PPM numbers for WABC right-wing talkers are down. Except for the average age of the audience. Even Rush's numbers are down (despite an election last November). Beck and Hannity are "flat-lining." Talk programmers are starting to notice. To paraphrase Edward G. Robinson: "Mother of Mercy, is this the end of Rushbo?"John Avlon said:
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Right-Wing Talk is Dying: PPM Numbers Don't Lie
- Thread starter MattParker
- Start date
MattParker said:
Michael Savage talked about this last night. He said hosts are going to have to diversify their topics. What is Glenn Beck going to talk about other than how there is a conspiracy to fudge the numbers that his show is down. What is El Rushbo and Wallbanger going to talk about that is different? Once you heard one of thier shows, you heard them all. Wallbanger can talk about how Sarah Palin makes him a horn dog and that is about it.
Hey, look, it's this thread again.
Nobody's supposed to advertise on PBS silly! ;D
Let's deal with some real facts.
First, in most markets now using People Meters, all commercial talk stations are down. That's true of conservative, liberal or those few locally programmed stations that are still middle-of-the-road.
Let's look at Houston where 740 KTRH runs all the big conservative talkers: Rush, Hannity, Beck. They're down substantially from their diary numbers. Same for 610 WIOD Miami, 600 KOGO San Diego, 930 WFLA Tampa, all down by half their diary numbers.
How about the once highest rated progressive talk station in the U.S., carrying Thom Hartmann, Ed Schultz, Randi Rhodes, etc., 620 KPOJ Portland. They're down so low, they're not even getting a one share. But the conservative station in Portland, KEX, is also down substantially from it's numbers during diary ratings, too.
How about locally programmed talk stations like KGO San Francisco, KMOX St. Louis, KDKA Pittsburgh, WCCO Minneapolis, etc. They're down. Even some talk stations that moved to FM or got an FM simulcast, such as KIRO Seattle, KTAR Phoenix, WBAP Ft. Worth are down.
So what's up? It turns out in SOME markets, NPR stations are doing much better than we ever thought. That's not true in most of the South, Southwest and smaller markets. But in many big markets, NPR may be the top talk station.
Also doing very well in the dozen markets where they exist...Al News stations. Are Americans getting tired of being told what to think and want a station that just gives them the facts (and traffic and weather together every ten minutes)? Even if you think NPR has a liberal bias, most of the time they stick to a news and magazine format (Morning Editon, All Things Considered) or having guests with different points of view (Diane Rehm, Talk of the Nation) or non-political talk (Fresh Air, Car Talk).
I wonder if the time has come for non-partisan talk. Very middle of the road. Micahel Smerconish and Jim Bohannan may be the only syndicated hosts doing that.. although their ratings aren't exactly stellar. Or maybe talk that doesn't deal with politics much.. like how to find a good college for your kid or how not to get ripped off at your car repair garage. Nearly all talk stations are always talking about politics but do Americans only want to discuss politics?
Gregg
[email protected]
First, in most markets now using People Meters, all commercial talk stations are down. That's true of conservative, liberal or those few locally programmed stations that are still middle-of-the-road.
Let's look at Houston where 740 KTRH runs all the big conservative talkers: Rush, Hannity, Beck. They're down substantially from their diary numbers. Same for 610 WIOD Miami, 600 KOGO San Diego, 930 WFLA Tampa, all down by half their diary numbers.
How about the once highest rated progressive talk station in the U.S., carrying Thom Hartmann, Ed Schultz, Randi Rhodes, etc., 620 KPOJ Portland. They're down so low, they're not even getting a one share. But the conservative station in Portland, KEX, is also down substantially from it's numbers during diary ratings, too.
How about locally programmed talk stations like KGO San Francisco, KMOX St. Louis, KDKA Pittsburgh, WCCO Minneapolis, etc. They're down. Even some talk stations that moved to FM or got an FM simulcast, such as KIRO Seattle, KTAR Phoenix, WBAP Ft. Worth are down.
So what's up? It turns out in SOME markets, NPR stations are doing much better than we ever thought. That's not true in most of the South, Southwest and smaller markets. But in many big markets, NPR may be the top talk station.
Also doing very well in the dozen markets where they exist...Al News stations. Are Americans getting tired of being told what to think and want a station that just gives them the facts (and traffic and weather together every ten minutes)? Even if you think NPR has a liberal bias, most of the time they stick to a news and magazine format (Morning Editon, All Things Considered) or having guests with different points of view (Diane Rehm, Talk of the Nation) or non-political talk (Fresh Air, Car Talk).
I wonder if the time has come for non-partisan talk. Very middle of the road. Micahel Smerconish and Jim Bohannan may be the only syndicated hosts doing that.. although their ratings aren't exactly stellar. Or maybe talk that doesn't deal with politics much.. like how to find a good college for your kid or how not to get ripped off at your car repair garage. Nearly all talk stations are always talking about politics but do Americans only want to discuss politics?
Gregg
[email protected]
Talk stations in a number of markets have dropped right wing syndie talk to go more local. WPHT Philadelphia is an example, having dropped Beck and Hannity and beefing up local programming. 'PHT did keep Rush.
In NY, WABC's lineup hasn't changed. Their NJ numbers are quite strong. WOR dropped Beck and replaced him with Mike Gallagher, one syndie for another. It's still shocking that Salem's WNYM now offers more local programming than their two big brothers!
In NY, WABC's lineup hasn't changed. Their NJ numbers are quite strong. WOR dropped Beck and replaced him with Mike Gallagher, one syndie for another. It's still shocking that Salem's WNYM now offers more local programming than their two big brothers!
Gregg said:
This stuff has been around for decades. It's the mainstay of brokered radio, which ought to tell you it's not sustainable on its own.
semoochie said:
Wrong! Don't believe everything Rush tells you.
semoochie said:
Wrong. Notice that talk radio with controversial hosts did operate successfully in major and large markets with controversial and incendiary hosts (Joe Pyne, Wally George, Bob Grant... et al). These hosts were very visible and nobody attempted to crack down on them using the fairness doctrine. What changed things was not the fairness doctrine (which applied to editorials, not talk shows); it was syndication. Live syndication which made the format affordable for stations outside the major markets. What made syndication feasible was satellite connections (better sound quality and lower cost than phone lines) and improved long distance calling (again better sound quality and lower cost).
The fact that people keep ranting about the fairness doctrine only shows that: (1) Talk show hosts lie. (2) Their listeners are gullible enough to believe them.
Even if the fairness doctrine were restored, it wouldn't curtail right-wing talk radio. They know it. They only use this fake issue to rouse the rabble. Demagogues have always needed threats and enemies to scare the fearful and agitate the angry.
What did I just say? ...except for a few pockets. You just named the pockets! My former employer was very careful about keeping his hosts from being too one sided, so as to avoid being sued or fined. There was a list on the wall, with some of the words that stations had been sued over because one of their hosts or callers had used them.
Far from all of them... talk radio was also big in the eighties in several Florida markets. In Miami it was in double digits. Many cities that did not have full time talk stations had AM music stations that featured a talk show at night. These often were number one or two in their dayparts.
Getting "sued" over "words" is a matter of libel/slander, not the Fairness Doctrine. Libel/slander suits against media personalities continue to this day. With rare exceptions, the only words that ever drew fines were in indecency cases.
semoochie said:
I named the best known "pockets." I did not name all the pockets. How about Flint, Michigan?
And Smedge is absolutely correct. And before anybody else adds another source of confusion, the fairness doctrine is NOT the same as the equal time rule, which is still in effect.
I think this discussion is falling off the tracks. Let's try to get it back on.
First, Talk has always been an important format on radio. Many AM stations that dominated their local ratings specialized in Talk but didn't do it full time. They played a few MOR or Soft AC songs each hour during the day in between the news, DJ chatter, interviews, sports and weather. Then they went all talk at night: WOR, WGN, WBZ, KDKA, WJR, WSB, KMOX, KOA, KTAR, WCCO, WIOD, etc. Talk was not a niche format. It was a staple of most powerhouse AM stations.
The talk was usually balanced and only some of it had to do with national politics. We knew the political leanings of the hosts. Most stations had one or two liberals, one or two conservatives and one or two moderates on the schedule. Some stations to save a few bucks aired one national talk show each overnight... Larry King. We knew he leaned a bit left but had guests and callers of all stripes on the air.
As FM became the band for music, AM gradually scaled back the music and started going all-talk. At the same time, Rush started gaining plenty of listeners as a national talk show. Then Rush clones poppped up. Stations realized they could greatly save money by airing Rush and his copy cats . After all, if you associate Rush with a specific radio station, that shation should go all-conservaitve, just like some FM stations are all Top 40 or Soft Hits.
Rush didn'te invent talk radio. KABC LA and KGO San Francisco were consistant top stations in their markets with a mostly liberal line up of hosts, although they also had moderates and conservatives too. But with the introduction of People Meters, it seems Talk as a format, be it conservative, liberal or middle of the road, seems to have dropped.
Gregg
[email protected]
First, Talk has always been an important format on radio. Many AM stations that dominated their local ratings specialized in Talk but didn't do it full time. They played a few MOR or Soft AC songs each hour during the day in between the news, DJ chatter, interviews, sports and weather. Then they went all talk at night: WOR, WGN, WBZ, KDKA, WJR, WSB, KMOX, KOA, KTAR, WCCO, WIOD, etc. Talk was not a niche format. It was a staple of most powerhouse AM stations.
The talk was usually balanced and only some of it had to do with national politics. We knew the political leanings of the hosts. Most stations had one or two liberals, one or two conservatives and one or two moderates on the schedule. Some stations to save a few bucks aired one national talk show each overnight... Larry King. We knew he leaned a bit left but had guests and callers of all stripes on the air.
As FM became the band for music, AM gradually scaled back the music and started going all-talk. At the same time, Rush started gaining plenty of listeners as a national talk show. Then Rush clones poppped up. Stations realized they could greatly save money by airing Rush and his copy cats . After all, if you associate Rush with a specific radio station, that shation should go all-conservaitve, just like some FM stations are all Top 40 or Soft Hits.
Rush didn'te invent talk radio. KABC LA and KGO San Francisco were consistant top stations in their markets with a mostly liberal line up of hosts, although they also had moderates and conservatives too. But with the introduction of People Meters, it seems Talk as a format, be it conservative, liberal or middle of the road, seems to have dropped.
Gregg
[email protected]
Thanks Gregg for getting this discussion back on track.
For years, even before PPM, talk stations had older demographics. Ask talk PDs what their target demographic was, and they'd say 35-54. It's not that they didn't want adults 25 or even 18 years old, they knew they wouldn't get many of them.
We're 20 years now after Rush really took off. So, those people who were 35-54 then are now 55-74 ... not a desirable demographic to ad agencies. I know, it doesn't make sense that ad agencies don't want 55+ listeners, but that's the way it is. I'm 47, and I'm not looking forward to being ignored by radio when I turn 50 or 55.
Could it be that the generations that followed the Boomers aren't interested in talk radio in general? I'm not talking about the subject matter or political tilt of the show. I'm talking about the format.
Talk radio has a real opportunity with PPM. If you have a host, local or national, who is hugely popular in your coverage area, you can get a lot of people to listen for three hours at a time without button pushing like people do with FM radio when there's a song they don't like.
My opinion: The problem is, stations haven't identified talk show hosts who appeal to people younger than the Boomers ... right now the youngest Boomers are 46. And if local stations are going to continue with syndicated programming that fills 20 to 24 hours of every broadcast day, they're not going to find those hosts.
For years, even before PPM, talk stations had older demographics. Ask talk PDs what their target demographic was, and they'd say 35-54. It's not that they didn't want adults 25 or even 18 years old, they knew they wouldn't get many of them.
We're 20 years now after Rush really took off. So, those people who were 35-54 then are now 55-74 ... not a desirable demographic to ad agencies. I know, it doesn't make sense that ad agencies don't want 55+ listeners, but that's the way it is. I'm 47, and I'm not looking forward to being ignored by radio when I turn 50 or 55.
Could it be that the generations that followed the Boomers aren't interested in talk radio in general? I'm not talking about the subject matter or political tilt of the show. I'm talking about the format.
Talk radio has a real opportunity with PPM. If you have a host, local or national, who is hugely popular in your coverage area, you can get a lot of people to listen for three hours at a time without button pushing like people do with FM radio when there's a song they don't like.
My opinion: The problem is, stations haven't identified talk show hosts who appeal to people younger than the Boomers ... right now the youngest Boomers are 46. And if local stations are going to continue with syndicated programming that fills 20 to 24 hours of every broadcast day, they're not going to find those hosts.
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