Talk Talk about 103.7

[lido1302]

Re: This thread has everything to do with SD radio

This has everything to do with San Diego radio. IMO, there are enough talk stations here. Everyone in San Diego doesn't just listen to urban hip-hop and country. Alienating listeners doesn't help radio ratings, it only motivates them to go to satellite or Music Choice on cable. If KHITS is a 'top 40' station, why don't they play the top 40? http://www.billboard.com/bb/charts/bb200.jsp Or is it the payola?

As I stated earlier, it would be a good idea for PD's to get out of their office and find out what people are really listening to instead of simply crunching numbers.




> Can we keep this thread about San Diego Radio please?
>
> You've successfully hijacked a thread that was about 103.7.
>
> Now, you are trying to move this comletely away from San
> Diego radio, so you can make some sorry gawd-awful tired
> complaint about the state of radio and pop-culture. If you
> wish to do that, I have no problem with it, but this is not
> the board to do it, in my opinion. Please take it elsewhere.
>
>
>
> > All popular music is not 'rap' as exemplified by the MTV
> > music awards where Green Day won the majority of awards
> even
> > though they get 'little' air play here. If 'oldies' isn't
> a
> > money making format, why do so many commercials have
> oldies
> > on the sound track? It seems to me that today's
> programmers
> > have a case of 'tunnelvision' grouping formats to
> > demographics instead of really finding out who actually is
>
> > listening to what. They might be in for a surprise. BTW, I
>
> > would like to see what some of these PD's have in their CD
>
> > collections.
> >
>

 

[John_U]

Re: Talk Talk about classical

> > > No real Classical station
> This is a judgement call. You should be happy you have
> Classical at all.
> What do you mean by "real?" You need to explain what you
> mean.
> But if by "real" you mean "US commerically licensed," the
> revenue brought in will barely pay the bills to keep the
> transmitter working. Advertisers are not interested in
> Classical, for the same reason they aren't intetrested in
> Adult Standards; the audience skews too old, advertisers
> wont touh it. No advertiersers means no money. Why would you
> open a business that you know won't make a profit?
>

Hey. I know this is a A SD board but this kind of bugs me. Go take a quick look at the LA ratings (today). KMZT is in the top third of all LA stations. And that is in competition with KUSC (where the listeners cough up hard cash to keep it on the air). A graveyard station in Escondido has a measurable audience in San Diego with classical. In Boston, WCRB is in the top 5.

Classical is a viable format. It is being badmouthed to death.

John

 

[lido1302]

Re: The misconception about Satellite surfaces (as usual)

Most new businesses do lose money the first few years in operation. No surprise there. People in San Diego who lose their favorite station due to programming changes will look for alternatives. They won't just continue listening to whatever format is on at the time.

103.7's numbers will tank because there are already plenty of talk stations both here and in LA that can be heard.

> > Which is exactly the reason why satellite radio is taking
> > off and terrestial radio is tanking.
>
> Okay, here I go again because here we go again. Every
> single thread on every board that talks about "lack of
> format diversity" brings up satellite radio.
>
> Satellite radio is not, as you hope fervently, "taking off".
> The total number of subscribers to XM and Sirius, combined,
> nationwide, is lower than the daily total listenership to
> the #1 station in New York City alone.
>
> Terrestrial radio is not "tanking" either. What it is doing
> is concentrating on formats that reach the demographic that
> the advertisers tell the agencies they want to reach. That
> is why there are no commercial Classical stations, why Adult
> Standards and Oldies formats are losing ground, and why
> there are different "flavors" of AC, Talk, and Urban in
> virtually every U.S. market.
>
> Here, go read this article from Radio Ink:
http:/> /www.radioink.com/HeadlineEntry.asp?hid=130904&pt=todaysnews
>
>
> In it, Kagan Media Research (a well-respected analysis firm)
> forecasts Sirius won't achieve positive cash flow until
> 2008. Between now and then, they will operate with a cash
> flow deficit that is three times more than what is predicted
> as their positive in '08. That's hardly "taking off".
>
> If you are going to make your opinion sound like it is based
> on fact, at least get your facts right before you post.
>

 

[lido1302]

Re: Talk Talk about classical

Exactly. If San Diego PD's had their way, all that would be on the radio would be hip-hop & Rush.

> > > > No real Classical station
> > This is a judgement call. You should be happy you have
> > Classical at all.
> > What do you mean by "real?" You need to explain what you
> > mean.
> > But if by "real" you mean "US commerically licensed," the
> > revenue brought in will barely pay the bills to keep the
> > transmitter working. Advertisers are not interested in
> > Classical, for the same reason they aren't intetrested in
> > Adult Standards; the audience skews too old, advertisers
> > wont touh it. No advertiersers means no money. Why would
> you
> > open a business that you know won't make a profit?
> >
>
> Hey. I know this is a A SD board but this kind of bugs me.
> Go take a quick look at the LA ratings (today). KMZT is in
> the top third of all LA stations. And that is in competition
> with KUSC (where the listeners cough up hard cash to keep it
> on the air). A graveyard station in Escondido has a
> measurable audience in San Diego with classical. In Boston,
> WCRB is in the top 5.
>
> Classical is a viable format. It is being badmouthed to
> death.
>
> John
>

 

[KMRichards]

Re: Talk Talk about classical

> Hey. I know this is a A SD board but this kind of bugs me.
> Go take a quick look at the LA ratings (today). KMZT is in
> the top third of all LA stations.

More like just below the halfway mark (#25 out of 46 ranked stations). And that is with less than half the 12+ audience of the top stations.

What is more relevant is that KMZT has been owned by the same independent owner for more than 30 years. He can afford to run a format that has a smaller cash flow ratio.

> Classical is a viable format. It is being badmouthed to
> death.

Classical is viable only if it is on a station that does not have debt service (which leaves out all the major owner groups). It is not viable on a station which has to be concerned with ROI (return on investment), unless you want a format consisting of works that run 20 minutes or less, with 5-10 minute commercial breaks in between.
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[KMRichards]

Re: The misconception about Satellite surfaces (as usual)

> Most new businesses do lose money the first few years in
> operation. No surprise there. People in San Diego who lose
> their favorite station due to programming changes will look
> for alternatives. They won't just continue listening to
> whatever format is on at the time.
>
> 103.7's numbers will tank because there are already plenty
> of talk stations both here and in LA that can be heard.

That was not a reply to what I said. You are now ignoring that I rebutted what you said in favor of a new tactic.

However, here is a point you don't appear to get: Why are there plenty of talk stations? Because people are listening to them, therefore it is logical to attempt to get a piece of that pie.<P ID="signature">______________


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[KMRichards]

Re: Talk Talk about classical

> Exactly. If San Diego PD's had their way, all that would be
> on the radio would be hip-hop & Rush.

If you think the PDs have any actual say in what a station's format is, then you have really proven a lack of knowledge about the business.<P ID="signature">______________


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[lido1302]

Re: Talk Talk about classical

It's ovious that the listeners don't have any say either.

> > Exactly. If San Diego PD's had their way, all that would
> be
> > on the radio would be hip-hop & Rush.
>
> If you think the PDs have any actual say in what a station's
> format is, then you have really proven a lack of knowledge
> about the business.
>

 

[ibezdechi]

Re: Talk Talk about classical

THANK YOU!!!!

Do it right...make it palatable and the audiences will follow.

Toronto has a commercial classical station thta goes head-t0-head with CBC2 which is classical..

> > > > No real Classical station
> > This is a judgement call. You should be happy you have
> > Classical at all.
> > What do you mean by "real?" You need to explain what you
> > mean.
> > But if by "real" you mean "US commerically licensed," the
> > revenue brought in will barely pay the bills to keep the
> > transmitter working. Advertisers are not interested in
> > Classical, for the same reason they aren't intetrested in
> > Adult Standards; the audience skews too old, advertisers
> > wont touh it. No advertiersers means no money. Why would
> you
> > open a business that you know won't make a profit?
> >
>
> Hey. I know this is a A SD board but this kind of bugs me.
> Go take a quick look at the LA ratings (today). KMZT is in
> the top third of all LA stations. And that is in competition
> with KUSC (where the listeners cough up hard cash to keep it
> on the air). A graveyard station in Escondido has a
> measurable audience in San Diego with classical. In Boston,
> WCRB is in the top 5.
>
> Classical is a viable format. It is being badmouthed to
> death.
>
> John
>

 

[lido1302]

Re: The misconception about Satellite surfaces (as usual)

"That was not a reply to what I said. You are now ignoring
> that I rebutted what you said in favor of a new tactic."

I was replying to the following statement you made:

“here, go read this article from Radio Ink:
http://www.radioink.com/HeadlineEntry.asp?hid=130904&pt=todaysnews “

“In it, Kagan Media Research (a well-respected analysis firm) forecasts Sirius won't achieve positive cash flow until 2008. Between now and then, they will operate with a cash flow deficit that is three times more than what is predicted as their positive in '08. That's hardly "taking off".

Satellite radio will take off because due to media consolidation, there no longer is any competition between San Diego stations. If the radio monopolies are ever broken up, then competition will return and with it good radio.

 

[KMRichards]

Re: The misconception about Satellite surfaces (as usual)

> "That was not a reply to what I said. You are now ignoring
> > that I rebutted what you said in favor of a new tactic."
>
> I was replying to the following statement you made:
>
> “here, go read this article from Radio Ink:
http:/> /www.radioink.com/HeadlineEntry.asp?hid=130904&pt=todaysnews
> “
>
> “In it, Kagan Media Research (a well-respected analysis
> firm) forecasts Sirius won't achieve positive cash flow
> until 2008. Between now and then, they will operate with a
> cash flow deficit that is three times more than what is
> predicted as their positive in '08. That's hardly "taking
> off".

If only you had quoted in context in the first place.

> Satellite radio will take off because due to media
> consolidation, there no longer is any competition between
> San Diego stations. If the radio monopolies are ever broken
> up, then competition will return and with it good radio.

As has been discussed many times on many boards on Radio-Info, that is wishful thinking. Satellite radio has a very long way to go before terrestrial radio sees it as a threat.

Therefore, I stand by my earlier statements in this thread.

As for the radio monopolies, you'd have to talk to your Congressman about that. Good luck. <P ID="signature">______________


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[John_U]

Re: Talk Talk about classical

...unless you want a
> format consisting of works that run 20 minutes or less, with
> 5-10 minute commercial breaks in between.
>
So what is the difference between this and 2 or 3 stop sets an hour. BTW, most classical music runs under 1/2 an hour.

John

 

[davideduardo]

Re: The misconception about Satellite surfaces (as usual)

> “In it, Kagan Media Research (a well-respected analysis
> firm) forecasts Sirius won't achieve positive cash flow
> until 2008. Between now and then, they will operate with a
> cash flow deficit that is three times more than what is
> predicted as their positive in '08. That's hardly "taking
> off".

Same for XM. Both will lose money for 3 or 4 years more. And, even then, they will only account for about a share of listening nationally.
>
> Satellite radio will take off because due to media
> consolidation, there no longer is any competition between
> San Diego stations.

Those of us in SD radio are surprised to learn we have no competiton. It is one of the more competitive markets in the USA.

> If the radio monopolies are ever broken
> up, then competition will return and with it good radio.
>

By definition, there ins no plural for "monopoly" in a particular moat. Since no operator has a majority of the billing or revenue in SD, there is no monopoly. What we have is an oligopoly, which is not uncommon in America today.

 

[davideduardo]

> Which is exactly the reason why satellite radio is taking
> off and terrestial radio is tanking.

Whoa. Hyperbole alert.

Satellite barely gets a 0.3 share of listening nationally, while terrestrial radio reaches, as it has for the last 40 years, about 94% of all Americans every week.

> No diversity. In
> addition, there's no local content which is where terrestial
> radio has an advantage over satellite.

While localism helps in some formats, it does not in others where listeners want the best music and no talk. However, most rated market stations are locally researched so they play music for the local market, something satellite can only do in general terms.

And there is plenty of good content on terrestrial radio. Entertainment trumps local. But local and entertainign is best... and most stations know this.

> If there was a poll
> of San Diego listeners, I'm sure their views would reflect
> mine.

Actually, there is a poll. It is called Arbitron. 95% of persons in SD listen to terrestrial radio... as they have for decades. And they listen for close to the amount of time they did in, say, 1975. Most listeners are not dissatisfied. Some use other alternative media, too. But nearly all use radio.

> By looking only at the bottom line, SD radio
> broadcasters are hurting themselves by alienating listeners
> in favor of one narrow demographic.

Radio has been mostly a business since 1922. we have always looked at the bottom line.

Appealing to a narrow segment allows a station to serve that demo best. when a station is too much a generalist, they lose to the stations that zero in on specific groups. In an age of individualism and fragmented tastes, focus is essential.

 

[davideduardo]

Re: The misconception about Satellite surfaces (as usual)

> Most new businesses do lose money the first few years in
> operation. No surprise there.

My first station made money form its 5th month on the air. I have never done a start up that was not profitable within a few months. Even the iime I put the first FM in an entire country on the air, in the 60's, it made money within a year.

Very few businesses can lose money for years and survive. XM and Sieius can because they have financed with equity and relatively little debt.

 

[KMRichards]

Re: Talk Talk about classical

> So what is the difference between this and 2 or 3 stop sets
> an hour. BTW, most classical music runs under 1/2 an hour.

Not necessarily.

I spent the first two years of my career producing/board opping a nightly classical music program in a smaller market. I remember some works that went over an hour.

I'm still hard-pressed to see how a station that has debt service could support the format, though. Sorry.<P ID="signature">______________


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[DoctorWu]

Satellite radio may NEVER "take off"

...because there aren't enough folks willing to cough up ~$15 a month to pay for something they already get for free. PLUS the costs of new hardware to receive it.

Let's face it. Radio (with the exception of Talk formats) long ago ceased to be active entertainment. It now exists in the background in most people's lives. People don't want to pay for background entertainment. They can get it free already.

I could go on, but I think you get the point. Could terrestrial radio programming be better? Certainly. But folks are just not gonna defect en masse to a pay alternative.

- Doc


> Satellite radio will take off because due to media
> consolidation, there no longer is any competition between
> San Diego stations. If the radio monopolies are ever broken
> up, then competition will return and with it good radio.
>

 

[DoctorWu]

Re: Probably counterprogramming to Stern's 2 Sirius

How do you get T&A on the radio? Tell me... please!



- Doc

> Infinity still seems sold on the T&A/fluff oriented
> Hot Talk format.

 

[John_U]

Re: Talk Talk about classical

> > So what is the difference between this and 2 or 3 stop
> sets
> > an hour. BTW, most classical music runs under 1/2 an hour.
>
>
> Not necessarily.
>
> I spent the first two years of my career producing/board
> opping a nightly classical music program in a smaller
> market. I remember some works that went over an hour.
>
> I'm still hard-pressed to see how a station that has debt
> service could support the format, though. Sorry.
>
Lets move this discussion over to the classical music board. Oh wait, we don't have a classical music board.

While Beethoven's 9th runs an hour an 9 minutes (the work on which the audio CD was sized), the 5th runs about half an hour and the 7th runs about 35-40 minutes. But that is for full scale symphonic works.

How long does Chopin's Minute Waltz run

John

P.S. I can't speak for debt service on SD stations but how about debt service on, say, KDAY in LA?

 

[KMRichards]

A slight deviation from the subject ...

... but relevant.

> P.S. I can't speak for debt service on SD stations but how
> about debt service on, say, KDAY in LA?

Massive. The pair of signals purchased by Styles Media from SBS were overvalued. I don't know what their revenue is, but if it isn't picking up after a year of the new format, I would expect new options to be explored there.

Of course, this is also what happens in the San Diego market from time to time, on certain chronically underperforming stations. (See, I got back on topic.)

If, as is rumored, Infinity blows up The Planet in favor of "Free FM" (BTW, their L.A. FM talker, KLSX, has now adopted that moniker), it is undoubtedly because Infinity -- oops, CBS; forgot they are losing the Infinity name -- believes they can bill higher. After all, KLSX has stayed with the format for how many years now ...?<P ID="signature">______________


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