I am sure this has been discussed, and I know that comparisons to Los Angeles radio are not always valid here in New York, but do any of you think that WCBS would be more successful if it sounded more like L.A.'s K-Earth? K-Earth, in my opinion, is one of the best stations in the country, and while its key demographic is older than what advertisers are looking for, its sound and near-perfect delivery - including the classic jingles - would be a success in New York City. What do you all think?
-
Get involved.
We want your input!
Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.
After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.
After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/
Thanks in advance and have fun!
RadioDiscussions Administrators
Why Can't CBS-FM Be Like K-Earth 101?
- Thread starter ScottBurns
- Start date
Both stations have their positives and negatives:
KRTH:
+ great sound, great jingles, great energy
+ consistent "feel" to the music - few jarring songs that sound out of place
+ VERY well selected 70s additions, with a handful of 80s. It all feels right.
+ they are now mixing in (and out) certain selections to keep it (sort of) fresh
+ very solid heritage - everyone from small children to elderly people know that jingle
+ superb signal that can be heard everywhere
- still too much repetition happening
- not enough lesser heard songs to attract a loyal audience of oldies/music fans
- DJs read off liner cards and often sound "canned"
- In December, they play bad Xmas music: Air Supply, Barry Manilow, with heavy repetition
WCBS
+ Station is more beloved than KRTH. The mayor would never comment if KRTH went off the air.
+ Way more variety in song selection. They clearly have more titles in the library.
+ More natural sound. DJs sound "alive" and genuine, if a little less tight sometimes.
+ Would be much easier to listen to all day than KRTH - less repetitive
+ Much more variety with the Christmas music, and more in tune with an oldies outlet (KRTH tries to be Adult Contemporary for a month. Yes, I see the rationale, but they should pick their niche and stick with it for brand sake.)
+ The themed days are a nice addition. KRTH has nothing like that. (KRTH's "themed" weekends are a farce - just the same music as usual.) KRTH did do a "no repeat" weekend once where they actually played unusual stuff, but this was the only time I've heard something like that.
- Despite this, the WCBS theme moments occur only once an hour. Not really enough.
- Some of the 80s songs do not fit well. "Like A Virgin," Georgia Satellites, etc. KRTH keeps the sound conistent by adding things like "I Can't Go For That" or "Start Me Up," avoiding the more dated or risque material from the 80s.
- Too much "classic rock" 70s material. Keep it skewed Top 40.
- Though better than KRTH, still not enough depth to the playlist. Nobody wants to be bored.
- Like KRTH, a smattering of pre-64 music would please listeners, regardless of age.
- WCBS sounds a bit more sloppy than KRTH: gaps, miscues, DJ mistakes, etc. Nothing terrible, but KRTH sounds more professional.
- Both stations have terrible websites that don't function properly
- WCBS doesn't sound "New York" enough to me.
- Both stations could use more specialty programming, such as a doo-wop show, a (real) all-request show, an Elvis show on when people are awake, some kind of historical program... Throw the music fans a bone!
My .02
KRTH:
+ great sound, great jingles, great energy
+ consistent "feel" to the music - few jarring songs that sound out of place
+ VERY well selected 70s additions, with a handful of 80s. It all feels right.
+ they are now mixing in (and out) certain selections to keep it (sort of) fresh
+ very solid heritage - everyone from small children to elderly people know that jingle
+ superb signal that can be heard everywhere
- still too much repetition happening
- not enough lesser heard songs to attract a loyal audience of oldies/music fans
- DJs read off liner cards and often sound "canned"
- In December, they play bad Xmas music: Air Supply, Barry Manilow, with heavy repetition
WCBS
+ Station is more beloved than KRTH. The mayor would never comment if KRTH went off the air.
+ Way more variety in song selection. They clearly have more titles in the library.
+ More natural sound. DJs sound "alive" and genuine, if a little less tight sometimes.
+ Would be much easier to listen to all day than KRTH - less repetitive
+ Much more variety with the Christmas music, and more in tune with an oldies outlet (KRTH tries to be Adult Contemporary for a month. Yes, I see the rationale, but they should pick their niche and stick with it for brand sake.)
+ The themed days are a nice addition. KRTH has nothing like that. (KRTH's "themed" weekends are a farce - just the same music as usual.) KRTH did do a "no repeat" weekend once where they actually played unusual stuff, but this was the only time I've heard something like that.
- Despite this, the WCBS theme moments occur only once an hour. Not really enough.
- Some of the 80s songs do not fit well. "Like A Virgin," Georgia Satellites, etc. KRTH keeps the sound conistent by adding things like "I Can't Go For That" or "Start Me Up," avoiding the more dated or risque material from the 80s.
- Too much "classic rock" 70s material. Keep it skewed Top 40.
- Though better than KRTH, still not enough depth to the playlist. Nobody wants to be bored.
- Like KRTH, a smattering of pre-64 music would please listeners, regardless of age.
- WCBS sounds a bit more sloppy than KRTH: gaps, miscues, DJ mistakes, etc. Nothing terrible, but KRTH sounds more professional.
- Both stations have terrible websites that don't function properly
- WCBS doesn't sound "New York" enough to me.
- Both stations could use more specialty programming, such as a doo-wop show, a (real) all-request show, an Elvis show on when people are awake, some kind of historical program... Throw the music fans a bone!
My .02
ScottBurns said:
KRTH's jingles are retakes of the classic KHJ jingles, and the heritage is Drake and Jacobs and KHJ, not WABC. The ethnic makeup of LA is so, so, so different (nearly 5 million of Mexican heritage, vastly fewer Blacks) making the musical heritage different, too. In LA, a significant percentage of the population did not listen to LA Top 40 but to some hometown station elsewhere... while LA has quite a bit more population stability.
Add in the weather, the mentality, the pace of life, etc., and there is no way for an LA style to work in NY and no use trying.
Anyway, KRTH is fighting to lower the age, and it will be a while to see if they are successful. CBS-FM is much more solid demographically already.
Great comparison Scooty of KRTH and CBS-FM. This weekend KRTH sounds fantastic as they count down the top 1,001 greatest hits of all time. Lots of obscurities. This afternoon Bruce Chandler played Cindy's Birthday by Johnny Crawford. This song was not in the countdown but was played because Crawford was visiting the station after having lunch with PD Jhani Kaye. I agree with you about most of the KRTH weekends being a farce. The no repeat weekend in Nov. 2006 was very good. I think they played about 850 titles that weekend so the current countdown offers even more variety. The Summer songs weekend they did in June was pretty good; lots of Beach Boys and Jan and Dean. That weekend they played the very seldom heard "I Live for the Sun" by the Sunrays.
One thing you did not mention is that KRTH is live on the overnight shift. Dave Randall does a wonderful job. I'd much rather listen to him than Jeff Mazzei's voicetrack on CBS-FM.
I wish KRTH would do a Sunday night countdown show like CBS-FM. If they decide to, they should bring back "Mr. Rock and Roll" Brian Beirne. Maybe not for a regular shift, just to host the countdown due to his vast knowledge of the music and artists.
One thing you did not mention is that KRTH is live on the overnight shift. Dave Randall does a wonderful job. I'd much rather listen to him than Jeff Mazzei's voicetrack on CBS-FM.
I wish KRTH would do a Sunday night countdown show like CBS-FM. If they decide to, they should bring back "Mr. Rock and Roll" Brian Beirne. Maybe not for a regular shift, just to host the countdown due to his vast knowledge of the music and artists.
Isn't it interesting that the WCBS-FM website has video interviews with prebeatles artists like Chubby Checker but, will never ever play their music anymore.
Some very interesting replies indeed. Here are some additional thoughts:
1. I think sound is very important to this analysis. K-Earth has added some 80s songs, but it still "sounds" like an Oldies station. WCBS-FM just sounds confused. While it can be best described as Classic Hits, CBS-FM does not play enough Oldies songs to be considered an Oldies station. It does not play enough Classic Rock to be a Classic Rocker. The problem is one that is inherent in any Classic Hits station. But with a Heritage moniker and station, people expect more of an "identity."
2. While KRTH's jocks might over-rely on liner cards, they always sound spirited. They remind the listener of the days of "fun" radio. While WCBS-FM certainly has good jocks, a more valid comparison is the new KFRC in San Francisco. Both seem to be rather un-memorable" stations.
3. One of you mentioned just how loved WCBS-FM is. Therein lies the tragedy in all of this. The station needs an identity to serve an audience that has the highest expectations of it.
4. While variety is good, K-Earth does a better job of creating a focus and supplementing that focus. Several of you alluded to this. CBS-FM would be better off doing this....
1. I think sound is very important to this analysis. K-Earth has added some 80s songs, but it still "sounds" like an Oldies station. WCBS-FM just sounds confused. While it can be best described as Classic Hits, CBS-FM does not play enough Oldies songs to be considered an Oldies station. It does not play enough Classic Rock to be a Classic Rocker. The problem is one that is inherent in any Classic Hits station. But with a Heritage moniker and station, people expect more of an "identity."
2. While KRTH's jocks might over-rely on liner cards, they always sound spirited. They remind the listener of the days of "fun" radio. While WCBS-FM certainly has good jocks, a more valid comparison is the new KFRC in San Francisco. Both seem to be rather un-memorable" stations.
3. One of you mentioned just how loved WCBS-FM is. Therein lies the tragedy in all of this. The station needs an identity to serve an audience that has the highest expectations of it.
4. While variety is good, K-Earth does a better job of creating a focus and supplementing that focus. Several of you alluded to this. CBS-FM would be better off doing this....
Very true, ScottBurns. The KRTH DJs have a ton of energy and really "sell" what they're playing. Your overall assessment is right on: KRTH has FOCUS. It's exactly what everyone in New York THINKS WCBS is.
As for a "summertime" hits weekend on KRTH, I wish I'd heard that. I was in Europe all summer. The only time I've ever heard "I Live for the Sun" is on my Rhino Surf Collection CD!
If you caught the WCBS Christmas Countdown, that was well done in terms of song selection. Presentation was automated and had some errors (Little Drummer Boy played twice in a row.) But a good countdown and no freakin' Mannheim Steamroller!
Dave Randall overnights.....I'm never up that late, but I'll check him out. I think all the KRTH jocks are good, though Shotgun sometimes lapses into that "ya baby" stuff a bit much. (That is appropraite to the format, though....)
Anyhow......if KRTH's doing a good 1001 countdown right now, I'll have to ditch KLOS A to Z, or at least switch back and forth. Tough call....when else will I hear In-A-Gadda-da-Vida played in full on the air but the KLOS marathon?
As for a "summertime" hits weekend on KRTH, I wish I'd heard that. I was in Europe all summer. The only time I've ever heard "I Live for the Sun" is on my Rhino Surf Collection CD!
If you caught the WCBS Christmas Countdown, that was well done in terms of song selection. Presentation was automated and had some errors (Little Drummer Boy played twice in a row.) But a good countdown and no freakin' Mannheim Steamroller!
Dave Randall overnights.....I'm never up that late, but I'll check him out. I think all the KRTH jocks are good, though Shotgun sometimes lapses into that "ya baby" stuff a bit much. (That is appropraite to the format, though....)
Anyhow......if KRTH's doing a good 1001 countdown right now, I'll have to ditch KLOS A to Z, or at least switch back and forth. Tough call....when else will I hear In-A-Gadda-da-Vida played in full on the air but the KLOS marathon?
ScottBurns said:
WCBS-FM is 9th 25-54 in NY. KRTH is 11th in 25-54. Both are 7th in cume in their markets.
One might conclude that each is doing a good job in its respective market, and that messing with either would be unreasonable.
Good point.
However WCBS is riding a wave of publicity / excitement, and that could fade if it's not what people expected.....or like. So the original poster's idea: make WCBS more like KRTH, is not so bad.
By the way, the KRTH Top 1001 is a pretty big change. Checking yes.com, they are playing old Elvis, Chuck Berry, the theme from the Monkees, lesser heard Crystals songs.... Definitely stuff they haven't played in years. Very very cool.
However WCBS is riding a wave of publicity / excitement, and that could fade if it's not what people expected.....or like. So the original poster's idea: make WCBS more like KRTH, is not so bad.
By the way, the KRTH Top 1001 is a pretty big change. Checking yes.com, they are playing old Elvis, Chuck Berry, the theme from the Monkees, lesser heard Crystals songs.... Definitely stuff they haven't played in years. Very very cool.
scooty430 said:
More than likely they realize holiday listening is horrible, as shown by the PPM, and they figure that they can attract attention with special programming without losing any regular listeners. Expect to hear more of this as PPM approaches.
How ironic. It wasn't too long ago (and for many years) that people were asking "Why Can't K-Earth 101 Be Like CBS-FM?". Seems like it was just yesterday that K-Earth was playing the same 40 songs all day, every day.
Without KRTH's or WCBS-FM's ability to play 99% of all 1955-1967 music, does it really matter?
ANY station that would play 99% of that range would indeed be irelevant to any market.RADIO TRUTH said:
Would anyone really want to hear "No Chemise Please" or "She's So Tough" anymore?
RADIO TRUTH said:
Either could play all the '55 to '67 music they wanted to... it's just that they would not have much income.
A belated Happy Birthday to you, David !!
SuperRadioFan said:A belated Happy Birthday to you, David !!
Thanks!
Oh yes David, happy birthday. I learned a lot from your posts on bilingualism and language aquisition skills on the Houston board.
Anyway, KRTH sounded fantastic on their 1,001 greatest hits countdown. No they're back to their repetition selves again. I heard "You Can't Hurry Love" 4x this weekend. Twice by the Supremes and twice by Phil Collins. Yuck!
CBS-fm is more interesting with the Sunday countdown shows and wider playlist. They just need to get rid of the voicetracked overnights!
Anyway, KRTH sounded fantastic on their 1,001 greatest hits countdown. No they're back to their repetition selves again. I heard "You Can't Hurry Love" 4x this weekend. Twice by the Supremes and twice by Phil Collins. Yuck!
CBS-fm is more interesting with the Sunday countdown shows and wider playlist. They just need to get rid of the voicetracked overnights!
And yet, CBS-FM did not play much pre-67 music, before the flip to Jack or now in its reincarnation. Even in 2005 and prior, CBS-FM was making many efforts to update its music, even throwing in sappy 80's ballads from the likes of Whitney Houston. I remember the oldies fanatics whining about it then, just as they are whining about the current CBS-FM now. When did that whining stop? When 101.1 was home to Jack FM....then, they all forgot about how they whined about how awful CBS-FM had become, and instead whined about why it was taken off the air (only to begin whining about how bad it is and how it should play more 50's, more 60's, more doo-wop, blah blah blah, once it returned again!)
Its really simple. People clamor for what they WANT. I think the intense feelings for WCBS FM were grossly underestimated by Infinity/CBS management. The feelings never faded, long after the flip. The LISTENERS are simply asking for what they want, which will help reshape the new CBS FM too. What the audience feels for this station is truely amazing.
- Status