The Fall of KGO

[TVradioguru]

Wow I can't believe nobody has picked up on the move of KGO from the number one slot 25-54 since 1978 to number twelve. KCBS finally takes KGO down with their simulcast to take the number one position.

So what's the consensus? Is this a result of PPM measurement, or has KGO really lost that much traction? OR, is KCBS really that good?

 

[Michael Rivers Kramer]

Wow I can't believe nobody has picked up on the move of KGO from the number one slot 25-54 since 1978 to number twelve. KCBS finally takes KGO down with their simulcast to take the number one position.

So what's the consensus? Is this a result of PPM measurement, or has KGO really lost that much traction? OR, is KCBS really that good?

The 25-54 numbers have been eroding for a while. The total persons share rank drop is new. Most of the younger end of the 25-54 demo just simply doesn't listen to AM. Every year, a percentage of KGO's audience falls off of the 25-54 "cliff" and become worthless to most national radio buyers. Very few listeners to replace them since many people simply don't age into KGO.

 

[Madmansam]

Wow I can't believe nobody has picked up on the move of KGO from the number one slot 25-54 since 1978 to number twelve. KCBS finally takes KGO down with their simulcast to take the number one position.

So what's the consensus? Is this a result of PPM measurement, or has KGO really lost that much traction? OR, is KCBS really that good?

The 25-54 numbers have been eroding for a while. The total persons share rank drop is new. Most of the younger end of the 25-54 demo just simply doesn't listen to AM. Every year, a percentage of KGO's audience falls off of the 25-54 "cliff" and become worthless to most national radio buyers. Very few listeners to replace them since many people simply don't age into KGO.

I Wonder If Citadel Will Acquire An FM Station To Simulcast Their AM Station?

 

[LKellerIII]

Wow I can't believe nobody has picked up on the move of KGO from the number one slot 25-54 since 1978 to number twelve. KCBS finally takes KGO down with their simulcast to take the number one position.

So what's the consensus? Is this a result of PPM measurement, or has KGO really lost that much traction? OR, is KCBS really that good?

The 25-54 numbers have been eroding for a while. The total persons share rank drop is new. Most of the younger end of the 25-54 demo just simply doesn't listen to AM. Every year, a percentage of KGO's audience falls off of the 25-54 "cliff" and become worthless to most national radio buyers. Very few listeners to replace them since many people simply don't age into KGO.

I Wonder If Citadel Will Acquire An FM Station To Simulcast Their AM Station?

With whose money? Maybe Young Broadcasting can lend them some millions ;D

 

[djj]

Problem: Who wants to sell an FM in San Francisco/San Jose? Especially one with
acceptable, expanded coverage to meet KGO's needs, whatever they may be...

Of the stations in the Aloha Trust that are available (in San Jose), KSJO is probably the
best bet, but does it have acceptable San Francisco metro coverage?

I do not see CBS, Clear Channel or the others parting with any of its FM signals,
especially those that still make some sort of money for them in this economic climate...
--jay

 

[radioman148]

Wow I can't believe nobody has picked up on the move of KGO from the number one slot 25-54 since 1978 to number twelve. KCBS finally takes KGO down with their simulcast to take the number one position.

So what's the consensus? Is this a result of PPM measurement, or has KGO really lost that much traction? OR, is KCBS really that good?

The 25-54 numbers have been eroding for a while. The total persons share rank drop is new. Most of the younger end of the 25-54 demo just simply doesn't listen to AM. Every year, a percentage of KGO's audience falls off of the 25-54 "cliff" and become worthless to most national radio buyers. Very few listeners to replace them since many people simply don't age into KGO.

This is almost the exact same scenario that happened in Chicago to WGN. Number one almost forever, but as their listeners age the younger listeners aren't replacing them as they go mostly to FM.

 

[TVradioguru]

I agree with the opinions.

I wonder too if the loss of KGO's fairly two high-profile night hosts, one spending hard time for distributing child porn, and the other for going off with profanity with an open mic. has hurt too? The older demo faithful that kept nights so high with Bernie Ward, and the younger/gay listeners that were faithful to Korell(sp) are gone now. Since their departure, KGO has been rolling the dice at night with guest hosts.

Has anyone seen the KGO night numbers since that daypart has been in turmoil?

 

[davideduardo]

Wow I can't believe nobody has picked up on the move of KGO from the number one slot 25-54 since 1978 to number twelve. KCBS finally takes KGO down with their simulcast to take the number one position.

So what's the consensus? Is this a result of PPM measurement, or has KGO really lost that much traction? OR, is KCBS really that good?

I went back to 2000 and looked at the non-PPM numbers. In only relatively small number of books from 2001 to the end of the diary survey last year has KGO been #1 in 25-54. It was as low as 7th in Winter 2004, so it was by no means #1 in that demo and has not been for nearly a decade.

In the last two diary books, KGO was 4th and 9th in 25-54 (Winter and Spring of 2008)

The PPM just shows that the under-55's really listened less time than they reported in the diary, making it all the more evident that the demo that will listen to talk, 35-54, won't listen to AM very much. KCBS is up because it put the same programming on FM, where the 35-54's will listen.

 

[davideduardo]

I agree with the opinions.

I wonder too if the loss of KGO's fairly two high-profile night hosts, one spending hard time for distributing child porn, and the other for going off with profanity with an open mic. has hurt too? The older demo faithful that kept nights so high with Bernie Ward, and the younger/gay listeners that were faithful to Korell(sp) are gone now. Since their departure, KGO has been rolling the dice at night with guest hosts.

Has anyone seen the KGO night numbers since that daypart has been in turmoil?

Nights have a realatively minor effect on overall numbers because the PUR of radio overall at night is so low. A 5 share at night can mean fewer people than a 1 share in mid-days.

 

[radioman148]

Looks like Jim Dunbar left at the right time.

 

[Madmansam]

Here is an idea that will NEVER happen, but just an idea. CITADEL can swap AM 810 with PACIFICA RADIO's FM 94.1 PLUS added cash. That way you can have KPFA at 810 while you can have the New KGO-FM at 94.1. Naturally they can't use it as Legal Calls but Citadel can use KGOF as its On The Top Of The Hour ID and the rest of the time, Call Itself "The New KGO-FM 94". Hey FAMILY RADIO gave up its lucrative FM to be on AM 610, Why Not Pacifica? I don't know how Pacifica is doing financially with its KPFA? But It Is An Idea? Of Course That Will Never Happen But Just An Idea?

 

[TheRadioVortex]

I agree with the opinions.

I wonder too if the loss of KGO's fairly two high-profile night hosts, one spending hard time for distributing child porn, and the other for going off with profanity with an open mic. has hurt too? The older demo faithful that kept nights so high with Bernie Ward, and the younger/gay listeners that were faithful to Korell(sp) are gone now. Since their departure, KGO has been rolling the dice at night with guest hosts.

Has anyone seen the KGO night numbers since that daypart has been in turmoil?

No I haven't but I would bet that you're exactly right.
KGO will lose even more traction now that Karel is on 9P-MID M-Th on Energy 92.7 and KRXA 540. Karel is already getting those "older" listeners 55 2 dead

Looking at Karel's success on KFI Citadel could have made him the permanent 10P-1A host as an ultraliberal lead in for Ray Talliaferro, just like Bernie Ward formerly provided. Those rotations w/ Christine Craft were ridiculous.

BTW, as for Citadel's firing over the profanity, another sign of Citadel's incompetence - the engineer let the microphone on - it wasn't directly Karel's fault. Geez - everyone I know in this biz uses profanity OFF the air, why don't Fagreed Sulemann and Judy Ellis know this ! ??? ;D

 

[sandiegoinexile]

.....I wonder too if the loss of KGO's fairly two high-profile night hosts, one spending hard time for distributing child porn, and the other for going off with profanity with an open mic. has hurt too? The older demo faithful that kept nights so high with Bernie Ward, and the younger/gay listeners that were faithful to Korell(sp) are gone now. Since their departure, KGO has been rolling the dice at night with guest hosts.

KGO booms into the PalmSprings market so I listen at night. I listened to Bernie for years and to Karel since his days as LA KFI drivetime.

The random rotating 10PM hosts are plain awful. The only one worth listening to is John Rothman, although, oddly, his 1-5AM weekend shows are generally more listenable than when he gets a weeknight shift. Perhaps Pat Thurston or Christine Craft would "grow" on me if they were on every night, but I think the rotating hosts hurts.

 

[davideduardo]

No I haven't but I would bet that you're exactly right.

The 12+ 7 to Midnight share has been a 6.8, 6.8, 8.3, 8.0, 7.4. 7.7, 5.8 Holiday) and 6.9 for the last 8 books. There is no way of comparing with previous numbers, as they are not PPM data.

KGO will lose even more traction now that Karel is on 9P-MID M-Th on Energy 92.7 and KRXA 540. Karel is already getting those "older" listeners 55 2 dead

KGO's primary (5 mv/m) signal covers about 5 times the population of Energy. KRXA is not in the SF metro.

Looking at Karel's success on KFI

What success is that? Karel and his partner lost numbers for KFI in afternoons, and were moved to evenings, where they were eventually let go, too.

 

[DavidKaye]

The PPM just shows that the under-55's really listened less time than they reported in the diary, making it all the more evident that the demo that will listen to talk, 35-54, won't listen to AM very much. KCBS is up because it put the same programming on FM, where the 35-54's will listen.

And we're all familiar with diaries that report people listening to non-existent callsigns because, "Well, just the other day I listened to them" when it was really 6 years in the past that the station changed callsign and format.

"KGO" is an easy callsign to remember, and thus an easy one to be fudged in a diary.

 

[landtuna]

I've seen mentioned several times something about KGO simulcasting on an FM. IIRC, KGO-FM used to exist at 103.7 in the late 60's (it played automated rock then).

What happened to it?

 

[LKellerIII]

I've seen mentioned several times something about KGO simulcasting on an FM. IIRC, KGO-FM used to exist at 103.7 in the late 60's (it played automated rock then).

What happened to it?

A short question requiring a long answer. Under ABC ownership, KGO-FM became KSFX. If I remember correctly, the station had an album rock format for awhile, similar to KLOS in Los Angeles, which was not popular. I remember that they tried a hit "Musicradio" format which was a clone of 77/WABC in New York. That didn't work either, so they flipped to a soul/funk format that was successful by 1975 or so. Then disco got big, so they transitioned to all-disco which was popular short term, but then fizzled-out when the disco-craze crashed.

Shortly after that, they became KGO-FM again (early 80s) and went to an all-talk format using the new ABC talk radio network. At that same time, WABC finally dropped rock for talk in New York for this same network talk format. The new talk network ran Owen Spann in mornings (who moved from KGO-AM to WABC for the job). That was when Ronn Owens took over mornings on KGO-AM, replacing Spann. Most of the other KGO-FM hosts were LA based out of KABC, like Dr. Toni Grant, who was an early day Dr. Laura Schlessinger type.

Talk on KGO-FM limped along for a couple of years, but was not popular, even though they finally tried one or two local hosts like Don Chamberlin with his "sex-talk" show. Like many short-sighted media corporations at that time, they decided to take a quick profit and dump the under-performing FM. I don't remember the year (1985 maybe?), but the station was bought by whatever company owned KLOK 1170 in San Jose. Under these new owners it was "Yes/No Radio" KLOK-FM for a few years until KKSF.

 

[RadioStarOne]

Anyone remember "The Last Eleven Day's Of KSFX"? BTW.. The station went back to rock after they were HIP HOP for awhile then from the rock format into the KGO-FM similcast. Who'da thought HIP HOP would become as big as it has back then? They should have stayed with it! Imagine where they would be today in the market. There might have never been a KMEL from rock to Top forty/rhythmic format flip.

 

[TheRadioVortex]

quote author=DavidEduardo KGO

KGO's primary (5 mv/m) signal covers about 5 times the population of Energy. KRXA is not in the SF metro.


Doesn't matter! The ~3000 watts of Energy 92.7 cover the most liberal areas of the Bay Area where a disproportionate number of Karel's demo of younger 25-44 listeners are located! Yes KRXA is in the Monterey/Santa Cruz/Salinas survey area but can be heard up the coast, not sure how far I haven't been there recently!

Looking at Karel's success on KFI What success is that? Karel and his partner lost numbers for KFI in afternoons, and were moved to evenings, where they were eventually let go, too.

Geeeeez. Being on afternoon drive on a heritage station is what constitutes success!

 

[davideduardo]

The ~3000 watts of Energy 92.7 cover the most liberal areas of the Bay Area where a disproportionate number of Karel's demo of younger 25-44 listeners are located!

Karel bareley showed in 24-34, with around a 0.4 share, and was around 25th in 35-44, based on the three books ahead of his firing... he pretty much had no younger listening.

Looking at Karel's success on KFI What success is that? Karel and his partner lost numbers for KFI in afternoons, and were moved to evenings, where they were eventually let go, too.

Geeeeez. Being on afternoon drive on a heritage station is what constitutes success!

Being on a significant station and not lasting is hardly success.