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Songs that didn't get much radio airplay

Re: I Hope She Never Finds Her Keys

> > How did "She Can't Find Her Keys" rank?
>
> On the very insipid list...
> I think "My Dad" was a fair song, but even better was "Daddy
> Don't You Walk So Fast" and even better than that was "Don't
> Cry Daddy".
>
> Only true oldies aficionados will know what artists
> performed the above songs, and for a real trivia question,
> who wrote "Don't Cry Daddy"?
> Extra trivia: Who wrote "He's a Rebel"?
>

I know "Daddy Don't You Walk So Fast" was Wayne Newton and "Don't Cry Daddy" was Elvis Presley. "My Dad" doesn't register at all.
 
Re: 60's stuff is mostly dead and crispy.

> If they test, play them.

I've been approached by those radio test panels. After asking a couple of pre-qualifying questions, they deemed me unsuitable for their group. Obviously, they're not interested in subjects who:

a) Listen to Radio regularly.
b) Have an opinion about the lousy programming they are subjected to.

Using the lowest common denominator to determine what songs "test well" and get played is both insulting and short sighted. Ten years from now, when terrestrial radio is on life support, we'll be able to look back and remember those "consultants" who led the medium to ruin.
 
Re: A philosophical question

> We all knew, even then, that the Comos, Andy Williams,
> Sinatras, etc. were for our parents, not us. I would not
> include them in an oldies format. What keeps getting missed
> in this debate is that most listeners are not oldies
> collectors, music geeks or radio geeks. Programming to that
> contingent blows off 99% of the audience.
>

Do 99 percent of listeners REALLY change the station when something unfamiliar, even by an artist they know, gets played on their favorite oldies station? Do the same listeners who love "Joy to the World" and "Black and White" switch stations when "Family of Man" or "Pieces of April" comes on? Do the same listeners who have made Honey Cone's "Want Ads" a format staple run screaming from the room if the station dares to play "Stick Up," which is basically the same song with different lyrics? Do the same listeners who love Orleans' "Still the One" take sledgehammers to their radios upon hearing the first notes of "Love Takes Time"?

I know tight-playlist oldies has a track record of maintaining steady listenership. But it's 2006 now, not 1986. Listeners who like oldies don't really have anyplace else on the dial to go. Top 40 radio is full of Kanye West and Kelly Clarkson. AC radio is full of Coldplay and Uncle Kracker and Robbie Thomas, and generally won't touch anything recorded before 1985. Classic rock radio is full of U2 and Pretenders and Nirvana. Nobody else is playing the Four Tops or the Grass Roots or Dionne Warwick. So why are oldies programmers still so afraid of listeners changing the station? They're not going to find anything stylistically similar to the music they like elsewhere on FM, and if they turn to satellite, they'll be dealing with expanded playlists anyway ... so why not open up FM oldies playlists a bit?
 
Re: Songs

> It will make you a bad AC station, not an oldies station.
> You have to have a point of differentiation and you are
> decreasing it with this thinking.

That depends on what you define as "Oldies." To me, if it's 25 years or older, it qualifies. The category shouldn't be limited to songs that were hits before 1975.
 
Re: I Hope She Never Finds Her Keys

> > How did "She Can't Find Her Keys" rank?
> On the very insipid list...

Fortunately I'm listening to my 45 now, because
the oldies station doesn't have it.

"She pulls out fire hydrant, ash can, TV set,
electric fan... but she can't find her keys."

> I think "My Dad" was a fair song, but even better was "Daddy
> Don't You Walk So Fast" and even better than that was "Don't
> Cry Daddy".
>
> Only true oldies aficionados will know what artists
> performed the above songs, and for a real trivia question,
> who wrote "Don't Cry Daddy"?
> Extra trivia: Who wrote "He's a Rebel"?
>
> > I started listening to MOR stations in '65 or '66.
>
> If you were around the New York area then, you probably know
> the legendary WNEW which was and is still the best example
> IMO of that era and genre.

Nope. Never lived in or near that market.

Native of WKBW-land.

And a Friendly Floridian for 40 years.

73s from 954
<P ID="signature">______________
"As bad as the Republicans are, the Democrats are worse"... Neal Boortz, 3/16/06</P>
 
60's stuff is mostly dead -- NEVER!

> > If you read on in this thread,
> > you'll find a posting by Dave Eduardo, who claims the
> > "Classic Hits/Oldies" stations that he consults have
> > playlists of well over 1,000 songs.
>
> I do not consult them... I am part of the programming team.
>
> And we are now almost entirely out of the 60's, and don't
> play burnt-out songs, not even as "oh, wow" tunes.

Maybe it wouldn't have burnt out so fast if you hadn't
overused what you consider hits and instead balanced it with
a large proportion of the other good stuff.

I do remember that you had stated your dislike for oldies elsewhere.

If an oldies fan was running the show, mightn't it be different?

73s from 954

<P ID="signature">______________
"As bad as the Republicans are, the Democrats are worse"... Neal Boortz, 3/16/06</P>
 
Re: 60's stuff is mostly dead and crispy.

> > If they test, play them.
>
> I've been approached by those radio test panels. After
> asking a couple of pre-qualifying questions, they deemed me
> unsuitable for their group. Obviously, they're not
> interested in subjects who:
>
> a) Listen to Radio regularly.

More likely, your choice of stations made you neither a P1 or P2 for them. Happens all the time.

> b) Have an opinion about the lousy programming they are
> subjected to.

Listeners who sound more like programmers are never used for test groups, as they introduce too much off-target bias.

> Using the lowest common denominator to determine what songs
> "test well" and get played is both insulting and short
> sighted. Ten years from now, when terrestrial radio is on
> life support, we'll be able to look back and remember those
> "consultants" who led the medium to ruin.

Somewhere on this board, David has explained how music testing works. Go find that post, read it, and THEN comment on the process. Given the tone of this post, I can well imagine why you weren't selected.<P ID="signature">______________


</P>
 
Re: I Hope She Never Finds Her Keys

> and for a real trivia question,
> who wrote "Don't Cry Daddy"?

Mac Davis, I believe.

> Extra trivia: Who wrote "He's a Rebel"?

That one I am sure of. Gene Pitney.<P ID="signature">______________


</P>
 
Re: 60's stuff is mostly dead -- NEVER!

> > And we are now almost entirely out of the 60's, and don't
> > play burnt-out songs, not even as "oh, wow" tunes.
>
> Maybe it wouldn't have burnt out so fast if you hadn't
> overused what you consider hits and instead balanced it with
>
> a large proportion of the other good stuff.

We moved out to keep our demos salable.
>
> I do remember that you had stated your dislike for oldies
> elsewhere.

Then why do I program 12 oldies stations in some of the US's biggest markets?
>
> If an oldies fan was running the show, mightn't it be
> different?

I am a fan of songs people want to hear. I find this out by asking the listeners themselves.
 
Re: 60's stuff is mostly dead and crispy.

> > If they test, play them.
>
> I've been approached by those radio test panels. After
> asking a couple of pre-qualifying questions, they deemed me
> unsuitable for their group. Obviously, they're not
> interested in subjects who:
>
> a) Listen to Radio regularly.
> b) Have an opinion about the lousy programming they are
> subjected to.
>
> Using the lowest common denominator to determine what songs
> "test well" and get played is both insulting and short
> sighted. Ten years from now, when terrestrial radio is on
> life support, we'll be able to look back and remember those
> "consultants" who led the medium to ruin.

Must testing is done by establishing two things:

1. Who is a listener?
2. Do they listen enough to be valuable to me?

Then, listeners who fit that first screen are recruited to create a proportional sample in the demos, ethnicities and sex breaks that the station wants to look at. Additional screens are often inserted to determine usage in different dayparts and what other stations share the person's cuming.

So, you might have fit all the criteria, but when they got to you the cell you are in was full already. So you are outta' luck.

Research is not ordered by consultants. The station has research in its annual budget, and knows how many tests and perceptuals and such that they are going to do. They will pick a research company based on a variety of criteria, and, while a consultant's recommendation may be influential (who would know better the quality of work than someone who helps implement dozens of tests?), it is the GM and the PD who finally decide.

The objective of testing is to find the songs that will attract the largest number of listeners in the desired demos... not the songs that will fragment the station.
>
 
Re: 60's stuff is mostly dead -- NEVER!

>
> Then why do I program 12 oldies stations in some of the US's
> biggest markets?
> >
NOT IN ENGLISH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


> > If an oldies fan was running the show, mightn't it be
> > different?
>
> I am a fan of songs people want to hear. I find this out by
> asking the listeners themselves.
>
Conversing in Englis or Espanol?

David I don't think those of who are ANGLOS can relate to songs that WERE NOT hits on English language Top 40-type stations, you know the ones we grew up with HERE IN THE USA. The same goes for African-Americans and perhaps American-born Hispanics who grew up in the 50s and 60s. Yes we understand when you say oldies are oldies.... We know where you're coming from <P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by SuperRadioFan on 03/21/06 12:25 AM.</FONT></P>
 
1980s in oldies?

> That's what I was saying. Although you'd need to expand
> your core years to beyond 1975 to even include some 80's
> hits that test well with AC markets. This will get you
> airplay in the workplace.

1980s in oldies?

I guess that's the radio translation of
"We had to destroy the village to save it."

Nothing
Suspicious
About that.

73s from 954



<P ID="signature">______________
"As bad as the Republicans are, the Democrats are worse"... Neal Boortz, 3/16/06</P>
 
Re: I Hope She Never Finds Her Keys

> > and for a real trivia question,
> > who wrote "Don't Cry Daddy"?
>
> Mac Davis, I believe.
>

Yesser!
> > Extra trivia: Who wrote "He's a Rebel"?
>
> That one I am sure of. Gene Pitney.
>
You know I had a feeling if you were around, you'd know them!!

BTW "She Can't Find Her Keys" and "My Dad" were recorded by Paul Peterson (from the Donna Reed TV show) and were hits in 1962. "My Dad" actually straddled '62 and '63 and may have peaked in Jan '63 in the Top 10 of many surveys.
 
Re: Songs

> > It will make you a bad AC station, not an oldies station.
> > You have to have a point of differentiation and you are
> > decreasing it with this thinking.
>
> That depends on what you define as "Oldies." To me, if it's
> 25 years or older, it qualifies. The category shouldn't be
> limited to songs that were hits before 1975.

No, I'd limit it to songs that were hits before 1965
(my choice) or 1970.

You start putting 1980s music in there and it is
diluted so much it becomes meaningless ... spanning two
generations and losing its identity. How many Madonna
fans go for doowop and vice versa?

73s from 954<P ID="signature">______________
"As bad as the Republicans are, the Democrats are worse"... Neal Boortz, 3/16/06</P>
 
Re: 60's stuff is mostly dead -- NEVER!

> >
> > Then why do I program 12 oldies stations in some of the
> US's
> > biggest markets?
> > >
> NOT IN ENGLISH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So? They are oldies stations. And in many markets, like LA for starters, they beat the "other" oldies station quite amply.

Spanish is a language, not a format.
>
>
> > > If an oldies fan was running the show, mightn't it be
> > > different?
> >
> > I am a fan of songs people want to hear. I find this out
> by
> > asking the listeners themselves.
> >
> Conversing in Englis or Espanol?

Spanish. They are Spanish oldies stations, in Chicago, LA, Dallas, Houston, Dallas, San Antonio, Austin, McAllen, Albuquerque, Phoenix, Las Vegas, San Diego, Fresno and San Francisco.
>
> David I don't think those of who are ANGLOS can relate to
> songs that WERE NOT hits on English language Top 40-type
> stations, you know the ones we grew up with HERE IN THE USA.

But oldies is about relating to the songs listeners grew up on or rember from past eras of thier life. That is exacltly what we do.

> The same goes for African-Americans and perhaps
> American-born Hispanics who grew up in the 50s and 60s.
> Yes we understand when you say oldies are oldies.... We know
> where you're coming from

"Oldies" are nothing more than songs that are not current. The isnsistence that they are ONLY songs of the 50's and 60's is arcane.
 
Re: 10 #1 stiffs 1960 - 1965

I mentioned this about a year ago. Harper Valley PTA was number one for one week in 1968 and it is nonexistant now. I think it would be nice to hear once in a while. It is a cute story written by Tom T. Hall.

<P ID="signature">______________
[email protected]</P>
 
Re: I Hope She Never Finds Her Keys

I think the original version was by Vicki Carr. Phil Specter heard the recording and brought The Blossoms in that same afternoon to cover Vicki Carr.

Yes, The Blossoms. He could not find The Crystals on short notice, but they got the credit on the label, but it is really The Blossoms.

>
> > Extra trivia: Who wrote "He's a Rebel"?
>
> That one I am sure of. Gene Pitney.
>
<P ID="signature">______________
[email protected]</P>
 
Re: I Hope She Never Finds Her Keys

I remember Anita Bryant doing that TV spot around 1969. Singing, "Be A Friendly Floridian."

Put out the welcome mat.
>
> And a Friendly Floridian for 40 years.
>
> 73s from 954
>
<P ID="signature">______________
[email protected]</P>
 
Re: Songs

>> Most will be. Except for diehard oldies fans like 954 and
> Fonz, most oldies listeners also listen to about 2 to 3
> other stations regularly, so they must find familiarity when
> they tune in.

David, you honor me.

But I listen to a lot of different genres of stations regularly.

I only listen to the oldies station at length when
I want to write about it, however. Otherwise, maybe
an hour here and there. I just don't care for their
playlist. I have more oldies (380) on my PC. And my LPs.

> There are not 1000 60's oldies that test. The
> only way to expand the list is to leave the 60's behind, and
> go for 70's and beyond.

I guess songs of the 50s have ceased to exist
for you, probably since back in 1990.

Would you believe that I also listen to a web radio
station with music of the 1920s? People have tastes
that you cannot imagine. And that areen't represented
in your tests.

73s from 954<P ID="signature">______________
"As bad as the Republicans are, the Democrats are worse"... Neal Boortz, 3/16/06</P>
 
Re: Songs

>
> No, I'd limit it to songs that were hits before 1965
> (my choice) or 1970.
>
> You start putting 1980s music in there and it is
> diluted so much it becomes meaningless ... spanning two
> generations and losing its identity. How many Madonna
> fans go for doowop and vice versa?
>

What you are missing is that you have to cut off anything pre '67 or '68, as that gets non-salable demos. There is no reason the oldies format can not move to always keep 35-54 listeners, instead of changing to be mostly 45-64 today, and getting older by the second.
 
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