The Fall of KGO

[DavidKaye]

Karel bareley showed in 24-34, with around a 0.4 share, and was around 25th in 35-44, based on the three books ahead of his firing... he pretty much had no younger listening.

a significant station and not lasting is hardly success.

This was confirmed when I went to a meet'n'greet at an appliance store on the Peninsula where Karel was appearing. Most of his audience was over 60, and there were at least two who required walkers to get around. I mentioned this at the time on the ba.broadcast Usenet newsgroup. The one guy who appeared to be in the 25-34 age group Karel began flirting with and then mentioned the guy by name on his show that night. Total lack of class all the way.

I wish I could say something good about Karel, but it's really really hard.

 

[BossRadioDJ]

The king is dead! Long live the king! Oh, how the mighty have fallen! KGO is finished! Kaput!

...Errrrrr, uh. Whoops. This just in:

San Francisco Radio Metro (PPM 6+)

Monday-Sunday 6am-Midnight

Hol 08 Jan 09 Feb 09

KGO-AM 5.4 5.5 5.8

KCBS-AM/FM 4.4 5.6 5.6

KQED-FM 5.1 5.3 5.4

KOIT-FM 8.3 4.8 4.4

(I know. Let's see the 25-54 numbers...)

 

[radioman148]

The king is dead! Long live the king! Oh, how the mighty have fallen! KGO is finished! Kaput!

...Errrrrr, uh. Whoops. This just in:

San Francisco Radio Metro (PPM 6+)

Monday-Sunday 6am-Midnight

Hol 08 Jan 09 Feb 09

KGO-AM 5.4 5.5 5.8

KCBS-AM/FM 4.4 5.6 5.6

KQED-FM 5.1 5.3 5.4

KOIT-FM 8.3 4.8 4.4

(I know. Let's see the 25-54 numbers...)

Ahhh....not so fast.

 

[davideduardo]

(I know. Let's see the 25-54 numbers...)

25-54 rank
KQED, KCBS, KOIT, KFOG, KRZZ, KIOI,KSOL, KSAN, KNBR, KISQ, KLLC, KBWF, KGO, KBLX, KYLD, KMEL.

KCBS beats KGO 4.9 to 2.9 in the only demo range that matters.

 

[radioman148]

KGO has the same problem that WGN in Chicago has--they're not getting young listeners.

 

[BossRadioDJ]

Noted in the Central California board that legacy news-talker KMJ/580 in Fresno has now added an FM signal. They're simulcasting in morning and afternoon drive, with alternative talk programming (separate from the AM) on the FM side during other dayparts. Not a bad idea, is it?

And thanks to Mr. Eduardo for coming through with those 25-54 numbers!

 

[oaktree]

And after six years of trying ... the last few months on a semi-regular basis from 10-1 at night on KGO ... Karel wasn't the answer to the lack of young listener problems, nor would be, even on a flamethrowing 50-kw AM. He's been there ... done that and failed to impress in the worst daypart in radio for sellable demos ... Saturday & Sunday nite 7-10p.m.

The "FM KMJ @ 105-9" is a creative idea, despite the fact that there is an abundance of national talk with Glen Beck, et al ... but there is younger oriented Chris Daniels and one other local talker. A much better "brand extension" for an AM with a 9.5 share in Fresno with a huge signal ... than merely simulcasting the AM success for the FM.

Peak Broadcasting is intent on bringing "mainstream" talk to FM as a complement to KMJ's heritage legacy... something CBS didn't or couldn't do when they owned it, though they were responsible for the power upgrade and transmitter changes.

The FM as "adult hits" was a trainwreck. As Peak's Bill Figenshue said of the "580/KMJ Now" and "FM KMJ @ 105.9" "the audience missed the memo on cutbacks."

Nice job ... in a market with high double digit unemployment, fiscal difficulties and an overcrowded broadcast band on FM & AM.

 

[LKellerIII]

(I know. Let's see the 25-54 numbers...)

25-54 rank
KQED, KCBS, KOIT, KFOG, KRZZ, KIOI,KSOL, KSAN, KNBR, KISQ, KLLC, KBWF, KGO, KBLX, KYLD, KMEL.

KCBS beats KGO 4.9 to 2.9 in the only demo range that matters.

...KGO below The Wolf - that is depressing. I'm not surprised at KQED's performance. NPR has become a real force in radio.

I'm surprised that MEL and Wild are doing so poorly in 25-54. Question for David (Eduardo) - is that a recent trend?

Last question: La Raza seems to be doing much better since PPM. What accounts for that?

 

[davideduardo]

...KGO below The Wolf - that is depressing. I'm not surprised at KQED's performance. NPR has become a real force in radio.

I'm surprised that MEL and Wild are doing so poorly in 25-54. Question for David (Eduardo) - is that a recent trend?

Last question: La Raza seems to be doing much better since PPM. What accounts for that?

There are no "trends" in the PPM. There are monthly books and weekly reports, both with the same sample size... the weeklies are just far less granular.

This data is from the February book.

As to La Raza, they started networking the KLAX LA programming.

 

[SFStatic]

Some of the broadcasters continue to combine the monthly books into quarterlies, which the software enables you to do. Seems to be primarily a way to ease agencies and clients into the new PPM data.

 

[radioman148]

Noted in the Central California board that legacy news-talker KMJ/580 in Fresno has now added an FM signal. They're simulcasting in morning and afternoon drive, with alternative talk programming (separate from the AM) on the FM side during other dayparts. Not a bad idea, is it?

The handwriting is on the wall.

 

[LKellerIII]

...KGO below The Wolf - that is depressing. I'm not surprised at KQED's performance. NPR has become a real force in radio.

I'm surprised that MEL and Wild are doing so poorly in 25-54. Question for David (Eduardo) - is that a recent trend?

Last question: La Raza seems to be doing much better since PPM. What accounts for that?

There are no "trends" in the PPM. There are monthly books and weekly reports, both with the same sample size... the weeklies are just far less granular.

This data is from the February book.

As to La Raza, they started networking the KLAX LA programming.

Thanks, but I didn't mean "trend" as in Arbi-trend, I meant it in the generic sense - Have KMEL and KYLD been losing share in the 25-54 demo recently, or is this showing consistent with the pre-PPM ratings?

As for the "creativeness" of simulcasting AM signals on FM in some day parts - I agree, though it's not exactly new. Before the FCC relaxed restrictions on simulcasting in the 80s (allowing 24 hour simulcasts), this was typical. I recall that 610/KFRC simulcast Dr. Don Rose in the mornings on KFRC-FM (106.1), but the FM went to a cheesy top 20 countdown format the rest of the day.

The KSFO/KYA Rock and Roll Classics combo in the 80s did partial simulcasting, then went to a 24 hour simulcast when the FCC relaxed the restrictions. KSFO played a lot of 50s Oldies, and KYA-FM played music from the 60s.

There are numerous other examples.

 

[RadioStarOne]

25 to 54? Think KGO is bad where is KSFO? Listening to all of these comments the time has come to just turn off the station and go home for Citadel. KGO just needs to try a little bit harder but there is no hum left in Citadel's Hummer! lol... BTW why don't you all count all the stations that are doing New/Talk in the market now compared to three years ago. I remember asking the question: How many stations switching to News/Talk will it take to knock KGO off its number one spot? I guess we are finally finding out just how many that was. The final factor was the arrival of the PPM. Its to bad Mickey and the honcho's at KGO TV can't get together and buy the station from Citadel that might help things a bit, don'tcha think?

 

[Madmansam]

25 to 54? Think KGO is bad where is KSFO? Listening to all of these comments the time has come to just turn off the station and go home for Citadel. KGO just needs to try a little bit harder but there is no hum left in Citadel's Hummer! lol... BTW why don't you all count all the stations that are doing New/Talk in the market now compared to three years ago. I remember asking the question: How many stations switching to News/Talk will it take to knock KGO off its number one spot? I guess we are finally finding out just how many that was. The final factor was the arrival of the PPM. Its to bad Mickey and the honcho's at KGO TV can't get together and buy the station from Citadel that might help things a bit, don'tcha think?

I didn't think about it but what is the possibilty that Clear Channel will create a FM News/Talk Station? Maybe dropping the Smooth Jazz Format of KKSF-103.7 to create a KNEW-FM? Either 100% Simulcast or do what KMJ is doing (A Partial Simulcast)? If not KKSF, maybe one of CC's other FM's which may not be doing good ratings wise? This, in my opinion, would be a coup for CC, and a blow to Citadel and KGO. Yes, KGO may have a better Talk Selection than KNEW, but maybe being on the FM Dial would be what would give KNEW a boost?

 

[mred]

one minute Dr Wrotenburger on kgo will take kids calls, the next minute he is swearing about ecofreaks blocking nuke plants..do they really know what their goals about demographics are?

 

[davideduardo]

one minute Dr Wrotenburger on kgo will take kids calls, the next minute he is swearing about ecofreaks blocking nuke plants..do they really know what their goals about demographics are?

Kid calls are generally instigated by adults, and are for the amusement of adults. KGO has a very clear demographic target...

 

[LKellerIII]

one minute Dr Wrotenburger on kgo will take kids calls, the next minute he is swearing about ecofreaks blocking nuke plants..do they really know what their goals about demographics are?

Your remark is bizarre...what's inconsistent about taking kids calls, then attacking "eco-freaks?" No sane talk station will make their hosts adjust their political views to suit demographics. Though I'm no particular fan of Bill Wattenburg, I think what he's doing is expressing his political opinions, the exact thing all talk hosts are expected to do.

I haven't heard Wattenburg in a few years, but if his show is the same, he splits his time between expressing his political views and answering calls about science conundrums. Why not answer those questions for kids?

According to most experts who post here, KGO's problems with aging demographic is a matter of (1) their AM only signal; and (2) the high average age of their hosts, which is getting up into medicare range.

The problem has nothing to do with politics, or who they take calls from.

 

[mred]

Because the angry swearing is not something some parents want their kids to hear. Either the show is kid friendly or not. "Call the good doctor and ask him your science question Billy"

Rotenburger: "The Bung Hole eco freak Sierra Club nazis are running wild in the street...Clinton will pick up a steaming dog turd off the grass and hand it to you and call it candy..."

The loading dock talk is not something parents want their kid copying.

They have a demographic in mind that is leaving the state or dying out.

 

[DavidKaye]

Rotenburger: "The Bung Hole eco freak Sierra Club nazis are running wild in the street...Clinton will pick up a steaming dog turd off the grass and hand it to you and call it candy..."

Parents think the old codger is "cute" with his insults. That's my take anyway, from hearing people talk about him over the years. I assume the parents either tuck the kids away in bed after the phone calls or think that Wattenburg's comments are innocuous.

Personally, I think his audience appeal comes from his deep voice and his insults. I believe people think of him as a father figure, scolding miscreant children, and for some reason there are lots of people with father fixations who like to hear this kind of thing.

 

[LKellerIII]

Rotenburger: "The Bung Hole eco freak Sierra Club nazis are running wild in the street...Clinton will pick up a steaming dog turd off the grass and hand it to you and call it candy..."

Parents think the old codger is "cute" with his insults. That's my take anyway, from hearing people talk about him over the years. I assume the parents either tuck the kids away in bed after the phone calls or think that Wattenburg's comments are innocuous.

Personally, I think his audience appeal comes from his deep voice and his insults. I believe people think of him as a father figure, scolding miscreant children, and for some reason there are lots of people with father fixations who like to hear this kind of thing.

While saying "bunghole" and "turd" may be crude, I don't think they even qualify as curse words anymore in this profane society.

It never bothers me when talk hosts get hot under the colllar about politics - that's more or less par for the course. What has bugged me in the past about Wattenburg is the way he treats people who call with sincere science related questions. He often answers their questions rudely and condescendingly with a kind of "you're stupid to even ask" attitude.

I think some people like to be verbally abused. I have a co-worker who used to play Laura Schlessinger's program in her cubicle, until we made her stop. The most remarkable Dr. Laura performance I ever heard involved a caller who mentioned in passing that she made all the guests in her home take off their shoes (Japanese style). Laura didn't even respond to the woman's life-problem, but instead trashed her verbally for multiple minutes for making people take off their shoes.

Obviously, this practice annoys the good doctor, and she took the opportunity to spew about it - but it had nothing to do with the woman's problem, and was truly bizarre behavior for a professional giving psychological advice. Predictably, the woman was cowed and apologized to Dr. L for her lifestyle choice.