SOMEONE SHOULD CONSIDER CREATING A MUSIC STATION FOR SENIORS 50 AND OVER

[doowopvault]

Tell me George, what can listeners do that are low income, who cannot afford a Computer? and the way the economy is today, with more and more people falling into poverty, or having to take part time jobs, on unemployment or having their unemployment run out, seems to me terrestrial radio should be giving people more choices, to win listeners back.

The problem there is that the people you mentioned don't have the income. The ad buyers want to target people with money. They could care less about those without or with low incomes.
[/quote]



No, isn't true. They do have income, the point is, young people have more thoughtless, irresponsible spending habits, which is why they market their expensive, useless crap to younger people. Plus, which is why stations play all the crap you hear, this allows them to sell very expensive advertising time to these businesses.

 

[Fakeem]

[/quote]

Plus....as with Oldies 98.1, what they call "Oldies" is up for debate!!.

[/quote]

When was the last time they called themselves "Oldies 98"? Had to be at least 10 years ago. I think they been trying to NOT market themselves that way. They don't want that stigma.

 

[fmradio1]

DooWop, saying that all advertisers want younger listeners because of "reckless spending habits" is simply crap. Many younger folks buy cars, furniture, houses and other major purchases that are within their income limits every day. The reality is, most big ticket advertisers want to sell financing for high ticket items. The 55+ crowd doesn't fit their target group. They pay for items in cash, finance it themselves through long held credit cards, or get lower percentage rates. There's simply not enough money to be made on them. Furthermore, agencies want to build brand loyalty. If they can get consumers to use their brands early, in their 20's and 30's, they hope they will be repeat customers for the next 40 years. For the 55+ listener, their habits are well set. It's difficult to persuade them to try a new product. Lastly, this new generation of retirees coming up will not have the amount of disposable income as the one before it. Most of them will have very little retirement savings, and their money will be spent on the basics, with little left over for discretionary spending. Obviously, not everyone fits this particular scenario, but it will be more common with the senior population over the next 20-30 years. It's not that RADIO shuns older listeners, it's the advertisers that buy the airtime that do. Once that attitude begins to change, you won't see too many older-skewing radio stations, except for low powered or fringe signals.

 

[doowopvault]

DooWop, saying that all advertisers want younger listeners because of "reckless spending habits" is simply crap. Many younger folks buy cars, furniture, houses and other major purchases that are within their income limits every day. The reality is, most big ticket advertisers want to sell financing for high ticket items. The 55+ crowd doesn't fit their target group. They pay for items in cash, finance it themselves through long held credit cards, or get lower percentage rates. There's simply not enough money to be made on them. Furthermore, agencies want to build brand loyalty. If they can get consumers to use their brands early, in their 20's and 30's, they hope they will be repeat customers for the next 40 years. For the 55+ listener, their habits are well set. It's difficult to persuade them to try a new product. Lastly, this new generation of retirees coming up will not have the amount of disposable income as the one before it. Most of them will have very little retirement savings, and their money will be spent on the basics, with little left over for discretionary spending. Obviously, not everyone fits this particular scenario, but it will be more common with the senior population over the next 20-30 years. It's not that RADIO shuns older listeners, it's the advertisers that buy the airtime that do. Once that attitude begins to change, you won't see too many older-skewing radio stations, except for low powered or fringe signals.

Simply crap? really!!! tell me, are people in their 50's and up paying $350,00 for a pair of Kanye West Sneakers, buying Rims that go for $200,00 to $300,00 a piece, buying a sound system for their car that goes for over $1,000 or is the 50 and over crowd sleeping outside, to be some of the first people in line to buy the new ipod's? no, people in their late teen and up are fad followers.

 

[fmradio1]

DooWop, it's obvious you didn't get past the first line of my previous post. Your blind generalizations of youth are disappointing. You honestly don't think old people don't make dumb, vanity related purchases? Of COURSE they do! How about all those grey haired letches that buy sporty "mid life crisis" cars so they can look hip to the younger generation you so despise. Or spend tens of thousands of dollars renovating a kitchen they will never do more than microwave a frozen dinner in. Heck, just look at the erectile dysfunction industry. How many billions of dollars do they make selling pills to old men trying to get a boner? Tons! I know plenty of teen and twenty-somethings that scrimp and save to put themselves through school, and just as many senior citizens who will buy the next generation iPhone, because they can, not because they need one.

Now, go back and read the rest of my previous post and let's see if you can put a coherent argument together about the reasons advertisers don't want to market to the 55+ audience. This ought to be humorous!

 

[landtuna]

Your blind generalizations of youth are disappointing.

I have to agree more with DooWop on this issue. Since 1988 I've put five kids through high school, the last one graduating in 2009, and I can tell you that older teens and 20-somethings make us old timers look positively stone aged in their purchasing habits.

I cannot tell you how many phones, iPod/mp3 players, and clothes the kids have spent real money upon and seemingly their shopping forays to the mall resemble a school of fish that follow each other around in big schools. "If it isn't what the other kids have something must be wrong with it." All their young friends were the same way.

Now that some of them are in their 30's and another in his late 20's I'm seeing a bit of a change. They seem to take their time now to research value instead of just blind brand purchase. But brand loyalty has gone by the wayside. The only "loyalty" they show is to follow someone else's advice - usually another youngster who already has one.

Oh, and out of the five.....only one listens to the radio and then only driving to and from work.

 

[fmradio1]

My experiences with youth have been different (I have a 20 year old who's very responsible with his finances) but while there has ALWAYS been a little wasteful spending by youth, I don't think it's any more prevalent than it was when we were "in the demo." If anything, radio is turning away from teens completely. Top 40 has been an 18-34 format for awhile now, and is increasingly becoming 25-44 targeted. By then, most young adults are out of school, getting settled in with careers (that pay better than minimum wage) and are getting married and starting families. Certain things that older folks may find frivolous, like cellphones and computers are very important to this group. And, increasingly they have the money to spend on them. That's why advertisers flock to formats targeting 20 and 30-somethings instead of 50 to 60-somethings. And obviously radio advertising is reaching this group because companies keep buying airtime on younger skewing stations. It's obviously not just word of mouth.

 

[amfmsw]

The last few posts proved do-wop's point. the younger crowd HAS shunned broadcast radio for personal devices and personal streams (Pandora/Spotify and such), and makes fad small $200-500 purchases. many are in college or recent grads saddled with huge debt. IF they are making a car puchase, it may be a Kia or Scion. While th 'mid-life crisis 50-60 year-old is buying their long deprived Corvette, Cadillac DTS, Benz S-class, Lexus, BMW or such. The house is paid off, and the ARE spending $20k on remodelling the kitchen, $10k on a new bath. They do have cash, they do spend it. Pharma? You bet! Investments, banking. And don't forget Travel! That notion of childhood brand loyalty is so 1960 Mad Men BS nonsense, it's rediculous. I use to eat Captain Crunch for breakfast...I'm NOT in the 4th grade anymore. I always bought Zenith color tv & radios...how's that working out? Or if I were a Philco buyer in the 60's-70's? Or Oldsmobile, Pontiac, Mercury? You can't be brand loyal to what doesn't exist anymore. What now...you need to market to me. LG or GE? Times change, attitudes change, lifestyles change...but STUPID ideas that people 50-70 aren't saleable? What about my cell phone, it's provider, this very computer brand...and the store...I chose to buy it from? Or my ISP provider? None of these things existed when I was a kid. Why don't Ad agencies THINK?

 

[doowopvault]

The last few posts proved do-wop's point. the younger crowd HAS shunned broadcast radio for personal devices and personal streams (Pandora/Spotify and such), and makes fad small $200-500 purchases. many are in college or recent grads saddled with huge debt. IF they are making a car puchase, it may be a Kia or Scion. While th 'mid-life crisis 50-60 year-old is buying their long deprived Corvette, Cadillac DTS, Benz S-class, Lexus, BMW or such. The house is paid off, and the ARE spending $20k on remodelling the kitchen, $10k on a new bath. They do have cash, they do spend it. Pharma? You bet! Investments, banking. And don't forget Travel! That notion of childhood brand loyalty is so 1960 Mad Men BS nonsense, it's rediculous. I use to eat Captain Crunch for breakfast...I'm NOT in the 4th grade anymore. I always bought Zenith color tv & radios...how's that working out? Or if I were a Philco buyer in the 60's-70's? Or Oldsmobile, Pontiac, Mercury? You can't be brand loyal to what doesn't exist anymore. What now...you need to market to me. LG or GE? Times change, attitudes change, lifestyles change...but STUPID ideas that people 50-70 aren't saleable? What about my cell phone, it's provider, this very computer brand...and the store...I chose to buy it from? Or my ISP provider? None of these things existed when I was a kid. Why don't Ad agencies THINK?

Thank you for bringing up the fact that he did prove my point and didn't even realize it!!! I was going to post a response to this fact but said to myself, when people begin to get arrogant and insulting in their response,it just shows they have the inability to have a intelligent, civil discussion while agreeing to disagree.But thanks for bringing up the contradiction.

 

[fmradio1]

Then explain to me this....why aren't 55+ listeners getting the love from ad agencies? I mean, we know they have money, so why aren't advertisers targeting them? Ever listen to talk radio? It's all ads from low rate companies like Life Lock or Cash For Gold. Talk stations are among the lowest billing formats in radio, and one of the most expensive to run. Oldies/classic hits are not too far behind in most markets. Philly is an exception because of WOGL, but they also do well in the 25-54 demos. It's not the case nationally. WODS in Boston had good ratings as a classic hits station, but billing had been off for years, so they blew it up and went Top 40. The 12+ beauty pageant numbers stayed about the same, but billing is up. Way up. Wonder why. It's not just radio. Try tuning into the network newscasts. Every ad is pharma or elderly medical supplies. Not major money.

So, despite youth 'abandoning radio' as you so think (although the PPM ratings indicate otherwise) advertisers and their agencies still want 18-54's over 55+. If 55+ is such a goldmine, WHERE'S THE REVENUE? This argument has been going on for years. Everyone wants to make money. I'm sure if someone figured out the medium/format to truly reach and market to this group and made a huge profit, EVERYONE would be doing it. It hasn't happened, and radio's been trying for decades.

For every older person who's buying BMW's, new kitchens and iPhones, there are plenty of others who are still paying off mortgages, socking money away for retirement, or paying for the basics and just getting by. Just as there are some teens and 20-somethings that are wasteful with their money while others are very responsible. There's all types of spenders in all age groups. So why is 55+ getting "shunned?" Simple. They do not respond as well to advertising. It's a fact. Agencies and sales departments have done the studies. I've even seen a few when I was in radio. The response rates for the younger demos are simply better after a client buys a run of spots. Radio is in the business of selling airtime, and clients want the most results (sales, people through the door, website hits, etc.) 55+ doesn't deliver as well as 18-34 or 25-54. They just don't.

So at the end of the day, everyone is right. But it won't change the fact that there's no money to be made marketing exlusively to the 55+ demographic.

 

[qtpieislit]

Tell me George, what can listeners do that are low income, who cannot afford a Computer? and the way the economy is today, with more and more people falling into poverty, or having to take part time jobs, on unemployment or having their unemployment run out, seems to me terrestrial radio should be giving people more choices, to win listeners back.

The problem there is that the people you mentioned don't have the income. The ad buyers want to target people with money. They could care less about those without or with low incomes.

Hey, just vote for Barak Obama so we can have four more years of the same. So in addition to free birth control and free abortions there can be free internet. The applications' can go something like this....Dear Chinese government, will you please lend the U.S. 5 more trillion dollars because radio sucks and we don't want to have to work for internet service.

 

[doowopvault]

Tell me George, what can listeners do that are low income, who cannot afford a Computer? and the way the economy is today, with more and more people falling into poverty, or having to take part time jobs, on unemployment or having their unemployment run out, seems to me terrestrial radio should be giving people more choices, to win listeners back.

The problem there is that the people you mentioned don't have the income. The ad buyers want to target people with money. They could care less about those without or with low incomes.

Hey, just vote for Barak Obama so we can have four more years of the same. So in addition to free birth control and free abortions there can be free internet. The applications' can go something like this....Dear Chinese government, will you please lend the U.S. 5 more trillion dollars because radio sucks and we don't want to have to work for internet service.

I guess it really doesn't matter, Sam, because who ever gets in, the $100 Billion a year in subsidies to Corporate America will continue, as it has under Republican and Democrat, so I guess we will need that five Trillion, after all, we have to continue Welfare, whether it be for the poor or the rich, welfare is welfare. Oh, I forgot Sam, it isn't welfare when it comes to the Corporations, it's called "incentives" lol lol. Give me a plate of Tax payer paid for subsidies with a little trickle down on the side.

 

[MikefromDelaware]

Let's face it, older folks don't react to advertisements the way the kids do. We 55+ folks (I'm 61) know the ads are either out right lies or greatly exaggerated. When I go into a store, I want to look at the item, touch the item, ask the questions I want answered from the salesperson, not have to listen to a bunch of "malarkey" they are shoveling at me to get me to buy. They care nothing about me as a person, they don't have my best interest at heart, they just want to make a sale, plain and simple.

Sales people and advertisements (the radio/TV version of a salesperson) are not need fillers, they are want creators. Remember a sales person's job is to get you to buy something you don't need. So keeping that in mind, the last thing I want is some glib talking sales person trying to sell me something I don't want or need.

I don't listen to ads on the radio or on TV for the same reason unless they are actually creative ads that are entertaining or funny, and most aren't. I'm not interested in hearing some glib talking "golden throat-ed announcer" trying to sell me stuff either. So even though it irritates me that radio or the ad agencies don't care if I listen, don't even see older listeners as a bonus, and definitely are not programming their stations with me in mind, I do understand why. It is what it is.

 

[doowopvault]

Let's face it, older folks don't react to advertisements the way the kids do. We 55+ folks (I'm 61) know the ads are either out right lies or greatly exaggerated. When I go into a store, I want to look at the item, touch the item, ask the questions I want answered from the salesperson, not have to listen to a bunch of "malarkey" they are shoveling at me to get me to buy. They care nothing about me as a person, they don't have my best interest at heart, they just want to make a sale, plain and simple.

Sales people and advertisements (the radio/TV version of a salesperson) are not need fillers, they are want creators. Remember a sales person's job is to get you to buy something you don't need. So keeping that in mind, the last thing I want is some glib talking sales person trying to sell me something I don't want or need.

I don't listen to ads on the radio or on TV for the same reason unless they are actually creative ads that are entertaining or funny, and most aren't. I'm not interested in hearing some glib talking "golden throat-ed announcer" trying to sell me stuff either. So even though it irritates me that radio or the ad agencies don't care if I listen, don't even see older listeners as a bonus, and definitely are not programming their stations with me in mind, I do understand why. It is what it is.

Absolutely right, Mike. As has been said many times, the people that own stations are not lovers of music, they are investors, they will go genre to genre, format to format, trying to find the one that brings in the most cash. When they do, and the cash flow ebbs,then they sell it off. They are not satisfied with a profit, no, they want the biggest profit possible.

 

[fmradio1]

Radio is a business, and just like any other business, it exists to make money. It doesn't matter if a station is a locally owned mom & pop or corporate owned. The object of the game is the same. Selling ads = making money. If older people don't respond to advertising, targeting programming to them simply isn't going to work. New media which works under a different business model offers many music options for older listeners. My dad is in his 70's and streams many different streams of music on his computer depending on his mood. He wouldn't go back to radio, even if there was a station targeting him. He has too many online options. Just as younger listeners are spending more time with internet driven music services, older folks are as well. It doesn't bode well for radio long term in any case.

 

[landtuna]

It doesn't bode well for radio long term in any case.

OTA radio will exist only until there is a reasonable mobile alternative.

 

[qtpieislit]

OTA radio will exist only until there is a reasonable mobile alternative.

Unless you're still caught up wathching long lost re-runs of Lost in Space, that occured about 4 years ago. You may have heard about it. it's called mobile broadband. It works with these new rumored things called i-Phones.

 

[landtuna]

OTA radio will exist only until there is a reasonable mobile alternative.

Unless you're still caught up wathching long lost re-runs of Lost in Space, that occured about 4 years ago. You may have heard about it. it's called mobile broadband. It works with these new rumored things called i-Phones.

Lost In Space was just possibly the worst program in TV history.

As to your other subject.....there is not near enough cell phone spectrum to accommodate all those who would want it if OTA radio ceased to exist. Not to mention the cost. Those two items must be solved before the masses move to alternate means of "radio".

 

[Tom Wells]

OTA radio will exist only until there is a reasonable mobile alternative.

Unless you're still caught up wathching long lost re-runs of Lost in Space, that occured about 4 years ago. You may have heard about it. it's called mobile broadband. It works with these new rumored things called i-Phones.

Lost In Space was just possibly the worst program in TV history.

As to your other subject.....there is not near enough cell phone spectrum to accommodate all those who would want it if OTA radio ceased to exist. Not to mention the cost. Those two items must be solved before the masses move to alternate means of "radio".

Nor are cell providers willing to grow a forest of new, taller sites in NIMBYland and/or accomodate useful cell handoffs.
Someday I'll figure out how many handoffs I get in my 21 mile drive to work.
I'm guessing it's about 8. Streaming is a real hoot!

 

[landtuna]

Someday I'll figure out how many handoffs I get in my 21 mile drive to work.
I'm guessing it's about 8. Streaming is a real hoot!

That's better than 2 miles per tower. Not bad! Anyone know the normal effective range of a tower?