WAVE Goodbye

[michael hagerty]

Inside Radio has an article today on the disappearance of Smooth Jazz.

Smooth Jazz didn't die altogether. CC picked up a syndicated format called "The Smoothest Place on the Planet" for KISQ-FM HD2. In my opinion, it sounds better than the old KKSF, which had been voice-tracked for the last few years, anyway. Of course, you need an HD radio...

Unless somethig changes quickly, Smooth Jazz will easily outlive HD radio.

Which would really be too bad, in my opinion. I wasn't particularly interested in HD radio, but the CD player in my car died, and a replacement with HD was only $20 more than the equivalent unit without HD.

I've checked out XM/Sirius on-line and in rental cars. It's superior, but I don't commute to work by car so I can't justify the extra money, given my alreadly healthy monthly expenses for entertainment (you know: cable TV, high speed internet, NetFlix, going to concerts).

HD is free, I get many more music choices, and they're commercial free so far. At least in the Bay Area, HD has become a refuge for fringe formats...or no longer commercially viable formats that some people still want to hear. Aside from Smooth Jazz, CBS picked up the Dance format for MOViN HD2 when the local dance station flipped formats. I personally don't like Dance music, but I'm glad it's there. We also get 50s-60s Oldies on KOIT HD2, a second classical stream, Classic Country, and Classic Hits (70s), among others.

I'm hoping more people will pick up on HD2, and it will morph into a viable money-maker - kind of like the FM band in the 60s.

Llew:
I'm not hoping for HD to die, but it just strikes me as the ultimate chicken/egg kind of thing.

It's cool to listen to because it's commercial-free.

It's commercial-free because not enough people are listening to make it worth anything in ad sales.

Unlike FM, nobody's rushing to make HD a free part of radio receivers. The few automakers that offer it have it as a $300 option. If they can get it down to $20 like your aftermarket unit, that'll be a big step.

BUT:

If it's a failure...if listeners and revenue don't come (and probably fairly soon), there's no incentive for broadcasters to continue.

If it's a success and becomes a revenue generator, then it will have to respond to the same forces that drive FM today...demographics and agency buyers. Which will kill diversity of formats and deep playlists in a heartbeat.

And what then? You'll have what you have on FM now, but with better (depending on how many streams you're running off the bandwidth) fidelity. If FM listeners flock to HD, will FM become a ghetto like AM? Do we turn off analog radio as we have analog TV? If so, we've reduced coverage areas and effectively eliminated service to listeners who get signals today.

Enjoy it while you've got it, Llew (I do on the rare occasions I have a test vehicle with HD)...because either way HD goes, it won't be like this for long.

 

[SuperRadioFan]

I see this as HD vs Internet radio.... Which will achieve wide-scale acceptance first? My money is on the Internet as portability becomes more commonplace.

 

[leethalweapon]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't HD radio detract from the main game? I notice that CBS is streaming some of their more popular brands on HD. Does this not damage the existing station.

 

[michael hagerty]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't HD radio detract from the main game? I notice that CBS is streaming some of their more popular brands on HD. Does this not damage the existing station.

I would think so. You need to remember that only a few hundred Portable People Meters exist in the L.A. market. So what happens if four or five of those people who currently listen to KROQ decide they like the KAMP HD2 feed of Sophie (CBS San Diego) and start listening? You've reduced KROQ's cume but not increased Sophie's to a level where it's salable. You're taking audience from where they are currently making you money and moving them to a place where they won't.

It would be kind of like owning a restaurant and feeding the customers free food while they wait for their tables. Some will get full and leave and those that stick around will order, eat and pay for less.

 

[michael hagerty]

I see this as HD vs Internet radio.... Which will achieve wide-scale acceptance first? My money is on the Internet as portability becomes more commonplace.

I agree. Internet radio is limitless variety and won't be under the economic pressures to generate the kind of revenue HD eventually must to survive.

 

[davideduardo]

I would think so. You need to remember that only a few hundred Portable People Meters exist in the L.A. market.

Just a little clarification... there are about 3,500 meters in LA, and the in-tab is on the order of 3,000 (rounding, of course)

What is a little frightening is that if you consider on the 6 to midnight M-Sun, the LA PUR is around 10, that means 300 meters on average are actually hearing something. So a station with a 5 share is getting that share based on 15 meters... and in sales demos like 25-54, a 5 share would be 7 to 9 meters.

 

[leethalweapon]

I would think so. You need to remember that only a few hundred Portable People Meters exist in the L.A. market.

Just a little clarification... there are about 3,500 meters in LA, and the in-tab is on the order of 3,000 (rounding, of course)

What is a little frightening is that if you consider on the 6 to midnight M-Sun, the LA PUR is around 10, that means 300 meters on average are actually hearing something. So a station with a 5 share is getting that share based on 15 meters... and in sales demos like 25-54, a 5 share would be 7 to 9 meters.

That seems hard to believe, considering the population. So, percentage wise, what does one metre represent?

 

[davideduardo]

I would think so. You need to remember that only a few hundred Portable People Meters exist in the L.A. market.

Just a little clarification... there are about 3,500 meters in LA, and the in-tab is on the order of 3,000 (rounding, of course)

What is a little frightening is that if you consider on the 6 to midnight M-Sun, the LA PUR is around 10, that means 300 meters on average are actually hearing something. So a station with a 5 share is getting that share based on 15 meters... and in sales demos like 25-54, a 5 share would be 7 to 9 meters.

That seems hard to believe, considering the population. So, percentage wise, what does one metre represent?

The PPDV in the diary survey was about 1300 (Per Person Diary Value) per diary. There were around 7600 diaries per book (12 weeks) for 10,000,000 persons.

Now there are 3500 for a slightly larger population base, since the PPM is 6+ and the diary is 12+. So the PPMV (I just made that up) is about 3500 persons.

The difference is that the diary was a random probability sample, and a new one at that, every week. The PPM is a panel study with only about 6% to 8% monthly turnover. So, since a panel is prebalanced, it can use far fewer in the sample than a random probability study, and requires less weighting (none in theory) also.

 

[LKellerIII]

Inside Radio has an article today on the disappearance of Smooth Jazz.

Llew:
I'm not hoping for HD to die, but it just strikes me as the ultimate chicken/egg kind of thing.

It's cool to listen to because it's commercial-free.

It's commercial-free because not enough people are listening to make it worth anything in ad sales.

Unlike FM, nobody's rushing to make HD a free part of radio receivers. The few automakers that offer it have it as a $300 option. If they can get it down to $20 like your aftermarket unit, that'll be a big step.

BUT:

If it's a failure...if listeners and revenue don't come (and probably fairly soon), there's no incentive for broadcasters to continue.

If it's a success and becomes a revenue generator, then it will have to respond to the same forces that drive FM today...demographics and agency buyers. Which will kill diversity of formats and deep playlists in a heartbeat.

And what then? You'll have what you have on FM now, but with better (depending on how many streams you're running off the bandwidth) fidelity. If FM listeners flock to HD, will FM become a ghetto like AM? Do we turn off analog radio as we have analog TV? If so, we've reduced coverage areas and effectively eliminated service to listeners who get signals today.

Enjoy it while you've got it, Llew (I do on the rare occasions I have a test vehicle with HD)...because either way HD goes, it won't be like this for long.

Believe it or not, I understand all that, Michael. I realize that HD will fail ultimately (and "ultimately" may be fairly soon) - if it doesn't become commercially viable. And I realize "commercially viable" means that they will need to have commercials.

But I do think it's possible that if it succeeds in some measure, there may still be a greater variety of formats. If you have something in the order of 25 HD2 stations in a large market, it seems obvious that you would have more formats to choose from. How many Classic Rock, Old School, Hip-Hop, CHR and Hot Talk stations can you have anyway? And it's a chance for some 'synergy' if I can use an already overused word. For example, KOIT ("Lite Rock" here) runs 50s-60s Oldies on HD2. The local country station runs classic country on HD2. KDFC, the classical station here is really a classical "hits" station if you will (only the most popular pieces), so they run a more eclectic classical feed on HD2.

As I remember, people were slow to adopt FM in the 60s - after it had been around for more that a decade. People might have had one FM receiver in their home (usually in their big stereo system), but few people had portable radios with FM. Car manufacturers were slow to adopt FM as well. I bought my first 2 new cars in 74 and 77, and both came with an AM only radio , and the dealer didn't even offer an FM tuner as an option. I had to go to aftermarket Hi Fi stores for both.

Of course, it's a different world now with many different entertainment media to choose from, so we'll see. I'm also looking forward to internet radio in cars.

 

[michael hagerty]

I do think it's possible that if it succeeds in some measure, there may still be a greater variety of formats. If you have something in the order of 25 HD2 stations in a large market, it seems obvious that you would have more formats to choose from. How many Classic Rock, Old School, Hip-Hop, CHR and Hot Talk stations can you have anyway? And it's a chance for some 'synergy' if I can use an already overused word. For example, KOIT ("Lite Rock" here) runs 50s-60s Oldies on HD2. The local country station runs classic country on HD2. KDFC, the classical station here is really a classical "hits" station if you will (only the most popular pieces), so they run a more eclectic classical feed on HD2.

Llew:
Logically, you're dead-on. But if HD becomes a revenue source, the ad agencies will be in the driver's seat and formats like 50s and 60s oldies, classic country and eclectic anything won't stand a chance.
So what do they fill that extra space with? Well, I think (again if HD survives) it goes like this: Early on, there will be format dogfights...three, four and five stations slugging it out in the formats with the best demographic and sales potential. Once the shakeout hits, it'll be down to two...and the losers probably turn off their HD2s and claim better quality audio for their HD1s. If over time their bottom lines look significantly better than the other guys, there'll be other stations that do the same....and you end up with what you have now on FM and HD1 with a fraction of those stations running extremely commercial formats on HD2.

 

[RadioStarOne]

Which is why internet radio with it's endless formats to chose from will win the battle and radio stations go the way of the dodo bird. Over the air radio = Limited choices, Internet Radio = Endless choices! Wi-Max Wins at least in the cities.

 

[TheBigA]

Which is why internet radio with it's endless formats to chose from will win the battle and radio stations go the way of the dodo bird. Over the air radio = Limited choices, Internet Radio = Endless choices! Wi-Max Wins at least in the cities.

People prove every day they don't want lots of choices. They just want one choice, the one that has their favorites, whatever that is. They'd prefer "limited choice radio" to simply play more of their favorites, and fewer songs they don't like. That's the attraction of services like Pandora. But just as Springsteen sang about cable TV, internet radio is often infinite choices, with nothing on.

 

[SuperRadioFan]

Which is why internet radio with it's endless formats to chose from will win the battle and radio stations go the way of the dodo bird. Over the air radio = Limited choices, Internet Radio = Endless choices! Wi-Max Wins at least in the cities.

People prove every day they don't want lots of choices. They just want one choice, the one that has their favorites, whatever that is. They'd prefer "limited choice radio" to simply play more of their favorites, and fewer songs they don't like. That's the attraction of services like Pandora. But just as Springsteen sang about cable TV, internet radio is often infinite choices, with nothing on.

In the grocery store that can apply to me. As for choices in music/radio/entertainment I am not in the "one choice" camp at all. There's not a lot of people, granted, who like a variety of music/radio etc. For instance, I don't 'get' the "Twilight" craze. I don't 'get' Lady Gaga. And I also don't care for Pandora as if I will have some software/computer decide that if I like A, well I must like A1 and A2. My Winamp player is full of bookmarked stream URLs, about half are over the air stations and about half are Internet only. Yeh I know I am that exception to the rule. But I don't agree that there's "nothing on". You just have to take a little time in your discovery.

The real test down the line will be how the operators make money out of their hobby. Some stations actually sound professional these days, quite different from just a few years ago.

Re. the thread topic, its a non issue for me. I used to really dig KUTE The Quiet Storm format of the mid-80s. I had heard nothing like it in the NYC metro area when I moved to Orange County from NJ in early 1985. The Quiet Storm was really unique, breaking songs that rock (!) and/or Top 40/CHR and AC stations would play later on. KUTE even played tracks like "Your Latest Trick" from Dire Straits great CD "Brothers in Arms". If the WAVE waved goodbye tomorrow I wouldn't even notice. But if 107.1 The Peak or Legato Cafe.net or Radio Paradise went bye bye, that would be a huge disappointment.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

Anystation that can spot and program "You're Latest Trick" by Dire Straits is OK with me. Here's hoping they played the long version found on the CD.

Of course, as usual with major market radio, what made the great made them go away.

Damn.

 

[recto101]

I think 94.7 KMET could come back soon
or 94.7 The Quiet Storm could be in the running by CBS.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

Anystation that can spot and program "You're Latest Trick" by Dire Straits is OK with me. Here's hoping they played the long version found on the CD.

Of course, as usual with major market radio, what made the great made them go away.

Damn.

Now that I think about it, when KTWV first went on the air in 1987 with their new age format, "You're Latest Trick" was on the playlist for quite awhile. They also played plenty of Steely Dan, particularly all seven tracks off the Aja album.

 

[michael hagerty]

Anystation that can spot and program "You're Latest Trick" by Dire Straits is OK with me. Here's hoping they played the long version found on the CD.

Of course, as usual with major market radio, what made the great made them go away.

Damn.

Now that I think about it, when KTWV first went on the air in 1987 with their new age format, "You're Latest Trick" was on the playlist for quite awhile. They also played plenty of Steely Dan, particularly all seven tracks off the Aja album.

There are a few airchecks of The Wave's first year in circulation. I heard them earlier this year and was reminded why I liked the station in the first place...they played great stuff from artists like Steely Dan, Dire Straits, Joe Jackson, Joni Mitchell, Rickie Lee Jones and Van Morrison in addition to the jazz base.

It seems like once the "smooth jazz" label was affixed, the music got narrower. It's been successful, but I think of the format now as being intended for women older than me...and I'm a 53 year old male who loved The Wave at age 31.

 

[TheBigA]

they played great stuff from artists like Steely Dan, Dire Straits, Joe Jackson, Joni Mitchell, Rickie Lee Jones and Van Morrison in addition to the jazz base.

That's when those artists had current music that was active and popular.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

I think 94.7 KMET could come back soon
or 94.7 The Quiet Storm could be in the running by CBS.

Reality Check says no.

 

[TheBigA]

I think 94.7 KMET could come back soon
or 94.7 The Quiet Storm could be in the running by CBS.

Reality Check says no.

FYI: A radio station in DC owns the rights to the name "Quiet Storm," and any radio station that uses it must pay them a royalty. So don't expect to hear that name used in LA.