Were the radio towers for KNTB 1480 Lakewood removed?

[Kelly A]

KEST San Francisco (1450) does the same thing, with Music of Your Life as filler. As for 1150, I'm surprised they make any money on the brokered format. Keep in mind - the trend has changed, wannabe 'hosts' and 'influencers' are on YouTube and TikTok now.

Paid programming is the only thing keeping the lights on at many AM stations.

 

[SomeRadioGuy]

KEST San Francisco (1450) does the same thing, with Music of Your Life as filler. As for 1150, I'm surprised they make any money on the brokered format. Keep in mind - the trend has changed, wannabe 'hosts' and 'influencers' are on YouTube and TikTok now.

Alot of brokered stations make decent to good money.. not much overhead

These audiences and their programmers are likely going after older folks who arent totally into the social media thing

 

[bobdavcav]

I can't see how brokered stations don't make money. From what I've heard, minimum rates are $100 per hour. That would be $776000 per year. That seems like more than enough money to keep the lights on, though I guess if you buy multiple hours there might be a discount?

 

[davideduardo]

I can't see how brokered stations don't make money. From what I've heard, minimum rates are $100 per hour. That would be $776000 per year. That seems like more than enough money to keep the lights on, though I guess if you buy multiple hours there might be a discount?

For many of those stations, the minimum rate is "whatever we can get". In other words, there is no such thing as a minimum rate.

Several of the posters here who have experience with brokered stations have mentioned that some of the national shows are offering a percentage of the donations from the ZIP Codes that a station covers. In other cases, an hour a day may be as little as $500 a month.

Some local churches or groups will offer a lower rate "until we get a following".

And there are certain times of the day that get more interest than others. Even at $100 for the better hours, it is unlikely that most of those stations gross more than between $250,000 and $350,000 a year. At that level, a station likely has just one employee overseeing the time buyers, and that person is not going to be paid much.

 

[Kelly A]

I can't see how brokered stations don't make money. From what I've heard, minimum rates are $100 per hour. That would be $776000 per year. That seems like more than enough money to keep the lights on, though I guess if you buy multiple hours there might be a discount?

Multiple hours and like anything, it depends on the market and what times are being sold. For example; some guy running a station under an STA with a longwire in his backyard located in Lakewood isn't going to make much. 1150 might sell time for maybe $100 an hour, but even then that's only $1.66 per minute. When you account for site rent, tower maintenance, utilities, insurance, government and legal fees, and amortizing expensive things like transmitter replacement, nobody is getting rich selling paid programming.

 

[bobdavcav]

Hmm. How much does it actually cost to run a station like 1150? I had thought their overhead was probably between $100,000 and $200,000 per year. Am I way too low?

 

[Kelly A]

Hmm. How much does it actually cost to run a station like 1150? I had thought their overhead was probably between $100,000 and $200,000 per year. Am I way too low?

I have no insight into what things like Bellevue taxes, land leases, and maintenance costs represent to that particular station. Utility costs alone are probably close to $2,500 per month, that's close to $30K just for power.
I'd heard a few years ago that Bellevue was talking about building something close to the site that may preclude its ability to operate there. If that eventually becomes the case, it probably wouldn't make sense to continue operations.

 

[Bongwater]

I have no insight into what things like Bellevue taxes, land leases, and maintenance costs represent to that particular station. Utility costs alone are probably close to $2,500 per month, that's close to $30K just for power.
I'd heard a few years ago that Bellevue was talking about building something close to the site that may preclude its ability to operate there. If that eventually becomes the case, it probably wouldn't make sense to continue operations.

So I guess if an application to move 1150 to 880's towers comes in, we'll all finally know if KKNW is bringing in the $$$. I strongly suspect they are. They've been at it for 20 years and if it wasn't, Hubbard would have gotten rid of it by now. Paid programming has also been creeping into KIXI's format. So somebody there believes in it.

And if you think AM radio is almost completely unlistenable now, just wait until it's wall to wall, 540-1700, 24/7-365 gold scams, weird psychic ladies, fake Viagra, jellyfish brain pills, time share rackets. And new and improved Colon Blow.

 

[Kelly A]

So I guess if an application to move 1150 to 880's towers comes in, we'll all finally know if KKNW is bringing in the $$$.

That's already been looked-at. The orientation of the KIXI towers won't work for the directional pattern(s) of 1150.

I strongly suspect they are. They've been at it for 20 years and if it wasn't, Hubbard would have gotten rid of it by now. Paid programming has also been creeping into KIXI's format. So somebody there believes in it.

I'm by no means claiming paid is a money loser. Quite the opposite. It's the only thing keeping some AM stations afloat. And as I already said; nobody is getting rich from paid.

And if you think AM radio is almost completely unlistenable now, just wait until it's wall to wall, 540-1700, 24/7-365 gold scams, weird psychic ladies, fake Viagra, jellyfish brain pills, time share rackets. And new and improved Colon Blow.

Hey, as long as laxative manufacturers want to buy hours and hours of programming on cable, satellite, and derelict AM stations, at least it still has a purpose. Once their agencies figure out that nobody listens to AM, the feeding trough for AM becomes that much more empty. The question is; what happens then?

 

[Mark Roberts]

Paid programming is the only thing keeping the lights on at many AM stations.

KEST also tried to get an FM translator at 104.9, and had it on for a couple of months, until it was hounded off the air by KXSC listeners on the Peninsula who complained of interference. KEST turned in the license rather than deal with the complaints by reducing power significantly.

KEST stays on the air through selling time to ethnic broadcasters, mostly Cantonese-language.

 

[Kelly A]

KEST also tried to get an FM translator at 104.9, and had it on for a couple of months, until it was hounded off the air by KXSC listeners on the Peninsula who complained of interference.

That would suck, considering it isn't inexpensive to put a new translator on the air. Their consulting engineer should have recognized in advance there could be potential interference issue going in. But, just like LPFM, translators are secondary service, vulnerable to this sort of thing.

KEST turned in the license rather than deal with the complaints by reducing power significantly.

In many cases for derelict AM stations, selling off whatever equipment and turning in the license is the only viable option. Stops the bleeding.

KEST stays on the air through selling time to ethnic broadcasters, mostly Cantonese-language.

Hopefully they'll continue paying. Its quite common for many of the foreign language programmers to run out of money and the payments to the station start showing up late, eventually not at all.

 

[Mark Roberts]

The details are in the record for DK285HD. The transmitter location was the KSFB tower near Candlestick, which also diplexes with KEST (after KEST was evicted from its longtime home just off the bay on San Francisco city-owned land). Cavell Mertz did the engineering work. Problem is, FM propagation in the Bay Area can be unpredictable at times due to the terrain and interaction with weather conditions.

Hopefully they'll continue paying. Its quite common for many of the foreign language programmers to run out of money and the payments to the station start showing up late, eventually not at all.

There seems to be enough of an audience for Cantonese-language programming, at least in San Francisco proper and, to a lesser extent, parts of Oakland, for KEST (and KVTO) to keep going. However, I've also heard indications that such an audience skews older and is diminishing.

 

[crainbebo]

So I guess if an application to move 1150 to 880's towers comes in, we'll all finally know if KKNW is bringing in the $$$. I strongly suspect they are. They've been at it for 20 years and if it wasn't, Hubbard would have gotten rid of it by now. Paid programming has also been creeping into KIXI's format. So somebody there believes in it.

I thought 1150 was AT the 880 tower. Which is in the Mercer Slough swamp south of Bellevue. When I lived in Bellevue, 880 and 1150 bled all over the band on several channels day and night.
We're already hearing all of those products and then some in commercial breaks on Coast to Coast and various conservative talk shows. Texas Super Food and Dinovite, anyone?

 

[Kelly A]

I thought 1150 was AT the 880 tower. Which is in the Mercer Slough swamp south of Bellevue. When I lived in Bellevue, 880 and 1150 bled all over the band on several channels day and night.

Both stations are in general proximity swampland, with KIXI being further South:

KKNW 1150:

KIXI 880:

 

[crainbebo]

That's right! KKNW's tower is right off one of the Mercer Slough trails. KIXI is further south near I-90 Exit 9. I think KXPA is diplexed with KKNW. See how many years it's been?

 

[semoochie]

1460 and 1490 are going away, eventually... to make an improved 1480.
It's all in the engineering paperwork in the LMS database

I would like to thank whoever put me back in the system! I have been gone for weeks because I was never sent a confirmation code!

There seems to be some confusion here: 1490 is not going away. 1460 and 1480 are going away. 1490 is moving to 1480 and increasing daytime power!

 

[Kelly A]

I would like to thank whoever put me back in the system! I have been gone for weeks because I was never sent a confirmation code!

There seems to be some confusion here: 1490 is not going away. 1460 and 1480 are going away. 1490 is moving to 1480 and increasing daytime power!

Oooo, pinch me!

Welcome back! I needed to have my ISP 'white-list' the confirmation code E-mails, because they were getting blocked at their end.

 

[TexasTom]

Do you recall what the programming was at the time? Even back in the day, I can’t imagine 1480 getting a ton of listeners.

1480 KQLA definitely didn't run any programming that was of interest to a teenage listener, so I don't recall ever listening to it for more than a few minutes. My vague memory is that it was a mix of soft pop with some specialty block programming. For example, I think that someone in the area ran a weekly hour of German-language programming, and I suspect that was probably on KQLA.

 

[bossbill]

As I recall, the towers were situated somewhere near Lakes High School. Looking on Google maps, it appears that a new neighborhood was constructed in very close proximity to where the towers formerly stood. For that reason, I assume that this station is off the air for good and that the tower site is long gone. Can anyone confirm?

And before anyone else says it, we all know that KNTB probably had fewer listeners than you could count on one hand. I’m just curious if it’s even still on the air in 2023.

Who needs Nielsen ratings when this board knows how many listeners each station has?

 

[Kelly A]

Who needs Nielsen ratings when this board knows how many listeners each station has?

Especially when one can count the number on one hand!