WATO gone for good...

[Raingus]

Reality. There are too many other avenues of entertainment and information these days. Local radio worked extremely well when there was no cable TV, DirecTV, satellite radio, ipods, THE INTERNET and the list goes on. And yes, it can still work today. But remember only the strong survive. Had this outlet not fallen into irrelevency, it might still be able to stand its own. But if that were the case there would still be a thriving operation and not a dilapidated remnant of yesteryear. Time marches on. WATO is gone the way of the 8 track. I love that reference to a "used typewriter salesman!" What's a typewriter, daddy???

All true unfortunately.

I don't know about anyone else, but I would gladly give up these other avenues of entertainment and information just to have things back to the way they use to be.

However, I know that's never going to happen, and things will never be the same again.

 

[scottwmro]

Reality. There are too many other avenues of entertainment and information these days. Local radio worked extremely well when there was no cable TV, DirecTV, satellite radio, ipods, THE INTERNET and the list goes on. And yes, it can still work today. But remember only the strong survive. Had this outlet not fallen into irrelevency, it might still be able to stand its own. But if that were the case there would still be a thriving operation and not a dilapidated remnant of yesteryear. Time marches on. WATO is gone the way of the 8 track. I love that reference to a "used typewriter salesman!" What's a typewriter, daddy???

All true unfortunately.

I don't know about anyone else, but I would gladly give up these other avenues of entertainment and information just to have things back to the way they use to be.

However, I know that's never going to happen, and things will never be the same again.

I have an idea. Why not some of you on this board partner together and pool your money together and pay Horne what he wants for WATO. I would help, but I have enough going on with my station here in Gallatin.

Some of you on here go to church, I'm sure. Why not a church jump in and help buy it for thier broadcast Sunday worship services, the football games, and programs for the community.

There are ways to get the station back on the air with an STA from the FCC from another transmitter location. Don't just sit here on this board and feel sad over it. YOU can do something!

Call me if I can be a help to you who are interested. Keep small town AM radio on and alive in America! You CAN save WATO if you want to!

Scott Bailey
WMRO Radio, Gallatin, TN

 

[radioguybroadcasting]

I have an idea. Why not some of you on this board partner together and pool your money together and pay Horne what he wants for WATO. I would help, but I have enough going on with my station here in Gallatin.

Some of you on here go to church, I'm sure. Why not a church jump in and help buy it for thier broadcast Sunday worship services, the football games, and programs for the community.

There are ways to get the station back on the air with an STA from the FCC from another transmitter location. Don't just sit here on this board and feel sad over it. YOU can do something!

Call me if I can be a help to you who are interested. Keep small town AM radio on and alive in America! You CAN save WATO if you want to!

Scott Bailey
WMRO Radio, Gallatin, TN

You could get it back on an STA, but how long and how much would it take to find land for a 3 tower array again?

Finding land and getting up one tower for an STA (assume you build a new tower and buy the land) would cost over $30K.. then bui.lding the 3 new towers and assuming you need to buy more land, would be another $150k...

Then you'd have to buy new studio equipment and a transmitter

I'd love to see WATO come back, but you really have to wonder if it's financially fesible because anyone whod buy just the license could probably count on not breaking even for a little while.

 

[SuperQ]

You would never re-build the 3 tower array. One tower would give you a little over 2K days and between 25-30 watts at night. In the middle of town, that would theoretically do about as well as the old 500 watt night signal over most of town.

The problem is that the nighttime noise floor couldn't be penetrated with 25 watts because a certain nameless unidentified station on 1290 (in Clay Co Ky) likes to leave their transmitter at daytime power when they have a ball game. It's a very congested nighttime channel even everyone is playing nice.

 

[radioguybroadcasting]

You would never re-build the 3 tower array. One tower would give you a little over 2K days and between 25-30 watts at night. In the middle of town, that would theoretically do about as well as the old 500 watt night signal over most of town.

The problem is that the nighttime noise floor couldn't be penetrated with 25 watts because a certain nameless unidentified station on 1290 (in Clay Co Ky) likes to leave their transmitter at daytime power when they have a ball game. It's a very congested nighttime channel even everyone is playing nice.

How do you figure you could get between 2000 and 2500 Watts Day off one tower if the old license was for 5KW from 2 towers?

 

[SuperQ]

The station has to principally protect 1300 in Morristown in the daytime. The power in the direction of Morristown was a little over 2000 watts on the old pattern. At night the power in the most tightly protected null was about 25 watts. The rules, the conductivity, the other stations ground systems have all changed since the WATO pattern was designed and licensed.

Truth to tell, if it were me, I would have just applied for 1 KW non-directional. No one outside Oak Ridge will ever listen anyway, and the price difference between a 1KW and 2.5 KW transmitter would have paid for a lot of copper in the ground.

BTW I now know of three people who have made offers for just the license ranging from 1 grand to 10K. Horne apparently will just turn in the license if he doesn't get his 25K.

 

[radioguybroadcasting]

The station has to principally protect 1300 in Morristown in the daytime. The power in the direction of Morristown was a little over 2000 watts on the old pattern. At night the power in the most tightly protected null was about 25 watts. The rules, the conductivity, the other stations ground systems have all changed since the WATO pattern was designed and licensed.

Truth to tell, if it were me, I would have just applied for 1 KW non-directional. No one outside Oak Ridge will ever listen anyway, and the price difference between a 1KW and 2.5 KW transmitter would have paid for a lot of copper in the ground.

BTW I now know of three people who have made offers for just the license ranging from 1 grand to 10K. Horne apparently will just turn in the license if he doesn't get his 25K.

But, how do we know that WATO wasn't grandfathered in...... however, I do agree that 1KW non directional was possible, however 25 watts at night would be nearly useless due to NIF and ground conductivity.

A 1KW Transmitter can run you about $10,000 but a 3KW would run you something like $30K.

Horne Broadcasting themselves told me they wanted $25K, but had a local man offer less.. but turned him down.

I have a feeling when the license is about 2 months from being dead, they'll file to sell it for less.. that person will get an 18 month extension and so on..

 

[SuperQ]

Theres no grandfathering here. WMTN measured to go 5kw and then from DA to ND in the early 70's.

There is no guarantee of 18 months for someone new. That applies to new CP's. I suspect a new owner could get a waiver and some more time rather than allow a station to go dark. But remember, in the FCC's eyes, both 100.3 and 94.3 are Oak Ridge stations.

I think Horne's idea is to eliminate a potential competitor rather than "give it away." He has no interest in the people of Oak Ridge.

Someone might get the license and move it to Farragut and that would not serve his interests. So pony up 25K or let it die.

 

[radioguybroadcasting]

There is no guarantee of 18 months for someone new. That applies to new CP's. I suspect a new owner could get a waiver and some more time rather than allow a station to go dark. But remember, in the FCC's eyes, both 100.3 and 94.3 are Oak Ridge stations.

SBA defined small businesses are getting 18 month extensions for unbuilt CPs.. I have a feeling you could use that argument to rebuild a silent WATO.

That being said, you could file for an STA to operate with a unipole, longwire or inverted V at 500W Day/50 Watts Night, build and be on the air with programming in less then a week if you had to.

STA's for non directional operation of a former directional array are usually 10 percent of the DA's power.

 

[fybush]

SBA defined small businesses are getting 18 month extensions for unbuilt CPs.. I have a feeling you could use that argument to rebuild a silent WATO.

That being said, you could file for an STA to operate with a unipole, longwire or inverted V at 500W Day/50 Watts Night, build and be on the air with programming in less then a week if you had to.

STA's for non directional operation of a former directional array are usually 10 percent of the DA's power.

The 18-month extensions don't apply in this scenario, because what would be extended is not a CP (WATO is licensed, after all) but the STA to remain silent.

But here's the problem: the FCC cannot, by Congressional mandate, extend the 12-month silent period after which a station is automatically deleted for good. So unless Horne (or a theoretical purchaser of the WATO license) gets something back on the air by March 2009, however temporarily it might be, the license is gone and there's nothing anyone at the FCC can do about it.

 

[MikeBeverly]

I don't lurk around here very often, but I thought I would drop in my two cents worth. Scott is right, the time bomb is ticking on WATO. I'm one of the people that made a low bid for the license. Given the uncertainty of getting it back on by March, paying much more than a couple of grand would be a pretty risky investment for that license.

I'm the one who bought that station for Horne when I built and managed that group (not one of my better days). I couldn't get the towers fixed because no one would climb them. The land had some environmental issues, and most significantly, Oak Ridge is an absolutely wretched retail market. Virtually all of the retail sales go to chains or multi-location stores that consider themselves Knoxville area businesses. The car dealers would tell you flat out they didn't care about Oak Ridge. The old line merchants just wanted to moan about good things used to be in the 70's.

Before leaving Horne I tried to get him to dump WATO at a loss before all the problems imploded. He chose not to.

I know some people have suggested putting it on the 1550 tower. I worked there in the 70's when the ground system was continually ripped out of the ground. With all the tower size trees around the tower now, any copper still left in the ground would be mangled. So a short tower with no ground system wouldn't pass muster. It would cost as much to make the 1550 tower useable as it would be to just build a new one.

Despite its size, Oak Ridge's unique demographics, proximity to Knoxville, total alienation from the rest of Anderson County all make it a town that doesn't really need a radio station.

In defense of Doug Horne, if I owned small radio stations I wouldn't just give the license away either. It could be moved to Farragut and compete with his existing station, or moved to Knoxville and paired with a translator and go AAA to compete with 105.3. Why would he want to take that risk for a a couple of grand. But if it were me, I would move 1290 to the 670 tower, change its COL to Farragut and maybe change 670's COL to Friendsville or some other unserved town. For the cost of a diplexer, he would keep 1290 alive in case it ever had any value in the future. It wouldn't help the Oak Ridge Football fans, but Doug went to Farragut.

Just my perspective. RIP WATO.

 

[radioguybroadcasting]

I'm kinda curious here, but why is Horne such a BAD operator?

 

[Raingus]

I'm kinda curious here, but why is Horne such a BAD operator?

Horne also didn't know how to manage 105.3 back when they were doing all 80's. He screwed that station up IMO.

Never once did they promote MAX 105.3 on any billboards, bumper stickers, or tshirts. Plus he thought he could go up against the River when he changed the station to a AAA format with his low watt FM after Citadel took over 100.3-FM just a few years ago. What a dumb move that was!

Too bad the smart guys can't afford to purchase radio stations. The wrong people are the one's who have the money.

 

[radioguybroadcasting]

I'm kinda curious here, but why is Horne such a BAD operator?

Too bad the smart guys can't afford to purchase radio stations. The wrong people are the one's who have the money.

I've been saying something similar for YEARS.

The folks who most deserve to own a station or two can't afford it..

 

[knoxbob]

But remember, in the FCC's eyes, both 100.3 and 94.3 are Oak Ridge stations.



Didn't 94.3 get a CP for a new COL in Powell? But that still leaves 100.3 for O.R.

 

[scottwmro]

I don't lurk around here very often, but I thought I would drop in my two cents worth. Scott is right, the time bomb is ticking on WATO. I'm one of the people that made a low bid for the license. Given the uncertainty of getting it back on by March, paying much more than a couple of grand would be a pretty risky investment for that license.

I'm the one who bought that station for Horne when I built and managed that group (not one of my better days). I couldn't get the towers fixed because no one would climb them. The land had some environmental issues, and most significantly, Oak Ridge is an absolutely wretched retail market. Virtually all of the retail sales go to chains or multi-location stores that consider themselves Knoxville area businesses. The car dealers would tell you flat out they didn't care about Oak Ridge. The old line merchants just wanted to moan about good things used to be in the 70's.

Before leaving Horne I tried to get him to dump WATO at a loss before all the problems imploded. He chose not to.

I know some people have suggested putting it on the 1550 tower. I worked there in the 70's when the ground system was continually ripped out of the ground. With all the tower size trees around the tower now, any copper still left in the ground would be mangled. So a short tower with no ground system wouldn't pass muster. It would cost as much to make the 1550 tower useable as it would be to just build a new one.

Despite its size, Oak Ridge's unique demographics, proximity to Knoxville, total alienation from the rest of Anderson County all make it a town that doesn't really need a radio station.

In defense of Doug Horne, if I owned small radio stations I wouldn't just give the license away either. It could be moved to Farragut and compete with his existing station, or moved to Knoxville and paired with a translator and go AAA to compete with 105.3. Why would he want to take that risk for a a couple of grand. But if it were me, I would move 1290 to the 670 tower, change its COL to Farragut and maybe change 670's COL to Friendsville or some other unserved town. For the cost of a diplexer, he would keep 1290 alive in case it ever had any value in the future. It wouldn't help the Oak Ridge Football fans, but Doug went to Farragut.

Just my perspective. RIP WATO.

Some thoughts here:

Find one acre of ground OR on top of a large, flat roof factory building, put up a Valcom Antenna, made in Canada, and apply for an STA for 500 watts daytime and 25 watts night. The tower/antenna site should be located close into the city of license. Someone who has the smarts and money, who believes in AM could pay Horne off and make this work. It needs to stay in the community that it has been licensed to.

There has got to be some tower in Oak Ridge that can be leased to operate a "slant wire feed" into. I saw pictures of a station on 1220 in Southwest Florida that had an STA to operate a slant wire feed onto a cell tower at 250 watts. The station got out everywhere!

If the 1550 tower was proposed to be used, put a folded unipole on it. Folded Unipoles are known to work good with a limited or no ground system. A ground system? Put out 5 #10 wires out from the tower, and that will help the folded unipole for a good start until a good ground system can be put in place. Gee, we can buy the #10 copper at Home Depot or Lowes. A folded unpole can be put on the tower with things from the hardware store.

Studio???? Gee that's easy. Put it in somebody's house until office space is found at a good price for studios and offices.

Now about the time we get through, your talking about spending anywhere from 50 to 100K, but that's cheap compaired to IF Doug Horne owned the property the three towers where at, and the station was on the air, in tack. If that was the case, Horne would ask for way more than 25K.

Yea, I know it's like starting over again, but in time, the station could be back on, and one must take it one day at a time as far a progress goes to get it back to full max.

What's so hard about this on the tech side? I guess it's money on everyone's part, and that I truly understatnd!

Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[radioguybroadcasting]

I don't lurk around here very often, but I thought I would drop in my two cents worth. Scott is right, the time bomb is ticking on WATO. I'm one of the people that made a low bid for the license. Given the uncertainty of getting it back on by March, paying much more than a couple of grand would be a pretty risky investment for that license.

I'm the one who bought that station for Horne when I built and managed that group (not one of my better days). I couldn't get the towers fixed because no one would climb them. The land had some environmental issues, and most significantly, Oak Ridge is an absolutely wretched retail market. Virtually all of the retail sales go to chains or multi-location stores that consider themselves Knoxville area businesses. The car dealers would tell you flat out they didn't care about Oak Ridge. The old line merchants just wanted to moan about good things used to be in the 70's.

Before leaving Horne I tried to get him to dump WATO at a loss before all the problems imploded. He chose not to.

I know some people have suggested putting it on the 1550 tower. I worked there in the 70's when the ground system was continually ripped out of the ground. With all the tower size trees around the tower now, any copper still left in the ground would be mangled. So a short tower with no ground system wouldn't pass muster. It would cost as much to make the 1550 tower useable as it would be to just build a new one.

Despite its size, Oak Ridge's unique demographics, proximity to Knoxville, total alienation from the rest of Anderson County all make it a town that doesn't really need a radio station.

In defense of Doug Horne, if I owned small radio stations I wouldn't just give the license away either. It could be moved to Farragut and compete with his existing station, or moved to Knoxville and paired with a translator and go AAA to compete with 105.3. Why would he want to take that risk for a a couple of grand. But if it were me, I would move 1290 to the 670 tower, change its COL to Farragut and maybe change 670's COL to Friendsville or some other unserved town. For the cost of a diplexer, he would keep 1290 alive in case it ever had any value in the future. It wouldn't help the Oak Ridge Football fans, but Doug went to Farragut.

Just my perspective. RIP WATO.

Some thoughts here:

Find one acre of ground OR on top of a large, flat roof factory building, put up a Valcom Antenna, made in Canada, and apply for an STA for 500 watts daytime and 25 watts night. The tower/antenna site should be located close into the city of license. Someone who has the smarts and money, who believes in AM could pay Horne off and make this work. It needs to stay in the community that it has been licensed to.

There has got to be some tower in Oak Ridge that can be leased to operate a "slant wire feed" into. I saw pictures of a station on 1220 in Southwest Florida that had an STA to operate a slant wire feed onto a cell tower at 250 watts. The station got out everywhere!

If the 1550 tower was proposed to be used, put a folded unipole on it. Folded Unipoles are known to work good with a limited or no ground system. A ground system? Put out 5 #10 wires out from the tower, and that will help the folded unipole for a good start until a good ground system can be put in place. Gee, we can buy the #10 copper at Home Depot or Lowes. A folded unpole can be put on the tower with things from the hardware store.

Studio???? Gee that's easy. Put it in somebody's house until office space is found at a good price for studios and offices.

Now about the time we get through, your talking about spending anywhere from 50 to 100K, but that's cheap compaired to IF Doug Horne owned the property the three towers where at, and the station was on the air, in tack. If that was the case, Horne would ask for way more than 25K.

Yea, I know it's like starting over again, but in time, the station could be back on, and one must take it one day at a time as far a progress goes to get it back to full max.

What's so hard about this on the tech side? I guess it's money on everyone's part, and that I truly understatnd!

Just my 2 cents worth.

These days, no ones going to let you put a tower on their roof like that.......

I'd like to see WATO saved, but I just don't think it makes much economic sense....... 25 watts won't get you crap at night, with the NIF and the poor ground conductivity.

 

[scottwmro]

Do you know what a Valcom Antenna is? Those CAN be placed on top of a large factory building. They are fiberglass, coil loaded antennas. They look like flagpoles. I would think a deal could be struck with a large factory to put up three of them, only catch is the I don't think the FCC has approved them for directional use with out going out of the way to do a proof of performance application.

Radioguy....this is just an idea to save the license. If it was me, just get 1 Valcom and keep it on the air until a good piece of property could be had to put up three towers. Time is ticking away for Mr. Horne.

I saw where he filed an STA to keep the station slient, but the FCC does expect it to get back on in some form or fashion, but if that doesn't happen, the license is gone for good until another AM window opens back up and I doubt that will happen anytime in the next 10 years or so. The last one that the FCC opened was in 2004.

I know 25 watts is not much at night, especially for the ballgames, but just keeping the license active with a Valcom Antenna until a good piece of property could be had and approved by local zoning to put up three towers is the way to go, instead of letting that license go away.

 

[radioguybroadcasting]

Do you know what a Valcom Antenna is? Those CAN be placed on top of a large factory building. They are fiberglass, coil loaded antennas. They look like flagpoles. I would think a deal could be struck with a large factory to put up three of them, only catch is the I don't think the FCC has approved them for directional use with out going out of the way to do a proof of performance application.

Radioguy....this is just an idea to save the license. If it was me, just get 1 Valcom and keep it on the air until a good piece of property could be had to put up three towers. Time is ticking away for Mr. Horne.

I saw where he filed an STA to keep the station slient, but the FCC does expect it to get back on in some form or fashion, but if that doesn't happen, the license is gone for good until another AM window opens back up and I doubt that will happen anytime in the next 10 years or so. The last one that the FCC opened was in 2004.

I know 25 watts is not much at night, especially for the ballgames, but just keeping the license active with a Valcom Antenna until a good piece of property could be had and approved by local zoning to put up three towers is the way to go, instead of letting that license go away.

I know EXACTLY what a Valcom Whip Antenna is, they come in two heights.. in the 70 and 70 foot range. I've looked at them for some stations I've been involved with........ a Valcom costs as much as a regular tower and is just about as efficent.

The UPSIDE to a Valcom is it is TECHNICALLY NOT a TOWER, so Town and County Zoning Laws which apply to towers, don't apply to this.

You're right, they haven't been approved for directional use... and I'm not sure the manufacturer has even manufactured them to work in that manner... as I'm sure something more would have to be done to make them work properly in a directional mode.

Put a Valcom on top of a factory? I bet all the steel and metal near by would wreak havoc on the pattern.

Nonetheless, I'm pulling for WATO to be saved. However, I'm just looking at the realities, and costs vs the potential if someone had the station.

WATO was nothing but a computer at a transmitter site along with several of Horne's other stations.

 

[SuperQ]

Scott is right. It would be feasible to throw something up to get the station back on. But both a Valcom and the unipole eventually need a full ground system to get licensed. Forget about ever putting up three towers again. The 500 watt signal didn't cover the West End of Oak Ridge for crap as it was. Putting it in the middle of town would barely get the west and then lose the east.

The problem is, you spend 50-70K on a quick fix just to get an STA, plus the 25K Horne is apparently insisting on to sell the license at all, and you're pretty heavy into a temp fix for a station that may or may not ever be worth much more than 120-150K again. That's not a real strong return on investment for such an iffy proposition.

And the wild card no one has even talked about is the incredibly strict zoning laws in Oak Ridge. A town that prohibits billboards likes to keep its radio towers up near the water tower. You might never get a piece of property in town to pass muster. The only "large factory type" buildings belong to the government. Good Luck with that red tape. Stick it out of town and that 25 watts becomes even more of a non-factor.

Obviously some people were willing to gamble a few grand on it. Not 25K plus the short term expenses and then the long term expense.

Anyone who wants to can call Horne's media guy at 865-675-6397. Put your 25 grand on the table and its yours.