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Toucher, Rich and Crash in Boston?

Capps said:
Paul...i agree with the broader appeal aspect for WJMN, hence TnR's demo being males 18-44 (and lets be honest mainly white males 18-44).

Being a part of said demo, I call B.S. on your comment of Toucher & RIch not being successful. Go to the streets of Boston (bars, concerts, colleges, sporting events,ect.) and you will a large amount of people that are fans of TnR. They are becoming a well known name here, and in my opinion put out a better product than O&A (and im a big O&A fan).

As far as the ratings being posted here, I would like to see the source...as I believe these are of 12+ and not of the 18-44 yr old males that TnR get their bonuses for.


My apologies. My statement re: "wouldn't call successful" were directed at the report that O&A were considered successful. A recent report has them cuming 172k nationwide. That's significantly less than some stations in Boston alone.

And that's really not O&A's fault so much as the failure of satellite to gain a legitimate foothold. With regard to T&R, I hear they've made great gains. Good for them. I am not privvy to the numbers, nor is it my place to critique.

Sorry for the confusion.
 
Kaliber said:
Spillot.

You are now and have been lieing through this whole thread about T&R's ratings. You just posted that they were 14th place their demo.

WHEN? Show us evidence that they have EVER even been NEAR 14th place M18-44.

I'm waiting. You can't do it because it's not true. You obviously have a personal vendetta against the show and have no problem spreading false information in order to slander them.

I'm waiting for those numbers.

The Boston book comes out today right?

Let the numbers manipulation begin!!!!

:)
 
Neanderpaul,

I also grew up very very very poor. My assesment is based up on my personal experience and is not racist in any way. I know a lot of inner city young men who are white and black they overwhelmingly (sp?) listen to hip hop and WJMN. They also overwhelmingly live at home with thier families who have home phones. I also know a lot of suburban males who true are mostly white who live on campus or have moved out into thier own apartment and do not have a home phone, only a cell phone. Thier parents still have home phones but they don't. They overwhelmingly listen to alt/rock and WBCN in particular.

The fact that young men of a higher income bracket tend to (in my experience) move away from home and not get home phone service does make a HUGE difference in the ratings. A large segment of the listenership of these alt/rock stations are not being measured. It is very simple. It is not racist, it is fact as I have personally seen it.

If two stations both have the same number of listeners but stations ones listenership mostly has home telephone service while station two's mostly does not have home telephone service it is going to cause a descrepancy in the ratings, and the numbers will not truthfully reflect the listenership.

It is funny how if I said that lower income or as Neanderpaul wants to make the assumption black people were somehow being slighted by the system that would be OK and I would be a champion for peoples rights, but god forbid I point out a situation where they may actually have an advantage and all of a sudden I am a racist! I have discussed this with my black friends and they not only agree with me that it is logical and makes very good sense they do not see how it is racist at all.

If I had said that the Oldies station has better numbers because more old people have home phones would you still have made the same complaint?
 
Oh and also the O and A comment was about the NEW YORK CITY MARKET TERRESTRIAL RADIO RATINGS, not Satellite. Maybe you have'nt heard that Opie and Anthony are on CBS Radio in New York? WXRK FM?
 
Kaliber said:
You are now and have been lieing through this whole thread about T&R's ratings.

I'm starting to think the T&R fans are all dillusional.

Facts are stubborn things....

Let's review...

'Deadman' posted this claim (twice):

deadman said:
#1 afternoon drive 25-54 in Boston... I am in Atlanta, but I still keep up with Fred, Rich, and Crash.

And someone else said:

NSPUNX said:
They are no. 1 out of the Rock/Alt stations where they have beaten AAF, FNX, GNR, HEB in every book.

So now you ask:

Kaliber said:
WHEN? Show us evidence that they have EVER even been NEAR 14th place.

I'm waiting. You can't do it because it's not true.

I'm waiting.

In Fall of 2006, A25-54, 3-7PM.....WAAF and T&R are tied in 14th place.

(Mike-FM with no jocks is 12th.)

(25-54 was the demo the original poster made the claim about.)

Kaliber said:
You obviously have a personal vendetta against the show and have no problem spreading false information in order to slander them.

As I stated earlier.....I have made no judgment about their show.

I just wanted to make sure the wild claims being made over and over of them being #1, 25-54, every book did not go unchallenged.
 
NSPUNX said:
My assesment is based up on my personal experience and is not racist in any way. I know a lot of inner city young men who are white and black they overwhelmingly (sp?) listen to hip hop and WJMN. They also overwhelmingly live at home with thier families who have home phones. I also know a lot of suburban males who true are mostly white who live on campus or have moved out into thier own apartment and do not have a home phone, only a cell phone. Thier parents still have home phones but they don't. They overwhelmingly listen to alt/rock and WBCN in particular.

When you use the phrase: "WJMN's urban audience tends to be lower income" There's a reasonable implication of demographic assessment. Where is it proven that any "urban" audience makes less money? No matter how you try to skew your statement in hindsight, you're making a generalization about the inhabitants of urban areas (the projects). And who tends to be the majority populus of these "urban" areas? Exactly. Spin it as you can now to attempt to diffuse the situation. But, we both know what you meant.

Your response is tantamount to "I can't be a racist..I know lots of black people"


NSPUNX said:
The fact that young men of a higher income bracket tend to (in my experience) move away from home and not get home phone service does make a HUGE difference in the ratings. A large segment of the listenership of these alt/rock stations are not being measured. It is very simple. It is not racist, it is fact as I have personally seen it.

No. Facts can be proven with hard data. I asked you to provide hard data to back up this foolish hypothesis. Until you can provide said data, you continue to come off as ignorant.
You presenting an alleged personal experience as the foundation for a broad-based, completely inaccurate assessment of what you contend is the flawed ratings methodology, is not fact.

NSPUNX said:
If two stations both have the same number of listeners but stations ones listenership mostly has home telephone service while station two's mostly does not have home telephone service it is going to cause a descrepancy in the ratings, and the numbers will not truthfully reflect the listenership.

Can you provide any actual data whatsoever to support this assertion? Can you legitimately show where WJMN benefits from this over WBCN? I, and I'm sure many other would be very interested in this. Until you can...you continue to skew real facts. And the real facts are that JAMN beats WBCN in the ratings. Regularly. And have for a long time.


NSPUNX said:
It is funny how if I said that lower income or as Neanderpaul wants to make the assumption black people were somehow being slighted by the system that would be OK and I would be a champion for peoples rights, but god forbid I point out a situation where they may actually have an advantage and all of a sudden I am a racist! I have discussed this with my black friends and they not only agree with me that it is logical and makes very good sense they do not see how it is racist at all.

"WJMN's urban audience tends to be lower income "

Why the need to use the phrase "urban?" You assume that WJMN is listened to more in urban areas. Statistical data wouls support this assertion But, you didn't provie that. you just said:

"WJMN's urban audience tends to be lower income "

Spin it as you choose. We know what you meant.

NSPUNX said:
If I had said that the Oldies station has better numbers because more old people have home phones would you still have made the same complaint?

Nope. Because age and race are apples and oranges.
 
spilot113 said:
In Fall of 2006, A25-54, 3-7PM.....WAAF and T&R are tied in 14th place.

(Mike-FM with no jocks is 12th.)

(25-54 was the demo the original poster made the claim about.)

this is comical....you are basing your comments on their ratings off the Fall 2006 book?!

They started in June of 2006. Hell i didnt even discover them till November of 2006, and I am now a huge fan. In the Spring 2007 ratings of 18-44 Males they finished 1st, and that was what they recieve bonuses for, in my understanding. Taking their ratings from their first book here does not show a damn thing....hell they were still doing a show from 2-6 pm at that time. So those ratings are even less accurate.
 
Capps said:
spilot113 said:
In Fall of 2006, A25-54, 3-7PM.....WAAF and T&R are tied in 14th place.

(Mike-FM with no jocks is 12th.)

(25-54 was the demo the original poster made the claim about.)

this is comical....you are basing your comments on their ratings off the Fall 2006 book?!

No, just answering some of the wild and unchallenged claims on the board that they....

-Are #1 25-54
-beat WAAF in every book.
-Have never been in 14th place 25-54.

I am not saying they are always in 14th place....again, just responding with facts to the above assertions that were unchallenged and not true.
 
Neanderpaul,

It litterally took me about 30 seconds to find this on the "Housing and Urban Development" website which is part of the united states federal government. This study showed that urban families are more poor than suburban families and that poverty is more frequent among minorities. It also states that middle and upperclass families are moving out of cities to suburbs at huge rates. So there are my facts.

http://www.huduser.org/publications/polleg/tsoc98/part1-2.html


Part One: The State of America's Cities

Finding #2: Despite recent gains, cities still face the triple threat of concentrated poverty, shrinking populations, and middle-class flight that began two decades ago.

Even as the economic health of cities improves, the movement of population -- particularly the middle class -- from city to suburbs continues. This decentralization process has been operating for more than a century, pushing the boundaries of metropolitan areas far from the city and prompting rapid development of outlying counties.
Many factors explain middle-class flight and poverty and racial concentration, from job growth on the suburban fringe to persistent housing discrimination, from the resource and quality advantages of suburban schools to the greater incidence of crime (and greater fear of crime) in the cities. These long-run trends call for concerted action now, while the economy is strong, from leaders in the private, public, and nonprofit sectors working together.

More families of every income level move out of cities than move in, but the disparity is particularly stark among middle- and upper-income families. From 1970 to 1997, nearly 6 million middle-income and affluent families have left the cities. At the same time, between 1985 and 1995, the number of high-income families -- with 150 percent or more of area median income -- living in suburbs grew by 16 percent, compared with just 2 percent for central cities. When families are asked why they leave cities, the two most common answers are the poor quality of city schools and the higher rates of crime in cities as compared with suburbs.

As families with the resources to do so move to suburban areas in search of better housing, good schools, and safer neighborhoods, income growth in the city lags suburban income growth. In the Northeast and Midwest, the 1996 median household income in the suburbs was 67 percent higher than in central cities, up from the 58- percent gap reported in 1989. City/suburb income disparities were less in the South and the West. Even so, in 1996 suburban incomes were 31 percent higher than central city incomes, up sharply from the 1989 figure of 22 percent.


Poverty Is More Frequent and Affects More Minorities in Cities

While cities contain 30 percent of metropolitan America's population, they are home to half of all low-income families in metropolitan areas.18 This concentration of poverty in cities persists even as overall poverty declines. Poverty rates in central cities rose steadily from 1970 to 1993, increasing by 50 percent. Even with the drop in central city poverty rates since 1993, 1 in every 5 city families lived in poverty in 1996, compared with fewer than 1 in 10 suburban families. And there is a growing dichotomy in rates of minority poverty. While the rate of African-American poverty is at its lowest level in history, poverty in cities disproportionately affects minority populations -- 72 percent of the poor in cities are minority.


Poverty Remains Highly Concentrated in Selected Neighborhoods

Lack of affordable housing opportunities in the suburbs combined with persistent housing market discrimination adds to the concentration of poor families in central city neighborhoods. More than 10 percent of all city residents live in neighborhoods where the U.S. Bureau of the Census reports that 40 percent or more of the households are living below the poverty line, doubling the concentration in 1970. In many of these places, intense and long-standing poverty and welfare dependency occur simultaneously with alarmingly high rates of crime, drug abuse, single parenthood, high school drop out rates, and other social problems.
 
When it makes common sense and relates with what I have seen with my own eyes, and relates with my personal experience then, Yes. I do.

I say lets just wait and see... If I am so wrong then a new measurement system won't make any difference and WJMN will continue to be the #1 station 12+ all dayparts in this market because of thier original and entertaining programming. I mean come on, who doesnt love fake prank phone call "Jam Scams"!
 
I didn't mean to start a firestorm here. I don't know what their ratings are or who the competition is, but I do know if T & R (and Crash) are half as good as they were in Atlanta, it won't be long before they are #1 there. For those who haven't tried them, give them a chance.
 
Most recent ratings don't have T&R in the top 10 P 25-54

I'm not slamming them at all. Just pointing out fact.

I'm sure they're targeted toward males, and when you take females out, they probably rank better.
 


And market size has nothing to do with the quality of radio being done there, or the listening habits of radio listeners.


[/quote]


now that.....is a true statement....there are some awesome stations around this country that don't get the recognition they deserve
 
getting this thing back on track......Toucher & Rich are one of the best shows in Boston, IMO....only show I have ever found myself listening to all 4 hours, even O&A I fade in and out of.
 
MOVED: TIO: Toucher, Rich and Crash in Boston?

Some posts in this topic have been moved to Take It Outside.

[iurl=http://www.radio-info.com/smf/index.php?topic=98853.0]http://www.radio-info.com/smf/index.php?topic=98853.0[/iurl]
 
It comes down to this:

Rock stations have (so far) shown increases through PPM. We'll see if the alleged wrongs are righted when it's rolled out in Boston.

Right now:

Larger populus in metropolitan areas = higher number of cell phone customers in ratio to suburban populations + higher percentage of lower income families = more pre-paid wireless customers due to inability to pass credit check and receive home phone service = ratings distortion.

T&R may, or may not benefit from this. We will find out.
 
And AGAIN, I will ask...how will Toucher and Rich or anyone benfit from PPM with regard to the home phone / cell phone issue? In other words, what does PPM have to do with this part of the Arbitron discussion?
 
readingradio said:
And AGAIN, I will ask...how will Toucher and Rich or anyone benfit from PPM with regard to the home phone / cell phone issue? In other words, what does PPM have to do with this part of the Arbitron discussion?

It has been suggested that when PPM is employed, T&R will increase in ratings.

To be honest...as talent, we should be VERY concerned about PPM. Apparently they can monitor EXACTLY when people drop off. We'll know what works, what doesn't and what songs are tuneouts.

Double-edged sword it is...
 
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