What is up with indie 1031???

[nyc101]

Indie is making more profit than was ever made on those sticks, which is why it continues to survive.
Can anybody here tell me what station could make a better profit on those sticks? AND DONT SAY DANCE!

 

[BACKnUSSR]

Indie is making more profit than was ever made on those sticks, which is why it continues to survive.
Can anybody here tell me what station could make a better profit on those sticks? AND DONT SAY DANCE!

Profit?? I doubt they make much of a "profit" at all.
Its not the format that determines profit, its billing vs. expenses.

However, a format that attracted more listeners would create ratings and thereby
increase billing.

Although, I understand the point that some posters are making regarding the fact that
it's noble that Indie provides different programming than other stations, but, if virtually no one
listens...does it even matter?
If you opened a surf shop in the Sahara desert, I'd bet you'd have the best, coolest surf shop there...but who really cares....
Meanwhile KIIS is selling bottles of water...how predictable.

 

[hamNcheese]

Doesnt Indie have a weekend whale farting show?? I believe so.

Jonsey has played whale sounds at times as background while he is talking...one day he commented "I think that one just farted".

crazy english bastard!

 

[nyc101]

Can somebody provide information to prove that the 103.1's are capable of bringing in more revenue than they have been for the past 5 years?

I believe you will find no other format has performed as well on those sticks.

 

[ronkaram]

This discussion about the ratings at 103.1, the signal, the formats, etc., I see one thing left out, and David would have some answers. Nobody brings up that 103.1 was also Superestrella. If I remember correctly, Superestrella got ratings around 1.2, and they were locked in a battle with Viva 107.1 which had about the same ratings. Then when Big City bit the dust, they bought 107.1 and moved Superestrella there, and thats when they switched to KDL. They might have had higher ratings at 103.1 if 107.1 had a different format.

What I wish would have happened was that Big City would have switched Viva to a clone of thier Energy 92.7 & 5 in Chicago. I still think that was the best dance station the US ever had. If then Big City would have sold off the country station in New York City, then may have been able to make thier loan payments and both LA and Chicago may have had dance stations, as Energy in Chicago floated between 1.0 and 1.2, and they may have done as well on 107.1. Not that these are spectacular ratings, but not everybody can be on top.

 

[davideduardo]

This discussion about the ratings at 103.1, the signal, the formats, etc., I see one thing left out, and David would have some answers. Nobody brings up that 103.1 was also Superestrella. If I remember correctly, Superestrella got ratings around 1.2, and they were locked in a battle with Viva 107.1 which had about the same ratings.

Superestrella added the 103.1 signals in a simulcast with 97.5, the main Superestrella signal for LA. The 103.1 signals added nearly nothing to the 97.5 numbers.

What I wish would have happened was that Big City would have switched Viva to a clone of thier Energy 92.7 & 5 in Chicago. I still think that was the best dance station the US ever had. If then Big City would have sold off the country station in New York City, then may have been able to make thier loan payments and both LA and Chicago may have had dance stations, as Energy in Chicago floated between 1.0 and 1.2, and they may have done as well on 107.1. Not that these are spectacular ratings, but not everybody can be on top.

I saw the book on Energy when it was for sale. It did not make money.

 

[hamNcheese]

You guys are hysterical. Dont know what all the hate is for indie from USSR, but its amusing. Indielover is def carrying the pom poms.

Indie, in alt rock radio circles is viewed as an incredible station. Anybody who has anything to do with Alt rock radio on any level will tell you the same. If they dont, they are jaded or oblivious. Any programmer/talent would love to pull off somthing similar. Hollyhood is probably the only place in the country that could pull off such a station for obvious reasons. And Im glad for that because it gives hope, and an online listening experience for those who are stuck with dreck for alt radio in other parts of the country/world.

I have to laugh at the arguing over this subject. Face it, indie is good. KROQ is good. 91X is good. 94/9 is good. 987 is good. x1fmradio.com is good. Southern California has more alt rock radio, and damn good alt rock radio choices then anyplace in the country. I dont know if its still around but even 100.1 the edge in Palmdale is good.

Try living in EBFE, listen to their version of Alt rock radio and then you tell me when you think of Indie then. Or any of your Alt radio stations in Southern California.

 

[Board Editor]

MOVED: TIO: What is up with indie 1031???

Some posts in this thread have been moved to Take It Outside.

[iurl=http://www.radio-info.com/smf/index.php?topic=109828.0]http://www.radio-info.com/smf/index.php?topic=109828.0[/iurl]

 

[nyc101]

You "Doubt" ? How about you base yourself on the facts. The facts are that there is no other format that has made a comparable profit on those sticks. If this weren't the case Indie would have been gone long ago.

David, the sales agreement with KDAY ending has taken nothing away from Indie, as it was simply a way for the reps to sell one anothers stations.


What about this post isn't on topic? Why did you need to take it outside? I don't get that.

 

[BACKnUSSR]

You "Doubt" ? How about you base yourself on the facts. The facts are that there is no other format that has made a comparable profit on those sticks. If this weren't the case Indie would have been gone long ago.

David, the sales agreement with KDAY ending has taken nothing away from Indie, as it was simply a way for the reps to sell one anothers stations.


What about this post isn't on topic? Why did you need to take it outside? I don't get that.

It is a BIG assumption that Indie is profitable. Many corporations have "loss leaders".
Why have a sales agreement in a place for a station doing so well in the first place....hmmm.

Does Clear Channel need help selling KIIS or KOST?

 

[davideduardo]

David, the sales agreement with KDAY ending has taken nothing away from Indie, as it was simply a way for the reps to sell one anothers stations..

Entravision has no non-Hispanic sales force in LA. They combined with KDAY because the KDAY operation has a sales staff, and that enabled Indie to have a full sales organization without having to do the hiring, training, etc., as well as building relationships in the media community.

 

[nyc101]

Ussr - Indie's PROFIT is larger than any previous format ever even billed.

I have met with the Indie sales staff and counted 5 AE's, all selling Indie only and neither were spanish language speakers.
I would say you are wrong David that Entravision doesn't have a non-Hispanic sales force in LA.

 

[BACKnUSSR]

Ussr - Indie's PROFIT is larger than any previous format ever even billed.

That is absolutely untrue.
Its been in negative territory for the past 2 years.

 

[nyc101]

Sure if you put the entire cost of all of Entravision's LA operations against it you could make the books look like it's losing money.

Fact is they bill 6-8 million over the past 2 years and their overhead is in the 2's.

You telling me there's another format that can out bill that on those sticks?

 

[davideduardo]

Sure if you put the entire cost of all of Entravision's LA operations against it you could make the books look like it's losing money.

Fact is they bill 6-8 million over the past 2 years and their overhead is in the 2's.

Never run a station, have you? The average sales cost at a small station in LA is going to be over 20% (agency, local and JSA comissions), so if they billed $8 million, around $2 million goes for sales costs alone.

Care to try again?

 

[nyc101]

Sure David,

The 103.1's never billed much more than 2 million in a year before Indie.

So if the sales staff is pulling 2 million a year in salary, I'd say that station is close to 5 times more successful than any other format that was ever on those sticks.

 

[davideduardo]

Sure David,

The 103.1's never billed much more than 2 million in a year before Indie.

So if the sales staff is pulling 2 million a year in salary, I'd say that station is close to 5 times more successful than any other format that was ever on those sticks.

The cost of sales is only in a small percentage made up of sales department salaries. It is made up of agency commissions (even with Indie there is a lot of agency business) at 15%. National rep commissions will be on top of that for any rep firm business, as will the cut for the recently terminated sales agreement with KDAY. Then there are sales person commissions, generally higher for small stations. Then there are sales salaries, including bases, sales managers, sales assistants, etc. Then there are overrides for the sales management (LSM, GSM, NSM, etc). And benfit costs for all sales staff. Sales promotion comes in too, even if it just the cost of printing sales kits and some lunches.

You really should find out a bit more about the expenses of running a station before insisting that a particular station is making tons of money.

 

[Mothership]

I'd say that station is close to 5 times more successful than any other format that was ever on those sticks.

Revenue -wise? Well lets take YOUR quoted numbers (which happen to be substantially off),
and suppose they bill 6-8M (as you suggest) and that other formats billed around 2M.
Well....that's not 5x.

Ratings-wise? They are about the same in cume as Channel 103.1 and less than MARS FM (thats not 5x)

So what "5x more successful" do you mean?


Well lets see, Rave music, AAA, a couple of simulcasts and dance.
I can't imagine any format that would get better ratings than those formats.

If they tried anything that has some mass appeal, it would probably outbill/outrank Indie.

 

[scooty430]

To Eduardo, any station that doesn't make money (preferably boatloads) is a failure. Period.

Correct. No commercial station can continue for long to lose money, as that is what allows the staiton's format to continue.

He is unable to evaluate things based on their artistic merit.

Sure I am, an I have one it. I owned an FM that lost music for years, because I liked it and it served a small group of listeners. But my cluster in that market had 8 other stations, all of which made good profits, so I could, like a patron of the arts, sustain the station. That selom happents.

The idea that other people may not share his greedy, materialistic views really bothers him.

Every business owner, 401-k participant, mutual fund or pension particpant, buyer of insurance, hopes the investment all of these and more represent will produce a profit. That is the system we are part of.

He has zero sympathy for anybody who has a passion for music or a great station.

I have a passion for a great deal of music. It's just not the music you like, and that is the whole lession of this thread: no single kind of music is liked by anything approaching a majority. So there is no radio station that can cater to a large percentage of people in a market.

He believes in pandering to the lowest common denominator in order to make a buck.

As an industry, we look for the largest vulnerable audience segment to serve. We do not look for the smallest one.

He would broadcast tapes of whales farting if he thought it would get a good rating in a good demo.

Were that to become popular, someone would find this out and program it on a station to serve the large group of people who liked it. Same goes for music genres of any kind. Wider, deeper and more listeners beets narrow and esoteric and limited every day.

This is why he hates Indie and seems to openly wish for its demise, and enjoys mocking those who love it.

Wrong. I hope it goes on forever, but logic, the economy and the state of Indies ratings indicate that this is not possible.

Mr. E:

If you ran a station that was unprofitable, or less than profitable, just for the sake of the music, then you are a better man than I thought. I find that admirable.

The problem is in your posts you come off as overly business-oriented, very one-sided, and very (inexplicably) anti-Indie.

If there are other sides to you, then give us the whole you!

 

[davideduardo]

If you ran a station that was unprofitable, or less than profitable, just for the sake of the music, then you are a better man than I thought. I find that admirable.

My first FM, in 1966, was put on the air as a sort of homage to the place I started, WCUY (FM) in Cleveland. I ran it without commercials for a year with a Latin American folklore music / beautiful music hybrid. When too many of my friends wanted to advertise on it, I allowed 6 20" spots an hour, no more.

Then I put on a second station, with all classical which I did not sell ads on. It was my contribution to the diversity of the market, which had about 45 stations in all.

The problem is in your posts you come off as overly business-oriented, very one-sided,

Radio is a business. To put the first and second FMs in an entire country on the air required that I had a number of very profitable AM stations to pay the bills for a long time.

and very (inexplicably) anti-Indie.

I don't dislike Indie. I just don't understand how it gets such rave reviews and such awful ratings. Of course, Sound and Movin get horrible ratings, but neither is a very good station.

If there are other sides to you, then give us the whole you!

The only lasting side to anyone in commercial radio is to make money. Formats like Indie don't do that.

It reminds me of a chat with my broker when I was a pre-teen and wanted to sell something like 5 shares of General Dynamics. The broker asked if I realized how many amazing and wonderful things GD made. I replied that I was aware of all that they made, and that, unfortunately, none of them at the time was money.