Songs that didn't get much radio airplay

[OldiesCat]

Songs

You have it backward. The Ad community NOT targeting 50+ is the reason Oldies stations are fading away. If advertisers thought there was money to be made off Boomers, they'd be putting ad dollars on Oldies and other upper-demo stations. They are not.

I think it's wrong and a big mistake, but it is what it is.

1000 song playists won't work, either. There aren't 1000 legit full-time hits available in any Oldies station's era (let's say 1965-1975). Maybe 500 or so plus another 500-600 avaialable for spice or specialty programming- but with these, overplaying them would be worse than overplaying the biggest 300 hits.
A little goes a long way- you dilute the hit firepower and you lose the reason most listeners come to Oldies: to hear the greatest hits of their high school and early college days.

 

[KMRichards]

Re: charts

> For the most part, chart position has no relation to songs
> remaining relevant.
>
> Obviously, there are songs that placed high in the charts
> and are, therefore, more familiar by nature. But higher
> chart position does not guarantee relevance and, in fact,
> are ZERO influence on listeners. Can you imagine a listener
> hearing a song and reacting, "gee, kind of a nice song, but
> I don't remember it charting that high, so I'll turn the
> dial"? Never. Here's how listeners react: a) I like it or
> b) I don't like it.
>
> Using chart position to determine what's a hit and what's
> not is useless.

Good point.

Charts are useful to determine what songs are valid for testing, but the test results are what really matters.

Random example: "I'm Henry VIII, I Am" by Herman's Hermits was a #1 song in 1965, but could you see it as a valid oldie today? I'm sure it tests somewhere between "oh, God, NO" and "it was nice to hear it again, now I don't need to hear it for another 35 years" ...<P ID="signature">______________


</P>

 

[KMRichards]

Right band, right album.

> > > [I think I remember Rolling Stone calling Pet Sounds the
> > > greatest LP in rock and roll history.

> > Actually, they had Sgt. Pepper at #1. Pet Sounds was #2.

> Right band, wrong album.
>
> The Beatles' Revolver was #1; Pet Sounds #2; and Sgt. Pepper
> was either #3 or #4 (with a Dylan album in the top 5 as
> well...can't remember which one now).

From Rolling Stone's own website:
<a target="_blank" href=http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/5938174/the_rs_500_greatest_albums_of_all_time/>http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/5938174/the_rs_500_greatest_albums_of_all_time/</a>

1. Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band, The Beatles
2. Pet Sounds, The Beach Boys
3. Revolver, The Beatles
4. Highway 61 Revisited, Bob Dylan<P ID="signature">______________


</P>

 

[SuperRadioFan]

10 #1 stiffs 1960 - 1965

> I can't speak for all oldies fans, obviously, but
> we old farts who love oldies often don't like the crap
> and pap and rap that is touted as relevant today.
>
> That's why we prefer oldies -- and would like a
> little more variety in it.
>
> Your Top 400 Overplayed Songs are so overplayed that
> I rarely listen to the oldies station any more.
> Oh, for 400 of the so-called stiffs to be added to
> the playlist.
>
> Give me an example of ten of what you'd call stiffs
> from, say 1960-65...
>
> 73s from 954
>
While I agree with you about the crap and pap and rap.....
Here's 10 songs that hit #1 (#of weeks in parentheses) on Billboard that are total stiffs today... Songs I don't miss at all having to hear.
Remember these are JUST number ONE songs... Plenty of stiffs populated #2s thru #20s

In chronological order:
1960- Running Bear-Johnny Preston (3 weeks)
1960- Teen Angel - Mark Dinning (2 weeks)
the above two were BACK-TO-BACK # 1 hits
1961- Moody River - Pat Boone (1 week)
1961- Wooden Heart-Joe Dowell (1 week) - [Elvis' version was 100x better]
1963- I'm Leaving It Up To You- Dale & Grace (2 weeks)
1963- Dominique- Singing Nun (4 weeks) - [I blame this one's success on the JFK assasination]
1964- Ringo- Lorne Green (1 week)
1965- I'm Telling You Now- Freddy & The Dreamers (2 weeks)
1965- Henry the VIII - Herman's Hermits (1 week)
1965- Eve of Destruction - Barry McGuire (1 week)

Hearing the above ten songs makes me cringe like fingernails on a chalkboard

 

[TheFonz]

Re: Pet Sounds

> > >
> >
> >
> > [I think I remember Rolling Stone calling Pet Sounds the
>
> > > greatest LP in rock and roll history. Did I recall that
>
> > > correctly? I don't pay such close attention to those
> > polls.]
> >
> >
> > [Actually, they had Sgt. Pepper at #1. Pet Sounds was #2.
> Right band, wrong album.
>
> The Beatles' Revolver was #1; Pet Sounds #2; and Sgt. Pepper
> was either #3 or #4 (with a Dylan album in the top 5 as
> well...can't remember which one now).]


Well....here's the list I'm looking at:

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/st..._all_time/?rnd=1142881988320&has-player=false
>

 

[JohnnyMorganWXJX]

Re: Right band, right album.

> > > > [I think I remember Rolling Stone calling Pet Sounds
> the
> > > > greatest LP in rock and roll history.
>
> > > Actually, they had Sgt. Pepper at #1. Pet Sounds was
> #2.
>
> > Right band, wrong album.
> >
> > The Beatles' Revolver was #1; Pet Sounds #2; and Sgt.
> Pepper
> > was either #3 or #4 (with a Dylan album in the top 5 as
> > well...can't remember which one now).
>
> From Rolling Stone's own website:
http://www.rollingstone.co> m/news/story/5938174/the_rs_500_greatest_albums_of_all_time/
>
>
> 1. Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band, The Beatles
> 2. Pet Sounds, The Beach Boys
> 3. Revolver, The Beatles
> 4. Highway 61 Revisited, Bob Dylan


Well, now I'm categorically puzzled. I agree that Sgt. Pepper is and should be #1. But I DISTINCTLY remember reading something that put Revolver as the greatest album of all time. It apparently wasn't RS, so now I'm baffled.

I'm gonna look this up.

Ah, the VIRGIN All-Time Top 1000 albums has Revolver at #1.

I see WH1 also called it the greatest of all time.

I issue a mea culpa here. My old mind got confused by all these different lists.

 

[fang39]

Re: Songs

> You have it backward. The Ad community NOT targeting 50+ is
> the reason Oldies stations are fading away. If advertisers
> thought there was money to be made off Boomers, they'd be
> putting ad dollars on Oldies and other upper-demo stations.
> They are not.
>
> I think it's wrong and a big mistake, but it is what it is.

That was my point. It's a huge mistake and missed opportunity.

> 1000 song playists won't work, either. There aren't 1000
> legit full-time hits available in any Oldies station's era
> (let's say 1965-1975). Maybe 500 or so plus another 500-600
> avaialable for spice or specialty programming- but with
> these, overplaying them would be worse than overplaying the
> biggest 300 hits.

That's what I was saying. Although you'd need to expand your core years to beyond 1975 to even include some 80's hits that test well with AC markets. This will get you airplay in the workplace.

 

[fang39]

Re: charts

> Random example: "I'm Henry VIII, I Am" by Herman's Hermits
> was a #1 song in 1965, but could you see it as a valid oldie
> today? I'm sure it tests somewhere between "oh, God, NO"
> and "it was nice to hear it again, now I don't need to hear
> it for another 35 years" ...

Believe it or not, "Henry" receives daily airplay on B-103 on Long Island. Go figure!

 

[KMRichards]

Unnecessary duplication of information ...

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/5938174/the_rs_500_gre> atest_albums_of_all_time/?rnd=1142881988320&has-player=false

Didn't I just post that same link <u>two hours</u> before you did? <P ID="signature">______________


</P>

 

[954]

Re: 10 #1 stiffs 1960 - 1965

> Remember these are JUST number ONE songs... Plenty of stiffs
> populated #2s thru #20s
> In chronological order:
> 1960- Running Bear-Johnny Preston (3 weeks)

Don't remember that. Remember a later country version.

> 1960- Teen Angel - Mark Dinning (2 weeks)
> the above two were BACK-TO-BACK # 1 hits

Great song.

> 1961- Moody River - Pat Boone (1 week)

OK but I'll pass.

> 1961- Wooden Heart-Joe Dowell (1 week) - [Elvis' version was
> 100x better]

Don't remember this version. Elvis' version was
probably better.

> 1963- I'm Leaving It Up To You- Dale & Grace (2 weeks)
> 1963- Dominique- Singing Nun (4 weeks) - [I blame this one's
> success on the JFK assasination]
> 1964- Ringo- Lorne Green (1 week)
> 1965- I'm Telling You Now- Freddy & The Dreamers (2 weeks)

Five great songs. I don't think I've heard Ringo since the 60s.

> 1965- Henry the VIII - Herman's Hermits (1 week)

I have this one and know all the words.
"And every one was an 'En-Ery.
She wouldn't have a Willie or a Sam.
I'm her 8th old man named 'En-Ery.
'En-Ery the 8th I am. I am.
'En-Ery the 8th I am."

> 1965- Eve of Destruction - Barry McGuire (1 week)

Part of what made me drift away from R&R.

> Hearing the above ten songs makes me cringe like fingernails
> on a chalkboard

Maybe, but most of the music produced
since around 1965 has the same effect on moi.

I started listening to MOR stations in '65 or '66.

How did She Can't Find Her Keys rank?

73s from 954<P ID="signature">______________
"As bad as the Republicans are, the Democrats are worse"... Neal Boortz, 3/16/06</P>

 

[954]

The place to go for 50s and 60s classics,

> The place to go for 50s and 60s classics, unplayed on
> commercial radio, as well as your lesser known hits, is your
> favorite non-commercial station. Yes, I know--you have to
> change your radio dial. If you put as much energy into
> changing the dial to the lower/left side as you do to bitch

There's nothing like that between 88-92 in this market.

Nor has there ever been, AFAIK.

We have Christian stations and NPR affiliates with
minimal local content and college stations that play
nothing that a baby boomer's ears can tolerate.

Plus a jazz station with a weak signal this far north.

You're speaking down to beople who already feel victimized by
the paucity of choices.

> and moaning here, you might actually be happy with what you
> hear. College and community stations are providing some
> great programming that is not heard on commercial radio.
> But YOU, the listener, have to make the effort to come hear
> these stations. We'll always be willing to play the music,
> but need your support by listening.
>
> Dial around your radio, and find something you like--you may
> be pleasantly surprised. Or, you can even dial around the
> internet for non-comm streaming audio. For example, how
> about the Sunday Oldies Jukebox for 25 hours on Sundays? Or
> your local station that plays the oldies?

I think I've devoted enough time over the last ten
years to search for interesting programming for my
web site to know that what you speak of doesn't exist
here, outside of a few hours on weeknights and on
Sunday on the AM "adult hits" station.

And one of those programs was just dumped for a
brokered pill peddler.

73s from 954<P ID="signature">______________
"As bad as the Republicans are, the Democrats are worse"... Neal Boortz, 3/16/06</P>

 

[KMRichards]

A philosophical question

> > Hearing the above ten songs makes me cringe like
> fingernails
> > on a chalkboard
>
> Maybe, but most of the music produced
> since around 1965 has the same effect on moi.
>
> I started listening to MOR stations in '65 or '66.

Wouldn't that admission cast aspersions on the credibility of your opinions on this board?

I only ask because I believe there to be a consensus that MOR oldies would be a kiss of death to the format now.

[Dennis Miller mode ON]
Of course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.
[Dennis Miller mode OFF]<P ID="signature">______________


</P>

 

[Drew5164]

Re: charts

> > For the most part, chart position has no relation to songs
>
> > remaining relevant.
> >
I should think that the Charts are valid for the week in which they were issued. I can see where they may be of value from a historical standpoint. Maybe we should get together and create a monthly Chart of currently popular oldies!

 

[954]

My philosophical answer

> > Maybe, but most of the music produced
> > since around 1965 has the same effect on moi.
> > I started listening to MOR stations in '65 or '66.
>
> Wouldn't that admission cast aspersions on the credibility
> of your opinions on this board?

Not at all.

What I meant is I prefer oldies from 1965 and before.

Most of the more receny oldies I never heard until
we got our first oldies station, WAXY-FM, in the
early 70s!

I like 1950s music (plus 1940s, 1930, and 1920s).

No, I wasn't suggesting mixing MOR with oldies. One
"adult hits" station here does that and I call 'em
schizo. Trying to please too many audiences and
pleasing nobody. It sucks but it's still better
than the local oldies station, with its tiny
playlist of mostly 1965 and later..

> I only ask because I believe there to be a consensus that
> MOR oldies would be a kiss of death to the format now.

I think so.

73s from 954, listening to Untie Me followed by Stagger Lee.<P ID="signature">______________
"As bad as the Republicans are, the Democrats are worse"... Neal Boortz, 3/16/06</P>

 

[gr8oldies]

Re: A philosophical question

We all knew, even then, that the Comos, Andy Williams, Sinatras, etc. were for our parents, not us. I would not include them in an oldies format. What keeps getting missed in this debate is that most listeners are not oldies collectors, music geeks or radio geeks. Programming to that contingent blows off 99% of the audience. <P ID="signature">______________
"Your right to know supersedes your right to exist"..Gary Burbank</P>

 

[SuperRadioFan]

I Hope She Never Finds Her Keys

> How did "She Can't Find Her Keys" rank?

On the very insipid list...
I think "My Dad" was a fair song, but even better was "Daddy Don't You Walk So Fast" and even better than that was "Don't Cry Daddy".

Only true oldies aficionados will know what artists performed the above songs, and for a real trivia question, who wrote "Don't Cry Daddy"?
Extra trivia: Who wrote "He's a Rebel"?

> I started listening to MOR stations in '65 or '66.
>

If you were around the New York area then, you probably know the legendary WNEW which was and is still the best example IMO of that era and genre.

 

[davideduardo]

Re: 60's stuff is mostly dead and crispy.

> If you read on in this thread,
> you'll find a posting by Dave Eduardo, who claims the
> "Classic Hits/Oldies" stations that he consults have
> playlists of well over 1,000 songs.

I do not consult them... I am part of the programming team.

And we are now almost entirely out of the 60's, and don't play burnt-out songs, not even as "oh, wow" tunes.

If they test, play them. The problem is that 60's oldies are overplayed, all of them, and most of them are burnt out. In other words, the oil well is stillthere, but it is only pumping a teaspoonful of crude every day. It's called "depletion" and is followed by having your well capped.

 

[CTListener]

Re: 10 #1 stiffs 1960 - 1965

> 1965- I'm Telling You Now- Freddy & The Dreamers (2 weeks)
> 1965- Henry the VIII - Herman's Hermits (1 week)
> 1965- Eve of Destruction - Barry McGuire (1 week)
>

These songs actually get played on WDRC-FM Hartford. In fact, hardly a weekend goes by without someone requesting "Eve of Destruction" either on the Saturday or Sunday request shows. Different callers, too. Stiffs in one market aren't necessarily stiffs in another, I guess, or maybe this is just a case of a station that tends to fly by the seat of its pants rather than outsourcing research and/or hiring a consultant to make the playlist match the "safe" national standard.

A notable No. 2 song that I never hear anywhere anymore, though, is the Royal Guardsmen's "Snoopy vs. the Red Baron" (stuck behind "I'm a Believer" for two weeks at the end of 1966). Yeah, it was a novelty tune, but so was the group's "Snoopy's Christmas," which seems to test well enough to make just about every station's holiday playlist. The songs are very similar (unlike, say, Brenda Lee's "Rockin' Around the Christmas Tree," a holiday mainstay, and her "I'm Sorry," a pop smash that never gets played today), and "Snoopy vs. the Red Baron" was the bigger hit, so why do we only hear the Christmas song today?

 

[davideduardo]

Re: Songs

>
> Not really and therein lies the problem. The Advertising
> Community continues to recognize the 50+ listening audience
> as a viable market, even though the earliest members of the
> "Baby Boomer" Generation, who still control the majority of
> spending in this country, are approaching retirement age.
> This needs to be adjusted. 50 AIN'T FATAL!

It's 55 that is fatal. In the entire first quarter of this year (still 10 days to go) we have not seen one piece of 55+ business in LA, which is the largest radio ad market in the USA.

The advertising agencies and marketing departments of thier clients (who call the shots) specify 18-49 or 25-54 or some subset of that as the target nearly always. There is no 55+ business at all, except direct retail which the big stations do not go after.
>
> While I understand the rationale behind programming to the
> younger market (25-34), I think radio is fighting a battle
> they'll never win. They're alienating an audience that
> still choose radio as a prime source of entertainment and
> information by continuing to chase after a segment of the
> market that have found other ways (Ipods, Video Games, etc.)
> to spend their time and money. With new technological
> advances racing to the market seemingly every day, those
> people find radio boring and they probably won't ever come
> back.

Radio answers to advertisers. They want stations with audiences somewehre between 18 and 54. They do not want over 55. The cost per sale is too high, and most products are not designed for this group anyway.
>
> 1000+ song playlist can be successful in every market,
> provided the playlist and prgramming are put together with
> some creativity. Weekday programming should include "the
> familiar, big hits" to attract the "at work" listener, but
> evening and weekend programming should be different than the
> daytime fare and include some classics from "The Golden Age
> of Rock & Roll." Specialty "theme" weekends are a great way
> to "freshen" the playlist by adding some tunes their
> listeners probably haven't heard in a while. Trust me, they
> won't be scared off!

Most will be. Except for diehard oldies fans like 954 and Fonz, most oldies listeners also listen to about 2 to 3 other stations regularly, so they must find familiarity when they tune in. There are not 1000 60's oldies that test. The only way to expand the list is to leave the 60's behind, and go for 70's and beyond.
>

 

[davideduardo]

Re: Songs

>
> That's what I was saying. Although you'd need to expand
> your core years to beyond 1975 to even include some 80's
> hits that test well with AC markets. This will get you
> airplay in the workplace.

It will make you a bad AC station, not an oldies station. You have to have a point of differentiation and you are decreasing it with this thinking.
>