Rivendell and Linux: any experience?

[richard.vanderveen]

I have been looking at Rivendell Automation for quite a while now and i must admit: It looks good technically, it has been around for some time now, there seems to be a large community and the Linux OS is (said to be) the best. So I thought: "Let's give it a try..." Warning: I am a windows guy! But hey, I like learning new stuff, found a great Rivendell manual and a rocksolid OS-with-Rivendell download (Ubuntu 10.4) so off I went. Installing is a breeze, Linux is up and running and so is Rivendell. Or is it?

For the last few days I have been trying to install a soundcard (Digigram VX222v2) but it seems there is just no easy way to do this! Like I said, I like to learn stuff but I feel I am in way over my head. I've been googling my ass off and every hit is about commandline stuff, compiling, kernels and modules. And I still have no sound!

So now I've switched to the Paravel download (CentOS and Rivendell) and that looks fantastic. Initial installation: again, a breeze. But still no sound. I don't know who these people are that claim that Lunux is now for regular users as well but before I will burn everything during a most satisfying ceremony I would like to now if it's me or if there really is no easier way to Linux?

 

[chriscollins]

I briefly played with this too. I use linux a little (the internet vm's in my control room are linux). I am not a big fan. I'll take Win7.

With that aside, most of what I read on the Rivendell project spoke of AudioScience Cards. They have an active Linux driver & development for it. You would probably have an easier time using a cheap ASI card.

 

[streamer]

There is an active email list for Rivendell, I would set yourself up on that. I have running well on Ubuntu 10.2 with a Delta 1010LT card using Jack as opposed to ALSA (ALSA worked fine too).

It was a steep learning curve but I cracked though and it works extremely well now. There are a few on the list with 24x7 mission critical environments etc.

 

[richard.vanderveen]

It was a steep learning curve but I cracked though and it works extremely well now.

Yeah... I expected that much. The Rivendell software is well thought through. I really like the filosofy and functionality.

So today I dumped the Digigram and put in an M-audiocard. CentOS recognized it, I could add it in Rivendell and... still no audio. So i fired up my other testsystem that runs on Ubuntu. It is now nagging me about not being able to start deamons... I would really love to use Rivendell but like I stated before: every piece of info about Linux is just too complicated. There is no learning curve whatsoever. Why develop a GUI if it can only be used for the most basic stuff? Why can't I simply install a driver or a piece of software?

 

[JamieD]

I have been using it for 3 years with an M-audio Delta 66 and it works great. I'm not sure that Digigram has any linux drivers or support. When you first start, it is a little frustrating to get everything working and throwing an unfamiliar OS into the mix doesn't help much, but it is worth the effort. Join the e-mail list and ask lots of questions. There are many people on there that are happy to help including the developers. The Wiki can be helpful, but some of the info there is outdated. There is also an IRC channel on irc.freenode.net where you can often get real time help with a problem. The room is just called rivendell. On to your no audio problem. I'm going to assume at this point you are using alsa and not jack. If you installed the RRAbuntu CD it uses alsa. I run it under Ubuntu and haven't used CentOS so my suggestions are based on Ubuntu. First run RDadmin and find the box for audio resources. When you click it at the bottom of the list it will show supported cards that are installed. Your M-audio card should be listed there. If your card is listed under audio resources in RDAdmin you can skip this step. If it isn't, open a terminal and type "sudo rdalsaconfig" without the quotes. You will have to enter you root password. It will open a small GUI to configure the cards. The top box will show what is installed in Ubuntu and the bottom box will show what is configured for Rivendell. Simply highlight the devices you want to use in the top box and hit the arrow to move them to the bottom. Then click save or exit. Next make sure the levels are on and turned up. In the same terminal type "alsamixer" Or "sudo alsamixer". This will open a utility that will allow you to adjust the audio levels on the card. Select the correct card if there is more than one installed. I would start by turning everything up and once you have audio playing you can reopen this to adjust them to your preference. Save and exit. You should restart the daemons or just reboot and then check audio resources again to make sure your card is now listed. If it is it will have a card # next to it you can use to configure outputs using RDadmin.

There are a few other things that could cause this, but I would start with this.

Sorry I can't help much with CentOS. I have never used it.

 

[Charlie]

Do either of the Live CDs produce audio on your system? If they do, it may be worth seeing what config settings they have. Sadly, I don't have much experience with Rivendell aside from trying the Live CD a few year's back - It does look quite easy to use but as many people have discovered, throwing Linux into the mix can be quite troublesome!

...and stations have enough trouble with Windows machines. Oh, wait

 

[Studio1]

I would use Linux but it's a pain in the *** to do anything. In Windows it's "just download and install this" instead of spending four months wading through forums trying to find some kernel patch to get your wireless card, sound card, webcam or something simple like that working (as OP has detailed with his issues on the Digigram card).

Having said that, I know of a station which started back in 2009, running Rivendell under Linux - and the computer it's running on has not been shut down once since then. Nor has it crashed or done anything weird.

 

[richard.vanderveen]

I would use Linux but it's a pain in the *** to do anything. In Windows it's "just download and install this" instead of spending four months wading through forums trying to find some kernel patch to get your wireless card, sound card, webcam or something simple like that working

True, true... The Live-CD's are a great help, but it still takes way more time and effort than any Windows (or Mac) solution I know. And than I still can't get it working and that frustrates the **** out of me. It is a shame because, like I said, Rivendell looks really good to me. I'd love to test it properly :-\

 

[fugazi]

Hi Richard,

It works like a charm, but it does not have a graphic mix editor like Radiohost or Dalet.
This is a big lack of functionality for me.
I used to run it under ubuntu linux. However, it's ment to run on Suse as i can recollect. It does however runs on Ubuntu.


Evert

 

[DudeFan]

Stick with it. Once you get used to Linux/Ubuntu it is a great OS. But yes, getting audio to work under Rivendell is a bit of a pain in the ass.

 

[secondchoice]

The phone companies that use the old Lucent / Western Electric 5E switches run a program that is very close to Linux (Unuix IIRC). These switches are bill as ("six nines) 99.9999% reliable. Linux is a rock solid operating system. The real problem is most people do not "know" Linux. There are a few tech schools that teach Linux. These schools are a good source for Linux help. Linux is really a set it up and forget it operating system. The setting up can be a bear.

 

[test123]

The most recent version of Rivendell prefers CentOS.

This past spring a network I look after decided to go with Rivendell as a playout system for a number of reasons. Mainly due to the fact that Fred Gleason, the developer of Rivendell and Chief Engineer of RadioAmerica had gone through the process of making the system work with Citadel Media's X-Digital Copy Splitting system.

We installed 2 servers, 4 networked workstations and a standalone workstation. Even though Rivendell is open source we paid Paravel Systems to build the workstations and perform the installation.

I have no Linux experience at all. That was a little bit of a concern. Once the system is up and running the operation is extremely familiar. Production is done on Windows machines using Adobe Audition. Files are easily transferred to the Rivendell across the network and imported using RD Library.

I could not be more pleased with this system.

t123

 

[gtomas]

I was also looking at Rivendell, but like others I'm a bit put off by the need for the Linux expertise. I'm curious though, what kind of scheduling capabilities does Rivendell have?


Regards,
Goran Tomas

 

[JamieD]

I was also looking at Rivendell, but like others I'm a bit put off by the need for the Linux expertise. I'm curious though, what kind of scheduling capabilities does Rivendell have?

It has a basic internal scheduler. All audio and macros are in 'carts'. You create events that can play a specific cart or can pick one randomly from a group. It supports scheduler codes, day parting, hard start times, or wait to start. It also supports voice tracking, but no internet voice tracking yet. You use events to create clocks. You could create 1 and use it for every hour, or create one for each hour. There is a grid where you pick which clock will be used for each hour. You can set artist and title seperation. You can generate logs manually or do it automatically with a cron job. It also supports external music and traffic scheduling programs, if you prefer to use something use. There is also a program that can automatically record audio from sat feeds or download programs.

 

[chriscollins]

I was also looking at Rivendell, but like others I'm a bit put off by the need for the Linux expertise. I'm curious though, what kind of scheduling capabilities does Rivendell have?

It has a basic internal scheduler. All audio and macros are in 'carts'. You create events that can play a specific cart or can pick one randomly from a group. It supports scheduler codes, day parting, hard start times, or wait to start. It also supports voice tracking, but no internet voice tracking yet. You use events to create clocks. You could create 1 and use it for every hour, or create one for each hour. There is a grid where you pick which clock will be used for each hour. You can set artist and title seperation. You can generate logs manually or do it automatically with a cron job. It also supports external music and traffic scheduling programs, if you prefer to use something use. There is also a program that can automatically record audio from sat feeds or download programs.

It sounds as complex as setting up Linux. I really can't see the allure here. If you want a budget system, get a Simian with almost no learning curve. Your TIME is worth money.

Next up, would be BE and Prophet for me.

If you are an LPFM, etc... Station Playlist would be good.

 

[DudeFan]

The appeal of Rivendell is that once you have it set up and running, it really is an appliance. You aren't constantly patching the OS or conducting upgrades or dealing with Windows "quirks." Yes, you can strip down Windows and achieve the same thing, but an OS like Centos or Ubuntu is really pretty much set it and forget it. Our phone system runs on CentOS. It hasn't rebooted or burped with the exception of an extended power failure. You can't say that for Windows.

 

[richard.vanderveen]

but an OS like Centos or Ubuntu is really pretty much set it and forget it. You can't say that for Windows.

But windows is muuuuuuuuuuuuch easier to set up.
The time it takes to get Linux up to your specs, IF you can get there at all, you could have.... (fill in yourself) ;D
But again: Rivendell is impressive!

 

[chriscollins]

No modern Automation box is updated on a regular basis... Most are secured heavily. For that matter, Linux passes down far more updates that Windows does. The only people I see using things like this are the people who just have some problem with either Microsoft or commercial software.

As a matter of fact, Windows is secure now to the point that almost all the exploits are after apps (like Adobe), which shouldn't even be on an automation box. Watch the wave of Viruses & Malware that are about to hit Android.

There is no point in subjecting yourself to doing this unless you just want to be able to say 'I automated a station on Linux'.

 

[Ryan Williams]

No modern Automation box is updated on a regular basis... Most are secured heavily. For that matter, Linux passes down far more updates that Windows does. The only people I see using things like this are the people who just have some problem with either Microsoft or commercial software.

As a matter of fact, Windows is secure now to the point that almost all the exploits are after apps (like Adobe), which shouldn't even be on an automation box. Watch the wave of Viruses & Malware that are about to hit Android.

There is no point in subjecting yourself to doing this unless you just want to be able to say 'I automated a station on Linux'.

One of the most uninformed posts in a long time.

 

[fugazi]

But windows is muuuuuuuuuuuuch easier to set up

False!! This is an anxient thought. This was the case in the past.
But, with latest Ubuntu installing is easy as one two three. Look at the Wubi installer which installs Ubuntu in an NTFS or FAT(32) partition in a directory.
It leaves everything intact, without modifying partitions or whatever. There is also no bootloader installed and works via the original windows bootloader.

Wubi is the way to go.

BR

Evert