Sony XDR-F1HD

[Play Freebird]

Hey, here's an idea: Why don't we just let everyone fire up on whatever frequency and power they want, and let the listeners see what they can pick up? Maybe reception reports and QSL cards will become popular again. :

As I understand it, that's the FM "allocation plan" that has been in place in Italy since the '70s -- just pick a frequency and begin operating in the name of free speech. I've heard there are well over 10,000 FM stations on the Italian peninsula, which has a total area smaller than New Mexico. This page briefly explains the situation:

http://www.nexus.org/NEXUS-IBA/FM/FM-in-Milano.html

When I visited Rome a few years ago, I copied 80 stations on a Sony Walkman from my hotel room near the city center -- and surprisingly, most were in stereo and quite listenable.

 

[KB1OKL]

And then, in late summer 2007, we had the picturesque declaration from WOR IBOC boor Tom Ray: "Some say (with IBOC at night) it's the beginning of the apocalypse. I'm the one who's going to start it." Haw, haw. Some funny guy, that Tom Ray. Hope his sense of humor, as vented on helpless first-adajcent stations with legitimate concerns about HD, is still intact - now that the mean old Cubans are ruining his nighttime coverage. I suggest the Cubans show him pictures of an "RF protection mask" that graphically illustrates their interference comports with "some kind of rules." I'm sure it will make him feel MUCH better.

I was just reading on the Inside Radio site that there is a movement afoot calling for the shut down of Radio Marti in the hopes that Cuba will reciprocate and cut the power on their signal, thereby reducing the interference stations, like WOR, are experiencing. Wonder how Tom managed that?


C5

Cuba's supposed interference with WOR is a bunch of bull, it isn't any worse than any time I've been DXing, he's just trying to call attention away from the fact that his buzz saw of a station has been annihilating 695 to 725 for vast distances. On nights with auroras southern stations predominate and those are the only nights WOR's has had SS behind it like many other stations. I am listening to 960 as I write and can hear Radio Reloj from Cuba behind the other stations on that frequency, and I live north of WOR. During that time when he was supposedly getting clobbered by Cuba I had to phase out WOR to hear any Spanish and it wasn't any louder than on any other station.

 

[Carmine5]

Well, here is a report from one UNsatisfied user of the XDR-F1HD.

http://somafm.com/blogs/rusty/2008/12/i-got-hd-radio-for-christmas.html

Here's one of his complaints:

"The radio runs very hot; I've heard those Ibiquity chips suck power and that's why you're not seeing a walkman HD radio yet. (And that's also why you'll probably never see HD radio in a cell phone.)"

Some of the other problems he mentions include slow lock of the HD signal and mediocre sound quality of the side channels.

C5

 

[Chuck]

Well, here is a report from one UNsatisfied user of the XDR-F1HD.

http://somafm.com/blogs/rusty/2008/12/i-got-hd-radio-for-christmas.html

Here's one of his complaints:

"The radio runs very hot; I've heard those Ibiquity chips suck power and that's why you're not seeing a walkman HD radio yet. (And that's also why you'll probably never see HD radio in a cell phone.)"

Some of the other problems he mentions include slow lock of the HD signal and mediocre sound quality of the side channels.

C5

Other than the heat issue, none of those complaints are a problem with the radio. It's the system. Yes, mine runs hot too, but it is not about to burst into flames at any second. It does draw quite a bit of power, which isn't encouraging for the future of portable use. It is no big deal in a car or home. Other than that, I think it is a fine radio.

The sound quality of the channels is an issue of how you choose to slice the pie. There is only so much data that can be crammed through a straw. It sounds great in analog! The slow lock up is most likely an inherent problem with the system. So far, I haven't seen any HD radios that lock in instantly. Perhaps in a strong signal area, they do, but I don't live in one. Where I live, it is very easy to blast right past the secondary channels. Unless you are looking for them (or put the radio in HD Scan) you might never notice they were there. As far as I can tell, very few people actually care, so it is more or less a moot point.

 

[KB1OKL]

Well, here is a report from one UNsatisfied user of the XDR-F1HD.

http://somafm.com/blogs/rusty/2008/12/i-got-hd-radio-for-christmas.html

Here's one of his complaints:

"The radio runs very hot; I've heard those Ibiquity chips suck power and that's why you're not seeing a walkman HD radio yet. (And that's also why you'll probably never see HD radio in a cell phone.)"

Some of the other problems he mentions include slow lock of the HD signal and mediocre sound quality of the side channels.

C5

More heat come from the grids on the top of mine that from the louvers on top of my 26 tube R-390A. If I actually used it I would not expect a long life from this radio. It is irritating waiting for it to maybe lock on, sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't.

 

[Play Freebird]

I modified the power supply of an XDR-F1HD last week to improve its reliability in translator service; I simply added two external regulator ICs (LM317 set for 10.5 V and a 7805) on a big heatsink to allow the tuner to be powered from an outboard 13.8 volt supply paralleled with a 17 AH gel-cell. The tuner runs much cooler now that its internal transformer is no longer in use. This should eliminate problems I had previously with glitchy UPS and generator power.

With those DSP chips and lighted display, the XDR is somewhat of a power hog, pulling about 1.2 A from the 13.8 V supply -- but its FM analog performance is unbeatable, so I can deal with the inefficiency. Just don't expect to see an "HD Freeplay" on the market anytime soon!

 

[Savage]

One-point-two AMPERES from a solid-state radio??

Are you sure you're not lighting a filament heater string there??

Freebird, better check the ventilation slots of that Sony and make sure you're not seeing an "orange glow..."

 

[Chuck]

I modified the power supply of an XDR-F1HD last week to improve its reliability in translator service; I simply added two external regulator ICs (LM317 set for 10.5 V and a 7805) on a big heatsink to allow the tuner to be powered from an outboard 13.8 volt supply paralleled with a 17 AH gel-cell. The tuner runs much cooler now that its internal transformer is no longer in use. This should eliminate problems I had previously with glitchy UPS and generator power.

I think that would be a great modification. Simple too… I'm planning on "upgrading" our translators to use these radios. I think it would make a noticeable improvement. I could care less if it locks in HD....

 

[Tom Wells]

One-point-two AMPERES from a solid-state radio??

Are you sure you're not lighting a filament heater string there??

Freebird, better check the ventilation slots of that Sony and make sure you're not seeing an "orange glow..."

That's not really too much current. My 1966 Bendix AM/FM car radio is rated at 1.1 amps at 13 volts according to Sams Photofacts.
Most of that is the idling current on the push-pull 2N176 output transistors.

The XDR-F1HD has no audio output "power" amps, so all that current goes into the display and processors....
What is the rated power consumption on the Sony ( at 117v AC)?

 

[clouseau]

I think that would be a great modification. Simple too… I'm planning on "upgrading" our translators to use these radios. I think it would make a noticeable improvement. I could care less if it locks in HD....

I Supect you'll like 'em as they are, Chuck. I've got two on our transslators, each using a Triplite UPS and I'm 6 weeks without a burp.

(However now I'm looking for a stack of lumber to knock on...)

Clouseau

 

[Carmine5]

Well, here is a report from one UNsatisfied user of the XDR-F1HD.

http://somafm.com/blogs/rusty/2008/12/i-got-hd-radio-for-christmas.html

Here's one of his complaints:

"The radio runs very hot; I've heard those Ibiquity chips suck power and that's why you're not seeing a walkman HD radio yet. (And that's also why you'll probably never see HD radio in a cell phone.)"

Some of the other problems he mentions include slow lock of the HD signal and mediocre sound quality of the side channels.

C5

More heat come from the grids on the top of mine that from the louvers on top of my 26 tube R-390A. If I actually used it I would not expect a long life from this radio. It is irritating waiting for it to maybe lock on, sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't.

Exactly. I used to own a MacIntosh receiver which gave off a fair amount of heat. But that's to be expected from tube equipment.

I don't expect that kind of heat from solid state stuff.

C5

 

[Chuck]

I Supect you'll like 'em as they are, Chuck. I've got two on our transslators, each using a Triplite UPS and I'm 6 weeks without a burp.

(However now I'm looking for a stack of lumber to knock on...)

Clouseau

I probably will, but I put one at a translator site, powered by a cheap APC UPS. This was just an experiment. I had it turned on, but continued to use the Inovonics receiver on the translator for audio. All seemed well, until one day I walked in and he Sony was on, but tuned to "530 AM." I'm not sure how or why it happened, but it did spook me.

Otherwise, they are exceptional analog receivers.

 

[Play Freebird]

I probably will, but I put one at a translator site, powered by a cheap APC UPS. This was just an experiment. I had it turned on, but continued to use the Inovonics receiver on the translator for audio. All seemed well, until one day I walked in and he Sony was on, but tuned to "530 AM." I'm not sure how or why it happened, but it did spook me.

At one of our sites where I'm using the Sony XDR-F1HD, we share a rack and 120 volt AC circuit with another translator which uses the same model of tuner. Both translators are combined into the same transmit antenna (Scala FMV dipole at 250 ft) but have separate receive antennas. All incoming coax lines are protected with Polyphasers, and I have also looped the coax jumper to our tuner through a ferrite bead.

Power to the site is fed from a building several hundred feet away which has a Diesel generator and automatic transfer switch. To carry us through the generator startup delay, both tuners and both transmitters were originally plugged into an APC 1250 VA UPS which indicated about 60% load and an estimated run time of about 9 minutes. I set the UPS for minimum sensitivity to line voltage and frequency fluctuations, as it has been my experience that they can be fussy when fed by a generator.

Everything was fine for several weeks, but we had an incident in late December (following a storm with high winds that may have caused a utility outage) which caused both tuners to mute. Upon arrival at the site, both tuners appeared to be powered on and showed the correct frequencies in their displays, but there was no audio output. "Rebooting" the tuners corrected the problem. I suspect a glitch on the AC line caused this problem, but I haven't ruled out a lightning strike to the tower. (At 500 ft, it's the tallest structure within a ten mile radius.)

I have since modified our tuner to run on 13.8 volts DC and its external power supply (which floats a 17 AH battery) is plugged directly into the wall outlet, but the other (unmodified) tuner is still on the UPS, so this will give me an opportunity to evaluate the effectiveness of the mod over the course of the winter. Will let you know how it works out.

 

[Chuck]

Will let you know how it works out.

I will look forward to your comments. My gut feeling is your outboard power supply with battery back-up should do the trick.

 

[ddsparxx]

I wonder why some Sony XDR-F1HD owners say their XDR-F1HD's run so hot? Mine is only warm when I leave it on and tuned in a local FM HD station, both primary channel and the HD2 sub-channel. I've heard about the HD chips using up a lot of power, however, I suspect one owner's XDR-F1HD might be defective if it runs hotter than his Collins R390 tube radio (even though I've never owned one of those fantastic antique SWL radios). I don't put anything on top of my tuner that would prevent the heat from coming out.

 

[Chuck]

I wonder why some Sony XDR-F1HD owners say their XDR-F1HD's run so hot? Mine is only warm when I leave it on and tuned in a local FM HD station, both primary channel and the HD2 sub-channel. I've heard about the HD chips using up a lot of power, however, I suspect one owner's XDR-F1HD might be defective if it runs hotter than his Collins R390 tube radio (even though I've never owned one of those fantastic antique SWL radios). I don't put anything on top of my tuner that would prevent the heat from coming out.

Mine runs warm, but not alarmingly hot. It certainly is not as hot as most tube type radios.

 

[Play Freebird]

By the way, Chuck, the Sony tuner I modified to run from an outboard power supply with battery in December is still going strong at my translator site; I haven't had to touch it since then.

 

[KB1OKL]

I wonder why some Sony XDR-F1HD owners say their XDR-F1HD's run so hot? Mine is only warm when I leave it on and tuned in a local FM HD station, both primary channel and the HD2 sub-channel. I've heard about the HD chips using up a lot of power, however, I suspect one owner's XDR-F1HD might be defective if it runs hotter than his Collins R390 tube radio (even though I've never owned one of those fantastic antique SWL radios). I don't put anything on top of my tuner that would prevent the heat from coming out.

Mine runs hot enough that it knocked a tiny SS tuner out of alignment that I had on top of it which was not blocking nor on top of the vents BTW. I have both R-390's and R-390A's, very different radios although they look almost identical. They are in large well ventilated cases and there is plenty of room in the cases for the heat from the miniature tubes to dissipate unlike the Sony which has everything crammed into a tiny space. I believe most of the heat in the Sony is coming from an underrated power transformer. Transformers in the 390A's and 390's run very cool.

 

[Chuck]

By the way, Chuck, the Sony tuner I modified to run from an outboard power supply with battery in December is still going strong at my translator site; I haven't had to touch it since then.

Thanks for the update. I have all the parts gathered up to do something similar, but haven't found time to actually do the modification. Maybe if I spent less time messing around on discussion forums...

 

[JohnnyElectron]

Is there someway to mount a big ole finned heatsink on the transformer to try to dissapate some of the heat?