Which is the bigger "tune out" factor?

[michael hagerty]

Mister hagerty says that radio stations and advertisers aren't interested in teens the way they were in the 1960s-70s. He's probably right. In the '60s-70s we had Frankie Avalon, Bobby Rydell, Fabian, Paul Peterson, Shelly Fabares, Johnny Crawford, Leif Garrett, Shaun Cassidy, the Osmonds and the Monkees. In the 2000s we have Miley Cyrus, Justin Bieber, Demi Lovato, Cher Lloyd, Selena Gomez, Miranda Cosgrove, Willow Smith, Rachel Crow, One Direction and the Jonas Brothers.

Oh wait.....

Clever. But the facts...well, here are the artists from the Top 10 in Billboard this week and then the artists from the Top 10 in Billboard this week 45 years ago, January 1968....50 years ago, January 1963....and 55 years ago, January 1958:


2013:

1. Bruno Mars (age 27)
2. Taylor Swift (age 23)
3. Rhianna (age 25)
4. Justin Bieber (age 18)
5. Nicki Minaj (age 30)
6. PSY (age 35)
7. Ke$ha (age 25)
8. Maroon 5-lead singer Adam Levine (age 33)
9. Phillip Phillips (age 22)
10.Macklemore (age 29)

Average artist age: 26.7


1968:

1. The Beatles-lead singer Paul McCartney (age 25)
2. The Monkees-lead singer Davy Jones (age 22)
3. John Fred & His Playboy Band-lead singer John Fred (age 26)
4. Gladys Knight & The Pips-lead singer Gladys Knight (age 23)
5. Gary Puckett & The Union Gap-lead singer Gary Puckett (age 25)
6. Smokey Robinson & The Miracles-lead singer Smokey Robinson (age 27)
7. Aretha Franklin (age 25)
8. The American Breed-lead singer Gary Loizzo (age 22)
9. The Fantastic Johnny C (age 24)
10.Joe Tex (age 32)

Average artist age: 25.1


1963:

1. Tornadoes-lead guitarist Alan Caddy (age 22)
2. Steve Lawrence (age 27)
3. Chubby Checker (age 21)
4. Marcy Blaine (age 18)
5. The Four Seasons-lead singer Frankie Valli (age 28)
6. Brook Benton (age 31)
7. Lou Monte (age 45)
8. Elvis Presley (age 27)
9. Bob B. Soxx & The Blue Jeans-lead singer Bobby Sheen (age 21)
10.The Exciters-lead singer Brenda Reid (age 17)

Average artist age: 25.7 (boosted by Lou Monte)


1958:

1. Danny & The Juniors-lead singer Danny Rapp (age 16)
2. Jerry Lee Lewis (age 22)
3. Pat Boone (age 23)
4. Buddy Holly (age 21)
5. Bill Justis (age 31)
6. Elvis Presley (age 22)
7. Jimmie Rodgers (age 24)
8. Bobby Helms (age 24)
9. Sam Cooke (age 26)
10.Ricky Nelson (age 17)

Average artist age: 22.6


Oldest average artist age of that bunch of four? Today's Top 10.

 

[michael hagerty]

Mister hagerty says that radio stations and advertisers aren't interested in teens the way they were in the 1960s-70s. He's probably right. In the '60s-70s we had Frankie Avalon, Bobby Rydell, Fabian, Paul Peterson, Shelly Fabares, Johnny Crawford, Leif Garrett, Shaun Cassidy, the Osmonds and the Monkees. In the 2000s we have Miley Cyrus, Justin Bieber, Demi Lovato, Cher Lloyd, Selena Gomez, Miranda Cosgrove, Willow Smith, Rachel Crow, One Direction and the Jonas Brothers.
Oh wait.....

I promise you they're only getting played if they test well with 18-34 females.

Probably explains why we got stuck with "Elvira" on what was supposedly "pop" radio back in the early '80s. :

Pop radio was always about playing the hits, wherever they came from. And "Elvira" by The Oak Ridge Boys (#1 Country, #5 Hot 100, #8 Adult Contemporary) was part of the boom in country crossovers spurred on by the film "Urban Cowboy", which was supposed to do for country what "Saturday Night Fever" did for disco.

The week "Elvira" peaked at #5 (July 25, 1981), Kenny Rogers' "I Don't Need You" was #6, Juice Newton's "Queen Of Hearts" was #14, Ronnie Milsap's "No Gettin' Over Me" was #16 and Roseanne Cash's "Seven Year Ache" was #22. Eddie Rabbitt's "Step By Step" was the second-highest debuting record on the Hot 100 at #66.

 

[michael hagerty]

Radio may "forget" 45s, but we don't. Those usually go on to become "guilty pleasures" or something like that. ;D Back in the day, radio used to introduce us to those 45s that they would soon go on to "forget."

A good analogy might be TV. I liked Mannix with Mike Connors. I understand it was in syndication after its network run, but I never saw it after it left CBS in 1975 until I noticed it was on DVD at my local library. I checked out the third season and have enjoyed watching an episode here and there in my free time (it'll be due back long before I could ever get through the season, but that's okay). I remembered it all along, because it was a favorite of mine. But I couldn't tell you what every other show on CBS from 1967-1975 was, nor would I want to see them all.

Same goes with movies. There are only a handful from any given year that I might want to re-visit. I don't want to see every one that made the Top 30 box office in Variety from each year of my life.

 

[landtuna]

Oldest average artist age of that bunch of four? Today's Top 10.

With immeasurably less talent as well.

 

[firepoint525]

Radio may "forget" 45s, but we don't. Those usually go on to become "guilty pleasures" or something like that. ;D Back in the day, radio used to introduce us to those 45s that they would soon go on to "forget."

Perhaps you, Oldies76 and others don't forget them. Most people do.

If late-night comics (among other people) would not mock the tastes of others, people would not develop "convenient amnesia" and forget them. It's a form of "peer pressure" that creates guilty pleasures and causes people to deny their own tastes in music.

It's really easy to mock something once it's no longer in style. :

 

[michael hagerty]

Oldest average artist age of that bunch of four? Today's Top 10.

With immeasurably less talent as well.

Which is what 67-year olds of the time said about the artist lists from 1968, 1963 and 1958...

 

[michael hagerty]

Radio may "forget" 45s, but we don't. Those usually go on to become "guilty pleasures" or something like that. ;D Back in the day, radio used to introduce us to those 45s that they would soon go on to "forget."

Perhaps you, Oldies76 and others don't forget them. Most people do.

If late-night comics (among other people) would not mock the tastes of others, people would not develop "convenient amnesia" and forget them. It's a form of "peer pressure" that creates guilty pleasures and causes people to deny their own tastes in music.

It's really easy to mock something once it's no longer in style. :

I'm sorry. Are you suggesting that, if not for peer pressure, everyone would like everything they hear always and forever?

 

[firepoint525]

Mister hagerty says that radio stations and advertisers aren't interested in teens the way they were in the 1960s-70s. He's probably right. In the '60s-70s we had Frankie Avalon, Bobby Rydell, Fabian, Paul Peterson, Shelly Fabares, Johnny Crawford, Leif Garrett, Shaun Cassidy, the Osmonds and the Monkees. In the 2000s we have Miley Cyrus, Justin Bieber, Demi Lovato, Cher Lloyd, Selena Gomez, Miranda Cosgrove, Willow Smith, Rachel Crow, One Direction and the Jonas Brothers.
Oh wait.....

I promise you they're only getting played if they test well with 18-34 females.

Probably explains why we got stuck with "Elvira" on what was supposedly "pop" radio back in the early '80s. :

Pop radio was always about playing the hits, wherever they came from. And "Elvira" by The Oak Ridge Boys (#1 Country, #5 Hot 100, #8 Adult Contemporary) was part of the boom in country crossovers spurred on by the film "Urban Cowboy", which was supposed to do for country what "Saturday Night Fever" did for disco.
The week "Elvira" peaked at #5 (July 25, 1981), Kenny Rogers' "I Don't Need You" was #6, Juice Newton's "Queen Of Hearts" was #14, Ronnie Milsap's "No Gettin' Over Me" was #16 and Roseanne Cash's "Seven Year Ache" was #22. Eddie Rabbitt's "Step By Step" was the second-highest debuting record on the Hot 100 at #66.

'Splains why 1981 was probably my least favorite year for music, at least during my teen years. And I almost never hear any of these on whatever passes for "classic hits" radio these days, so I feel vindicated. You've got to go to classic country radio to hear those anymore. And that is where they belong.

 

[firepoint525]

Radio may "forget" 45s, but we don't. Those usually go on to become "guilty pleasures" or something like that. ;D Back in the day, radio used to introduce us to those 45s that they would soon go on to "forget."

Perhaps you, Oldies76 and others don't forget them. Most people do.

If late-night comics (among other people) would not mock the tastes of others, people would not develop "convenient amnesia" and forget them. It's a form of "peer pressure" that creates guilty pleasures and causes people to deny their own tastes in music.
It's really easy to mock something once it's no longer in style. :

I'm sorry. Are you suggesting that, if not for peer pressure, everyone would like everything they hear always and forever?

I'm sorry, are you going to disagree with EVERYTHING that I say? Personally, my music tastes from 1976 (the year that I was 12, and first started listening to music) are essentially the same as my tastes now. I should go back and look at what 45s I bought back in 1976, and see what I still have. Except that I wore out my 45s from back then, although I have since picked up replacement copies at thrift stores. If anything, I like MORE of the music from 1976 than I actually did IN 1976. My first 45 was "Let Your Love Flow" by the Bellamy Brothers, and it still gets played (on the radio) now. Also picked up Steve Miller Band 45s that year, as well as the Beach Boys and even the Beatles. Good times, for sure.

 

[davideduardo]

deny their own tastes in music.
]I'm sorry, are you going to disagree with EVERYTHING that I say?

You are misinterpreting what "disagreement" really means.

One thing is anecdotal and personal experience, and another is the general behaviour of a broad slice of the population.

Both Landtuna and you have more of a focus on the pop hits of the 60's and 70's than is evidenced by looking at the listening of folks in the 45 to 65 year old age group.

First, many people in that age group either never liked Top 40... they were listeners to country, r&b, ranchera or some other kind of music. And then there are those who liked Top 40 but "graduated" to progressive or album rock. And those that moved the other way, to AC and even "Beautiful Music" as their preferences.

Some of the people who did listen to Top 40 in the 60's and 70's will enjoy listening to oldies or classic hits today, but will also listen to stations in other music formats as well as news and talk stations. So they only listen part of the time, and when they do, they want to hear the "best" songs of the era... if they wanted obscure relics, they would go to a museum.

There are a few people who want nothing more than their oldies fix from the radio; generally they want a presentation that sounds like Top 40 stations did around 1970, too. We see in such people general disdain from the incredibly good pop music of today and more recent decades, and little appreciation for other genres.

In those cases, it's likely that no radio station would ever be 100% satisfying. Fortunately, the Internet and portable devices offer really neat alternatives. So "youse guys" are not left out... I use the web and my iPhone's mp3 capability to hear music that would never be played, either on the radio in the US or on the radio anywhere.

I was talking about this with my daughter today. Not just music, but styles and fashions in clothes, cars, decoration and even food. When I mentioned that some people changed less and seemed "stuck" in an era, she mentioned the old Spanish saying of "you can't get pears from an elm tree."* We can't change your taste, and you can't change our opinions and experience on why radio is not programmed to you.

* "No se puede pedir peras al olmo." Figurative expression used to explain that it's futile to expect something that can not be expected given a person's education, background, character or conduct. Spain, traditional.

 

[landtuna]

Which is what 67-year olds of the time said about the artist lists from 1968, 1963 and 1958...

I remember the seniors in my family making remarks about certain performers and the dances we did back then but I don't remember anyone disparaging the talent. I also don't recall a single senior of those days admitting they even listened to then-top-40 and what little they knew about the music was as seen on Ed Sullivan or perhaps Your Hit Parade. By '60 they were all gone so have no idea what the 60's comments would have been.

One of the major differences between then and now has been that Rock/Pop has existed in some form (or multiple forms) for the past 40 years so today's 67-year olds have had plenty of time to listen and get accustomed to what "good" music sounds like. Very few artists today - and I mean VERY few - can hope to approach the raw talent, innovation and experimentation that existed back then. Today there are certain technical props that permit mediocre musicians to sound better than they are but it is pretty easy to determine their real, or lack of, talent.

As one measure let me suggest counting the number of tribute bands now performing. I don't see any tribute bands doing grunge, metal or any music of the past 20 years. All of it seems to be more than 20 years ago and some goes back into the late 50's. I really doubt we'll see that type of respect from bands 20 years from now.

 

[oldies76]

Perhaps you, Oldies76 and others don't forget them. Most people do.

Most people have forgotten the songs of their youth, because radio insists on not playing them. If just 50% (and that's the low end) of the charting classic hits in the top 20 from the 60's to the mid 80's were played today, instead of just the 10% or so, we would not be having this discussion, which has dragged on for years.

Just play the Music!

 

[oldies76]

And I almost never hear any of these on whatever passes for "classic hits" radio these days, so I feel vindicated. You've got to go to classic country radio to hear those anymore. And that is where they belong.

Just look at the 16 songs that hit #1 in '81. How many of them are played today? Maybe 4 or 5, if you're lucky to catch one of them on the radio. The only one we hear to death of the 16, is "Jessie's Girl". The country crossovers I can understand, but the regular pop singles? Come on. This is the prime demo period for classic hits radio.

 

[oldies76]

If anything, I like MORE of the music from 1976 than I actually did IN 1976. My first 45 was "Let Your Love Flow" by the Bellamy Brothers, and it still gets played (on the radio) now. Also picked up Steve Miller Band 45s that year, as well as the Beach Boys and even the Beatles. Good times, for sure.

Yes they were. 1976 is the first year I can remember hearing those great songs on our car AM radio in Westport, CT as a kid. Heck, I even remember hearing "Disco Duck", "Afternoon Delight", "More More More" and others on the radio back then that summer! Don't remember the radio station, though.

I think my first 45 was purchased in early 1977....."Hotel California"

 

[davideduardo]

Most people have forgotten the songs of their youth, because radio insists on not playing them. I

Radio does not "insist" on anything. Radio asks the listeners what songs they want to hear today, and plays them.

 

[landtuna]

There are a few people who want nothing more than their oldies fix from the radio; generally they want a presentation that sounds like Top 40 stations did around 1970, too. We see in such people general disdain from the incredibly good pop music of today and more recent decades, and little appreciation for other genres.

You may have made a conclusion based upon the limitation of our conversation. I thought the comments were related specifically to Rock/Pop and not to other music genres. That limitation in my posts does not mean that I do not appreciate or listen to other genres. For example, I know I have mentioned my appreciation for Big Band/Swing. This was an adult-onset phenomenon. There are also a number of so-called "lounge singers" from the 40's and 50's I have in my library - Patti Page was one. I have also been known to collect certain Country artists although I do not listen to Country radio (Charley Pride, Glen Campbell, Emmylou Harris and Don Williams are some of my Country favs).

I have a lot of disdain for the pop music of today, not only because it isn't very good (for all the reasons I have given in other posts) but also because the artists are far more popular as video icons and behaving-badly spoiled brats. The very few with genuine talent such as Whitney Houston created music that hurt my ears, like bad opera. I don't appreciate screamers and although she did have a lovely voice a lot of her songs were just loud. Compare her singing to Dolly Pardon for example - Dolly knows how to sing with feeling and without blasting with volume alone.

A comparison of music now and then is essentially the same as for movies now and then. Moviegoers today can appreciate all the technical advantages of Dolby stereo, wide-screen, Technicolor and CGI but they largely miss real professional actors and engaging dialog. There are a few today that are equal in talent to those making first run movies of years past but not many. And the reason is the same as in music.....

The target demo for both are generally too young to appreciate the history or have valid comparisons so they think today's drivel is good.

 

[michael hagerty]

Mister hagerty says that radio stations and advertisers aren't interested in teens the way they were in the 1960s-70s. He's probably right. In the '60s-70s we had Frankie Avalon, Bobby Rydell, Fabian, Paul Peterson, Shelly Fabares, Johnny Crawford, Leif Garrett, Shaun Cassidy, the Osmonds and the Monkees. In the 2000s we have Miley Cyrus, Justin Bieber, Demi Lovato, Cher Lloyd, Selena Gomez, Miranda Cosgrove, Willow Smith, Rachel Crow, One Direction and the Jonas Brothers.
Oh wait.....

I promise you they're only getting played if they test well with 18-34 females.

Probably explains why we got stuck with "Elvira" on what was supposedly "pop" radio back in the early '80s. :

Pop radio was always about playing the hits, wherever they came from. And "Elvira" by The Oak Ridge Boys (#1 Country, #5 Hot 100, #8 Adult Contemporary) was part of the boom in country crossovers spurred on by the film "Urban Cowboy", which was supposed to do for country what "Saturday Night Fever" did for disco.
The week "Elvira" peaked at #5 (July 25, 1981), Kenny Rogers' "I Don't Need You" was #6, Juice Newton's "Queen Of Hearts" was #14, Ronnie Milsap's "No Gettin' Over Me" was #16 and Roseanne Cash's "Seven Year Ache" was #22. Eddie Rabbitt's "Step By Step" was the second-highest debuting record on the Hot 100 at #66.

'Splains why 1981 was probably my least favorite year for music, at least during my teen years. And I almost never hear any of these on whatever passes for "classic hits" radio these days, so I feel vindicated. You've got to go to classic country radio to hear those anymore. And that is where they belong.

You don't hear them because they don't test well today. But millions of people bought them at the time. Their tastes have changed. It's exactly what we've been talking about here.

 

[michael hagerty]

Radio may "forget" 45s, but we don't. Those usually go on to become "guilty pleasures" or something like that. ;D Back in the day, radio used to introduce us to those 45s that they would soon go on to "forget."

Perhaps you, Oldies76 and others don't forget them. Most people do.

If late-night comics (among other people) would not mock the tastes of others, people would not develop "convenient amnesia" and forget them. It's a form of "peer pressure" that creates guilty pleasures and causes people to deny their own tastes in music.
It's really easy to mock something once it's no longer in style. :

I'm sorry. Are you suggesting that, if not for peer pressure, everyone would like everything they hear always and forever?

I'm sorry, are you going to disagree with EVERYTHING that I say?

I honestly don't know. I don't even know if I disagree with what you wrote above because you didn't answer my question.

 

[michael hagerty]

Which is what 67-year olds of the time said about the artist lists from 1968, 1963 and 1958...

I remember the seniors in my family making remarks about certain performers and the dances we did back then but I don't remember anyone disparaging the talent. I also don't recall a single senior of those days admitting they even listened to then-top-40 and what little they knew about the music was as seen on Ed Sullivan or perhaps Your Hit Parade. By '60 they were all gone so have no idea what the 60's comments would have been.

One of the major differences between then and now has been that Rock/Pop has existed in some form (or multiple forms) for the past 40 years so today's 67-year olds have had plenty of time to listen and get accustomed to what "good" music sounds like. Very few artists today - and I mean VERY few - can hope to approach the raw talent, innovation and experimentation that existed back then. Today there are certain technical props that permit mediocre musicians to sound better than they are but it is pretty easy to determine their real, or lack of, talent.

As one measure let me suggest counting the number of tribute bands now performing. I don't see any tribute bands doing grunge, metal or any music of the past 20 years. All of it seems to be more than 20 years ago and some goes back into the late 50's. I really doubt we'll see that type of respect from bands 20 years from now.

First, how many of this week's Top 10 songs have you heard more than once? How many have you heard even once? Since you've said before that you're not only not a CHR listener but really only will listen to two (three now, with the KOY stream) stations despite there being 9 in the Phoenix area that play some 60s-80s hits, I'm wondering what the condemnation of talent in this week's top 10 is based on.

Second, nostalgia runs in 20-year cycles minimum. And tribute bands are a nostalgia play. Most of the acts from the early 90s are still active. People can still see the real thing. Give it 10 or 20 more years.

 

[michael hagerty]

Perhaps you, Oldies76 and others don't forget them. Most people do.

Most people have forgotten the songs of their youth, because radio insists on not playing them. If just 50% (and that's the low end) of the charting classic hits in the top 20 from the 60's to the mid 80's were played today, instead of just the 10% or so, we would not be having this discussion, which has dragged on for years.

Just play the Music!

I'll say it again: People don't forget songs they care about.

Radio isn't insisting on anything, Oldies, but you're insisting that radio should play songs these people don't care about, and should never have stopped playing them...as though that would do anything other than increase the apathy and/or dislike felt about the records and the medium that played them.