You think I am. It is a difference of opinion.

No, no, no, no. You don't get off that easy.

You do not disagree, you impugn and insult. People who disagree with you are ugly americans, affilicted with gringo mentality, who are slow learners.

---->Just as I believe the US has erred gravely for 200 years in its foreign policy towards the Americas, you have the right to believe invading a dozen nations or intervening in thier internal affairs is right.

I have never once advocated US intervention in fetid tortilla or banana republics, I oppose it now and would have opposed it generations ago. You make a conclusion based on my ethnicity that I support yanqui imperialism.

How ugly is your little world of stereotypes.

-----> Your statements are intended, as a un-veiled threats, to silence a differing opinion which is so simple: "Gringo to Hispanics is not a bad word."

That's not what you said, David, and your pathetic revanchist attempt to cdover your tracks is apparent for all to see, read and chuckle at.

You said gringo is not perjorative in English. You said dictionaries are wrong. And you call people who disagree with your small world view "slow learners," "ugly americans," afflicted with "gringo mentality" and worse.

Your are wrong, Dave, we have proven it and you are too full of yourself, too self-centered, and too cultutally blind to see it. Let it go, Dave, you only dig your hole deeper. Maybe KM Richards can be persuaded to come over here to throw you a rope?

"A mentality is not a person." Let me write that one down.

 

[davideduardo]

Re: Movin Not Airing Legal I.D.

There is no context to an English speaker in which the word "gringo" is not offensive, just like th dictionary says, and just like you dcannot see through your tricolor glasses.

I am an English speaker, and I do not find the term offensive. In work situations, I hear the term often, and it is not, whether spoken by a Unitedstatsian or an Hispanic, offensive.

If it is offensive to you, that is a personal problem. Most English speakers I know, including those with no Hispanic heritage, do not find it offensive.

In fact, in the Chapala area of Jalisco, where there are tens of thousands of US expats, there is a social club that uses the term "Gringo" in its name; all the members are form the US and the name is supposed to be cute... which it is!

From Mr sancho's Restaurant website:

If you come to Mexico for the tantalizing food, then Mr. Sancho's will wet your appetite, and don't worry, there is a gringo section on the menu too.

From the locogringo.com site about the Riviera Maya... read for yourself: http://www.locogringo.com/akumal/bp_sports_kidsclub.html

A resident gringo in Mexico writes on the web...

A Gringo in Mexico Reflects on the Election at http://www.mexidata.info/id889.html
By Allan Wall
As a longtime gringo resident of Mexico, I have always enjoyed following Mexican politics, and this presidential election is no exception.
I’ve resided in Mexico since 1991, except for a recent 16-month hiatus when I was called-up to go to Iraq.

From Pacific News Service
'Generation Gringo': Young Americans Moving to Mexico
News Feature, Louis Nevaer,
Pacific News Service, Nov 04, 2003

Editor's Note: Young and middle-aged Americans, spurred by nostalgic memories of Mexican vacations in high school and college, are moving to Mexico, joining with U.S. retirees and changing Mexican cultural and economic life.

MEXICO CITY--In the last decade, an estimated half million Americans moved permanently to Mexico, making the United States' southern neighbor the country with the most U.S. expatriates in the world.

Not since the conclusion of the American Civil War -- when thousands of Southerners emigrated to Mexico -- have so many Americans moved to Mexico.

"A generation ago, older Americans would move to San Miguel, or Lake Chapala, or Mexico City," says Joann Andrews, who has lived in Merida, a large city on the Yucatan peninsula, since the 1950s. "But now, there are Americans setting down roots throughout the entire country. Americans have finally discovered the beauty of their most populous neighbor."

From another site... http://tzurumutaro.blogspot.com/

Tales of Zapata Street (Vol. I)
Herein are astute observations of one Gringo who quit the Texas world of toil in late 1999 and moved to the middle of Mexico, high in the mountains of Michoacán. He wed a lovely señorita, Marta, in 2002. The couple built a hacienda on Zapata Street. It´s in Tzurumútaro, quite near the quaint Colonial town of Pátzcuaro. If this is your first visit, it makes more sense to start at the bottom. Links to other engaging websites, and my email address, are available in the Profile area.

Or a hotel in Xalapa:
Xalapa, Veracruz
"El Gringo Jalapeño"
Roy Dudley, a long-time resident, has a little casita available for short-term rental next to his home in downtown Xalapa.

Or the English Baja publication http://www.gringogazette.com/
The Gringo Gazette covers North and South Baja in two separate editions, each one publishing every other week.

Both editions feature news of local golf, fishing, hotels, car rentals, restaurants, and tourist activities.

The Gringo Gazette also gives the reader insight into living in Baja, as it is read and used by the large expatriate communities.

I found hundreds and hundreds of non-negative usages of the term, mostly by tourist-friendly places all over Mexico.

All of this contradicts your narrow view.

 

[zumahans]

Re: Movin Not Airing Legal I.D.

This just in: Univision radio employees don't think gringo is offensive. Well, button my shorts. What a shock.

"Ya know, here at the Savannah Country Club, well, ever'one just cannot for the life of them understayand how the servants don't want to be called n----r. Why, even the house n-----r calls himself that.

"And that Richard Pryor? He called himself n----r on the TV just the other night.

"You know, if we let them n----rs get that uppity about how WE use OUR language, pretty soon they're just gonna be out of control."

 

[zumahans]

Re: Movin Not Airing Legal I.D.

Bwah hah hah hah. You have got to be pulling my leg.

The man who castigates someone for using a definition from Wikipedia .... now cites Mister Sancho's Restaurant website as a credible source on English usage?

Mister Sancho's Restaurant?

I, for one, would never believe Mister Sancho's website as a a source on English usage. Remember when they totally misused a gerund in a sentence fragment with a split infinitive and dangling participle when describing the pescado borracho combo platter? That had them cracked up at the Oxford English Department.

Hey, Dave, what do those experts down at Mister Sancho's Restaurant's website say about the summer trending for women 25-34 in morning drive dayparts, and their preferences for talk programming?

Q: Why does Dave use experts from Mister Sancho's Restaurant website for commentary on English language usage?

A: Because the Alberto's Muffler Shop website was down this afternoon!

 

[davideduardo]

Re: Movin Not Airing Legal I.D.

This just in: Univision radio employees don't think gringo is offensive. Well, lick my shorts. What a shock.

Seemingly, most gringos in Mexico do not think it is offensive, either. As I said, if there is an English periodical called the Gringo Thimes in Baja, the term might be open to reevaluation by you and the group here who think in thier own minds that they must take offense when they hear it.

BTW, I said "In work situations" and that goes back to the 60's. I did not name one place speci¿fically. And this is a term, in a more enlightened environment, that gringos apply to themselves... such as "Explain to a gringo like me what the diffrerence between salsa and merengue is." Again, I showed you a few citations of how totally inoffensive the word really is, and how gringo expats apply it to themselves, even.

In Argentina, which sees reatively few Unitedstatsians, gringo is applied to Europeans, for example. In Ecuador, it is applied to folks who are fair skinned. In Mexico, it is applied to non-Hispanic North Americans. As mentioned, it is the easiest term, and, lacking another, the most used.

You might look at Carlos Fuentes' "Gringo Viejo" which was the story of Ambrose Berce who went to Mexico... and the basis for the Gregory Peck movie and the brand of boots and western wear of the same name. None of these is derisive, either.

 

[zumahans]

Re: Movin Not Airing Legal I.D.

This just in: Univision radio employees don't think gringo is offensive. Well, lick my shorts. What a shock.

Seemingly, most gringos in Mexico do not think it is offensive, either. As I said, if there is an English periodical called the Gringo Thimes in Baja, the term might be open to reevaluation by you and the group here who think in thier own minds that they must take offense when they hear it.

BTW, I said "In work situations" and that goes back to the 60's. I did not name one place speci¿fically. And this is a term, in a more enlightened environment, that gringos apply to themselves... such as "Explain to a gringo like me what the diffrerence between salsa and merengue is." Again, I showed you a few citations of how totally inoffensive the word really is, and how gringo expats apply it to themselves, even.

In Argentina, which sees reatively few Unitedstatsians, gringo is applied to Europeans, for example. In Ecuador, it is applied to folks who are fair skinned. In Mexico, it is applied to non-Hispanic North Americans. As mentioned, it is the easiest term, and, lacking another, the most used.

You might look at Carlos Fuentes' "Gringo Viejo" which was the story of Ambrose Berce who went to Mexico... and the basis for the Gregory Peck movie and the brand of boots and western wear of the same name. None of these is derisive, either.

Oh, master of English usage, just where exactly did you pick up Unitedstatsians? Mister Sancho's Restaurant website, again?

 

[davideduardo]

Re: Movin Not Airing Legal I.D.

Bwah hah hah hah. You have got to be pulling my leg.

You and your thinking are so obtuse you missed the point... I cited a bunch of examples of the use of "gringo" in Mexico where the term was obviously not offensive and, in many cases, used by gringos themselves.

Instead, you find fault with the use of English on a menu by someone who obviously does not have English as the first language. That is condescending, to say the least.

 

[davideduardo]

Re: Movin Not Airing Legal I.D.

Oh, master of English usage, just where exactly did you pick up Unitedstatsians? Mister Sancho's Restaurant website, again?

I made it up, to show that there is literally no easy term other than gringo for folks to use to distinguish between Hispanics and Non-Hispanic Whites in the Northern Hemisphere. Maybe we should call them NHWITNW... or "Nahwhitnews." Sounds downright catchy, don't it cletus?

I will stick with "gringo" as it is not offensive, says exactly what is meant, and is understood clearly by the folks I deal with.

If you want an insult, try "gabacho" on for size. The fact that such a word has to exist means that the "g" word is not offensive.