Why do we bother with EAS if we don't use it?

[radiorob2.0]

Back in the early 2000's, I was contract engineer for a non-comm located literally across the street from a commercial signal deemed by area Emergency Management Agency as a source for our EAS receiver. I also worked for the commercial station part time as air talent. After I untangled the non-comm's EAS set up it did receive the weekly test from NOAA. However, it didn't receive test from the commercial station across the street. The device worked but it was unable to receive the message. The reason was the commercial station deemed the one to monitor by the local EMA used the old EBS tone for EAS. Bonus: It was on a automation system hot button and the source was a cart, you could hear the splice on the air. When I pointed out to management their actions weren't compliant, it was suggested in so many words I should shut my whore mouth and it wasn't my concern. So I did. If an inspector questioned the non-comm's discrepancy, I was going to send him across the street and let him witness the non-compliance.

Extra bonus: When the commercial station operated on the back up facility located at the studio, the EAS receivers were overloaded and did nothing but occupy rack space.

 

[Bengalsfan]

Since I don't work with any EAS-responsible agency and am not presently on any EAS committee, it is not my job to google for you.

And it's not my job to look up the facts you are trying to defend, either. If you can't dig up facts to defend your statements, that in your words "most" broadcasters are keenly aware of, then what does that make you?

 

[OttoM]

Since I don't work with any EAS-responsible agency and am not presently on any EAS committee, it is not my job to google for you.

And it's not my job to look up the facts you are trying to defend, either. If you can't dig up facts to defend your statements, that in your words "most" broadcasters are keenly aware of, then what does that make you?

Keep up this level of discussion and this thread's destined for TIO. Let's ratchet it back a notch or 6.

 

[bossbill]

EAS was a watered-down compromise. Does anyone remember some of the EAS features which didn't make it to the final Rulemaking?

When I was working for Harris Corporation, we were actively promoting and selling one brand of EAS. I presented to broadcaster groups in several states.

One of the most common dialogues had to do with whether EAS played a role in providing ongoing announcements in case of emergency. Our common answer was: EAS is used for the initial ALERT. Following that, individual stations then make a decision as to the extent of ongoing information coverage, hopefully in cooperation with local Emergency Management. That was over 12 years ago. People are still asking why EAS is not used in many situations. The answer is the same.

And yes, the primary use has been for local situations, although the mandate to broadcasters was based on its use for national alerts.

 

[davideduardo]

Since I don't work with any EAS-responsible agency and am not presently on any EAS committee, it is not my job to google for you.

And it's not my job to look up the facts you are trying to defend, either. If you can't dig up facts to defend your statements, that in your words "most" broadcasters are keenly aware of, then what does that make you?

The pretty accepted process when one seeks verification of something in a post on any forum on the web is to do a search to find out more. Only if the search fails to sustain the othe posters facts or position is it time to ask them what orifice they pulled the data from. But you have wasted more time demanding the facts than a quick search would have take, making me wonder why you are so hostile on the subject.

 

[Bengalsfan]

The pretty accepted process when one seeks verification of something in a post on any forum on the web is to do a search to find out more. Only if the search fails to sustain the othe posters facts or position is it time to ask them what orifice they pulled the data from. But you have wasted more time demanding the facts than a quick search would have take, making me wonder why you are so hostile on the subject.

Equally accepted process is when one posts assertions on a particular subject, they post facts to back it up. You failed to posts facts to back up your argument. So one would assume you pulled the facts out of that same orifice until someone else came to your rescue.

No hostility at all. I simply asked you to prove your assertions and you didn't. Instead you have wasted just about as much time blaming me for not doing your work.

With that said, I'm done with the subject since you'll continue to try and put the responsibility for proving your thesis on me. And you really haven't addressed the issue of why broadcasters are forced to support an outdated mode of information dissemination such as the EAS when there are other methods that are much more reliable than the EAS. I think the system is outdated and should be eliminated. Or at least, take the mandate off station owners and make it a totally voluntary system.

 

[techie2]

I suppose that it could be manged for cable systems which can direct programming into smaller zones but now that they are consolidating that might become problematic because the smaller local headends are being phased out for regional signal processing centers.

That happened here and was one of the reasons I was happy to get rid of cable. They were blotting out all channels on the system for severe thunderstorm warnings that were two counties away.

 

[w9wi]

I suppose that it could be manged for cable systems which can direct programming into smaller zones but now that they are consolidating that might become problematic because the smaller local headends are being phased out for regional signal processing centers.

That happened here and was one of the reasons I was happy to get rid of cable. They were blotting out all channels on the system for severe thunderstorm warnings that were two counties away.

Cable operators are required to run those crawls. I suppose "growing" the system so one headend services 3+ counties is not required, but if you were watching OTA channels they'd have to run them for anywhere in their coverage area.

Y'know, while we're talking about technical changes to EAS, we should consider moving the crawl facility into the TV *receiver*. Your set would decode the data bursts (which could be transmitted as data, not audio...) and, if you'd programmed your FIPS code into your TV, your set would decide whether you were affected by the alert or not. You'd only see the crawl if it applied to your county.

 

[davideduardo]

Y'know, while we're talking about technical changes to EAS, we should consider moving the crawl facility into the TV *receiver*. Your set would decode the data bursts (which could be transmitted as data, not audio...) and, if you'd programmed your FIPS code into your TV, your set would decide whether you were affected by the alert or not. You'd only see the crawl if it applied to your county.

I have a fear of any emergency system that requires end-user intervention. People will move, will have lost the manual to the TV or monitor, and will not set the correct location.

 

[davideduardo]

With that said, I'm done with the subject since you'll continue to try and put the responsibility for proving your thesis on me. And you really haven't addressed the issue of why broadcasters are forced to support an outdated mode of information dissemination such as the EAS when there are other methods that are much more reliable than the EAS. I think the system is outdated and should be eliminated. Or at least, take the mandate off station owners and make it a totally voluntary system.

Radio and TV reach a higher percentage of Americans than any other, and when you combine radio and TV (including cable) the listeners and viewers when combined are greater than any possible percentage of text / messaging enabled cellular phones.

An ideal system includes broadcast, cellular, WiMax (Clearwire et. al.), instant messaging systems and all push enabled technologies to come in the future.

No single system reaches everyone all the time. An amalgamation of systems reaches many more, and has a better chance of reaching someone in each block or neighborhood or community at even the latest times of night.

 

[davideduardo]

The pretty accepted process when one seeks verification of something in a post on any forum on the web is to do a search to find out more. Only if the search fails to sustain the othe posters facts or position is it time to ask them what orifice they pulled the data from. But you have wasted more time demanding the facts than a quick search would have take, making me wonder why you are so hostile on the subject.

Equally accepted process is when one posts assertions on a particular subject, they post facts to back it up. You failed to posts facts to back up your argument. So one would assume you pulled the facts out of that same orifice until someone else came to your rescue.

No hostility at all. I simply asked you to prove your assertions and you didn't. Instead you have wasted just about as much time blaming me for not doing your work.

With that said, I'm done with the subject since you'll continue to try and put the responsibility for proving your thesis on me. And you really haven't addressed the issue of why broadcasters are forced to support an outdated mode of information dissemination such as the EAS when there are other methods that are much more reliable than the EAS. I think the system is outdated and should be eliminated. Or at least, take the mandate off station owners and make it a totally voluntary system.

 

[OKCRadioGuy]

Above all, I thoughly reject the idea that we need to spend money on new equipment. If they want a new standard, buy the junk and install it. We already have something that works at the station level. Failure with a capital F goes to the goverment in general on the whole EAS thing. The failures, for the most part, are on their end. When they get that perfected with the current equipment, I'll be happy to add another 4,000 box to my budget. LOL! It's safe to say I'd collect a LOT of interest during the wait!

 

[RadeoEngineer]

Above all, I thoughly reject the idea that we need to spend money on new equipment. If they want a new standard, buy the junk and install it. We already have something that works at the station level. Failure with a capital F goes to the goverment in general on the whole EAS thing. The failures, for the most part, are on their end. When they get that perfected with the current equipment, I'll be happy to add another 4,000 box to my budget. LOL! It's safe to say I'd collect a LOT of interest during the wait!

Be careful what you ask for.....

 

[Tom Wells]

Y'know, while we're talking about technical changes to EAS, we should consider moving the crawl facility into the TV *receiver*. Your set would decode the data bursts (which could be transmitted as data, not audio...) and, if you'd programmed your FIPS code into your TV, your set would decide whether you were affected by the alert or not. You'd only see the crawl if it applied to your county.

I have a fear of any emergency system that requires end-user intervention. People will move, will have lost the manual to the TV or monitor, and will not set the correct location.

Your Internet Service provider would provide that data to the TV. ZIP code +4 system provides enough area-specific info.
People don't have to program clocks on many newer items, do they?

I thought there was also already in implementation a "turn-the-tv-on-in-the-middle-of-the-night, LOUD" mode for cable connected TV.

I seem to remember Clinton signing something that would provide for that scenario, anyway.
Did that or did that not happen? Did I dream that?

 

[bilco]

I've kept my nose out of this one so far to see what people would come up with. Fact, 2007 NAB convention in Las Vegas. At the start of the EAS meeting, Adrienne Abbot, the state EAS chair announced that an Amber alert had been sounded in the las Vegas Area. Within 1 hour, she announcedd that the alert was over since a listener to one of my stations, KXPT 97.1, driving on the interstate saw the car being described in front of him and called the cops on the celular. Successful Amber alert. Fact. 2006, An amber alert in the Las Vegas area. Father killed the mother grabbed the kid and took off. We ran the alerts on all the stations repeated a lot. Two days later the father turned himself in, stating that he had been afraid to go out because of all those announcements on the radio and TV. These are FACTS. Just ask the hundreds of folks in tornado alley's around the country what they think of those warnings. The EAS system is not perfect by any means but I'm proud to have been on the national committee that created it representing AZ in the 6th FEMA area and am proud to be the co-chair of the Southern NV/Inyo County CA operational area here in LV. The changes being proposed to include the Common alerting Protocol will resolve many of the complaints. Those who bitch about 911 Don't see the purpose of EAS which is alerting to potential life trhreatening situation NOT NEWS REPORTING.
Bill Croghan,
Chief engineer Lotus Las Vegas

 

[techie2]

Cable operators are required to run those crawls. I suppose "growing" the system so one headend services 3+ counties is not required, but if you were watching OTA channels they'd have to run them for anywhere in their coverage area.

The annoyance was that it wasn't just a crawl. It was a static slide that went up on all channels as well as LOUD DISTORTED AUDIO to go with it.

 

[w9wi]

Y'know, while we're talking about technical changes to EAS, we should consider moving the crawl facility into the TV *receiver*. Your set would decode the data bursts (which could be transmitted as data, not audio...) and, if you'd programmed your FIPS code into your TV, your set would decide whether you were affected by the alert or not. You'd only see the crawl if it applied to your county.

I have a fear of any emergency system that requires end-user intervention. People will move, will have lost the manual to the TV or monitor, and will not set the correct location.

Absolutely. For that reason...

One could write the firmware to default to displaying everything. (just as it does now!) If you wanted to see only your local alerts, you'd have to learn how to program in just your location.

 

[gr8oldies]

I suppose there could be software to geo-tag your set.

 

[nd2023]

The EAS was used to evacuate the entire state of Connecticut for exactly one hour in 2005 or so, to force a political ad on to several stations in Sacramento, California in 2007, to force WGN's morning show on every station in Illinois. At my station, the EAS box told us that a civil authority has issued a civil emergency message for one hour (like I'd know what to do in a civil emergency anyway), it prints when it rains or snows up to 100 miles away, and it tells me that there's a special marine warning for Area 031063 or something (because I'm supposed to alert all my listeners in Area 031063 that there's a special marine warning for them). It's also interrupted my show every 15 minutes for 2 hours, the box had to be unplugged to get it to stop.
If there is a severe thunderstorm or tornado for my county, the robot voice takes over the airchain with its barely intelligible audio, usually after I announce the warning to the listeners myself since I track the weather if there are storms forecast. And believe it or not, I even saw a blizzard warning print out in the middle of July 2007.

 

[nmoore6676]

The EAS was used to evacuate the entire state of Connecticut for exactly one hour in 2005 or so, to force a political ad on to several stations in Sacramento, California in 2007, to force WGN's morning show on every station in Illinois. At my station, the EAS box told us that a civil authority has issued a civil emergency message for one hour (like I'd know what to do in a civil emergency anyway), it prints when it rains or snows up to 100 miles away, and it tells me that there's a special marine warning for Area 031063 or something (because I'm supposed to alert all my listeners in Area 031063 that there's a special marine warning for them). It's also interrupted my show every 15 minutes for 2 hours, the box had to be unplugged to get it to stop.
If there is a severe thunderstorm or tornado for my county, the robot voice takes over the airchain with its barely intelligible audio, usually after I announce the warning to the listeners myself since I track the weather if there are storms forecast. And believe it or not, I even saw a blizzard warning print out in the middle of July 2007.

Many years ago when I was working in Ohio and the alerts were sent by teletype someone put the wrong tape on the lines and sent an actual alert rather than the test that was scheduled. Our stations did not go to actual emergency mode but several did. For the most part I have seen the system work in a real situation.

I think that unintelligible audio in a tornado situation comes from NOAA, it is the same audio they send out on the weather radio stations. Why it can not be better quality I can not tell. Maybe some stimulus money to purchase better equipment?

Someone back a couple of posts questioned about the system to force TVs on in an emergency. I recall it being discussed after a particularly bad tornado swarm killed a number of people, in Oklahoma and Texas, if my memory is correct. I think that also gave rise to a couple of movies about tornadoes and a TV movie about storm chasers as well. But I do not remember if those sets were ever mandated. You can get weather radios and others that can be activated if an alert is sent out. Of course that depends on power to the radio, either AC or fresh batteries so if that is not maintained it is just a paper weight.

In the end any system is only as good as what people have in their homes just like smoke alarms. I suppose they could mandate that everyone have an emergency radio but they could not ensure that everyone keeps it plugged in and the batteries charged or replaced as needed. You can now subscribe to text alerts on your cell phone but that probably would not be as reliable as broadcast alerts and sirens. If you are visiting in California and there is a tornado in Iowa where you live that alert on your phone is wasted but it would have been helpful to your family back home if you were with them.