Right-Wing Talk is Dying: PPM Numbers Don't Lie

[TheBigA]

There was a time when the industry was creative and responded to changes in public interest, in public taste and in the competitive environment. No more. The industry insist on hanging on to this type of talk apparently until Rush has become a tree falling in an empty forest.

I don't think the industry is hanging on to "bombast," but they do seem to feel that conservative talk is more likely to succeed than any other kind of news talk. I'm not hearing of a lot of new bombatic types. And meanwhile, I see Glenn Beck just got dropped in Madison Wisconsin.

 

[DonTheTrucker]

I don't think the industry is hanging on to "bombast," but they do seem to feel that conservative talk is more likely to succeed than any other kind of news talk.

Kind of hard to argue against the track record. The answer to getting a younger audience isn't to abandon what works, but to present what works in a way that appeals to younger people.

 

[MattParker]

I don't think the industry is hanging on to "bombast," but they do seem to feel that conservative talk is more likely to succeed than any other kind of news talk.

Kind of hard to argue against the track record. The answer to getting a younger audience isn't to abandon what works, but to present what works in a way that appeals to younger people.

The people who own and manage local radio are mostly Babbits and they hang out with fellow Babbits at the country club. The preponderance of conservative talk reflects their bias. How do we know conservative talk radio succeeds; because they tell us so. How do we know progressive talk radio won't; because they say it won't. Yes, they put progressive talk on a few weak sticks (often briefly) and then they say, "See it doesn't work. This isn't about politics, just money." How do you tell a radio manager is lying? His lips are moving.

And what is the track record? The audience keeps getting smaller and older. If insanity is continuing to take the same actions while expecting a different outcome, broadcasters are beyond insane: They are in denial about the outcome. Talk radio hasn't done anything new or remotely original since 1988, when Rush went into syndication. Now he is no longer new or original and neither are any of his clones.

 

[semoochie]

"The answer to getting a younger audience isn't to abandon what works, but to present what works in a way that appeals to younger people." Let's pretend it's 1957 and you want your playing of Frank Sinatra records to appeal to younger people. How is that working out for you?

 

[MattParker]

"The answer to getting a younger audience isn't to abandon what works, but to present what works in a way that appeals to younger people." Let's pretend it's 1957 and you want your playing of Frank Sinatra records to appeal to younger people. How is that working out for you?

Frank Sinatra was regularly and frequently on top 40 playlists in 1957. In fact about 2/3rds of the cuts on top 40 playlists were also on MOR playlists (and vice versa).

 

[del_griffith]

Probably the better example than Frank Sinatra would be:

It's 1957 and you're planning to not only sustain your existing audience but attract a younger audience by playing Amos & Andy, Fibber McGee & Molly, Jimmy Durante, Phil Harris and any music played would be Glenn Miller, Tommy Dorsey, and Benny Goodman.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

Probably the better example than Frank Sinatra would be:

It's 1957 and you're planning to not only sustain your existing audience but attract a younger audience by playing Amos & Andy, Fibber McGee & Molly, Jimmy Durante, Phil Harris and any music played would be Glenn Miller, Tommy Dorsey, and Benny Goodman.

I remember 1957 very well. I remember starting a brand new job on LABOR DAY 1957 and at the top of the program log Minnie out in the front office had typed at the top of page 1 in bold letters: "It's LABOR Day alright!!!!" I don't remember any Amos & Andy, Fibber McGee &Molly, Kimmy Durante and Phil Harris being part of our schedule except when someone decided to do it as a NOVELTY to appease the older audience with a memory BLAST FROM THE PAST. I don't remember Phil Harris being mainstream at that late date. We played considerable Golenn Miller, Dorsey Brothers and a little bit of Goodman. But I think we were playing Everly Brothers and Elvis and it was either 1957 or 1958 when the Big Bopper was proclaiming the attraction of "a giggle in her talk and a wiggle in her walk"... which is what we played to reach the younger audience.

 

[MattParker]

In 1957 Amos n' Andy (and the Kingfish) had become DJs. Fibber McGee and Molly were doing five minute bits for Monitor. The Dorsey Brothers had recently charted with "So Rare." Glenn Miller had been dead for 13 years. Durante was doing TV variety shows. Phil Harris' "The Thing" continued to receive air play.

But most stations were worried about reaching a mass audience, not a younger one, and were still able to do it. Rating services didn't provide audience demographics so nobody worried about them.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

Rating services didn't provide audience demographics so nobody worried about them.

From the general time frame I remember a station in Little Rock that ran a contest with a pretty nice prize and the only way you could enter the contest was to send your answer/your entry via a Western Union telegram.

A month later there was a big "We're Number One" on air promo and toward the end of all the puffery was a documentation: "Western Union reports that we receive more telegrams that all other stations in Little Rock combined".

I also remember it was to long after that era that the FCC (and maybe the FTC?) issued rules that attempted to put the beginning of some integrity into ratings services.


One of the other popular "survey on the cheap" methodologies of the era was to work with a car dealer to get the Service Writers to compile a list of what stations the car radios were tuned to that came in for service. How's that for scientific accuracy?

 

[semoochie]

I mentioned "Frank Sinatra" to define a genre. I'm aware that he was popular in the 50s. Just how popular he remained with teens, in 1957, I cannot say. There was a lot of 50s Pop remaining on the radio, mostly for adults. This was just intended as a correlation, to get my point across, not anything specific.

 

[del_griffith]

Understood about the correlation. Some folks wanted to drive home that Old Blue Eyes still had some chart toppers. And it was the same with the OTR references I made.

There were a lot of formats making money in the late 50's through the mid 50's doing what are now identified as standards. But those standards weren't enticing younger demos just like OTR.

Political talk radio is going through a similar problem. It is appealing more and more to an older demo. Part of that is the listeners have been graying with the genre. A big portion of that is that it is mostly on AM. It seems the same shows on FM trend younger, but the format in general is still missing enticing the gen X and gen Y potential listener.

 

[semoochie]

Country began appealing to a gaggle of young women through "Pop Country". Maybe, that's the answer: Program Talk, aimed squarely at 18-44 Women. They do it at night on AC and Hot AC stations.

 

[MattParker]

One of the other popular "survey on the cheap" methodologies of the era was to work with a car dealer to get the Service Writers to compile a list of what stations the car radios were tuned to that came in for service. How's that for scientific accuracy?

Potentially, not bad. Certainly better than diaries. If.... you stipulate you are measuring in car listening and not workplace listening or home listening. And if... you get dealers representing a range of makes and models to participate. What Ford customers are listening to may not be the same as what Volvo, VW or Buick customers listen to. I'd also record the pre-sets and even what loaners are tuned to when they come back. And I'd have supervisors do random checks of what mechanics write down (some mechanic might decide to "help" his favorite station). This could be most useful for the dealer deciding which station(s) to buy to reach his kind of customer.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

I'd also record the pre-sets and even what loaners are tuned to when they come back. And I'd have supervisors do random checks of what mechanics write down (some mechanic might decide to "help" his favorite station). This could be most useful for the dealer deciding which station(s) to buy to reach his kind of customer.

Helping the dealer decide where to put PART of his/her ad budget is about the only legitimate value of the "tuned radio survey". The flaw is: What other station or media does the dealer need to use to reach potential customers who have "tastes" that cause them to NOT listen to these same stations.

I developed and learned my "chops" on computers (what little skills I actually have in that field) while serving as a System Administrator for a HUMONGOUS dealership group. Once I got all the pesky, easy to fix little bugs and bad wire connections out of the system I had some discretionary time to sit and sort our customer data base every which direction looking for trends as easy to spot as "what radio station are they listening to?".

Want to know if your dealer is sensitive to the wants and needs of a customer? When you have your car repaired or serviced, and you have gone to the cashier window and settled up and you are given the keys, if you a using a GOOD dealer, when you get into the car the radio will be turned off and the volume turned down, and it likely will still be tuned to the station you were listening to when you drove in and dropped the car off.

GOOD dealers instruct the technicians (a.k.a. 'mechanics' ) to not listen to the radio in customer cars unless they are troubleshooting the radio.

 

[MattParker]

Helping the dealer decide where to put PART of his/her ad budget is about the only legitimate value of the "tuned radio survey". The flaw is: What other station or media does the dealer need to use to reach potential customers who have "tastes" that cause them to NOT listen to these same stations.

One of the things format radio is good at is targeting specific market clusters. People who listen to stations other than what your customers listen to are not likely to be your customers (or at least not customers from name plates you sell). Claritas Clusters also show that dealers should be keeping track of zip codes where customers live. Geo-demographics is probably as good a predictor as Format-demographics. Of course, few businesses get to check their customers' radios.

Back when we had commercial classical music stations, the ones I had occasion to hear seemed to run a lot of spots for Volvo dealers. Funny Volvo dealers don't "support" classical public radio stations the same way. Chevy Volt has been buying time (including host endorsements) on Stephanie Miller but I've haven't heard "green cars" running spots (underwriting announcements) on public radio.

 

[DonTheTrucker]

Political talk radio is going through a similar problem. It is appealing more and more to an older demo. Part of that is the listeners have been graying with the genre. A big portion of that is that it is mostly on AM. It seems the same shows on FM trend younger, but the format in general is still missing enticing the gen X and gen Y potential listener.

This is the $64,000 question. The lack of any kind of farm system, and the unwillingness of current guys to give up their positions, the growth of syndicated programming all have a hand in this problem.

I think there is a major hole in the talk radio industry as a whole, just waiting to be filled with younger hosts that can do the same thing the present guys are doing now, but in a much younger sounding way.

A good example of this would be our friend Ian and Free Talk Live. Those guys may not fit in some formats, but there's no denying that they do a smart and young sounding show.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

I think there is a major hole in the talk radio industry as a whole, just waiting to be filled with younger hosts that can do the same thing the present guys are doing now, but in a much younger sounding way.

A good example of this would be our friend Ian and Free Talk Live. Those guys may not fit in some formats, but there's no denying that they do a smart and young sounding show.

I agree with your observation.... with one minor but possibly important change in terminology.

Instead of saying "do the same thing the present guys are doing now, but in a much younger sounding way" try rolling that around in your mind with "but in a contemporary sounding way. If the host is 23 years old and has what I have heard called "the cracked voice of FM announcers" but he is delivering the same logic and terminology of today's graying crowd of talkers... the problem has not been solved.

When you are twenty five years old, driving down the road listening to a voice on the radio, it is often hard to discern that age of the person speaking. When I was doing it, we worked hard at trying to sound older than we were in hopes of gaining credibility. When you are in the business and you are pushing sixty and doing some kind of comb-over hair-do to deny the creeping baldness, you learn vocal tricks with the microphone to keep your voice from betraying your age. So younger sounding voice may not be the most desirable definition of what needs to happen.

 

[mescutia]

I think there is a major hole in the talk radio industry as a whole, just waiting to be filled with younger hosts that can do the same thing the present guys are doing now, but in a much younger sounding way.

It's already being filled, just not on traditional radio. There are a quite a number of streaming talk "radio" shows out there. And, of course, there's the available-for-download aspect, otherwise known as podcasts.

 

[DonTheTrucker]

Instead of saying "do the same thing the present guys are doing now, but in a much younger sounding way" try rolling that around in your mind with "but in a contemporary sounding way. If the host is 23 years old and has what I have heard called "the cracked voice of FM announcers" but he is delivering the same logic and terminology of today's graying crowd of talkers... the problem has not been solved.

If the problem is that the current group of guys is too stodgy, I'd agree. If the only problem with the current group is their political bent, I'd heartily disagree. There are young people of all political stripes, just as there are older people of differing bents. I think the young conservative demo is greatly underserved, and not just on radio. Where is a conservative version of Jon Stewart's show? Several attempts have been made with sub-par talent.

What you end up with is a bunch of 25 year olds listening to a guy who has been in radio as long as they've been alive. No wonder young people don't listen to the radio anymore. Give them something to associate with, and they'll listen.

 

[DaveBayArea]

The other big thing that has changed is the nature of PPM and incidental listening. The radio at the bank (while you wait 15 minutes for a teller) is tuned to the soft rock station. The radio at the clothing store is tuned to the local CHR station. The radio at the diner is tuned to the country station. The coffee shop is tuned to the local AAA station, etc. I have yet to come across somebody playing Rush in a public place. Have you?

Dave B.