I've always been told by successful business men that nothing beats a failure but a try! Try as they will this newest entry into the news and talk market is only going to dilute the market for all the stations in the format! Not actually grow the pie. But it should provide a lot of radio geeks something to talk about on these boards that's for sure!
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mcradiofree
Guest
One point that no one mentioned, is that all of these news pros that have been hired, might be headed to the windy city. The reason I say this is most companies (certainly CBS) has non compete clauses in their contracts. I can't imagine anyone just saying.."Ok, here is our best people, now go ahead and compete against us". So maybe the news format for NY is all just a ruse. We hired an oldies consultant in a market I worked in to lead everybody to believe we were going to flip to oldies. Imagine their suprise when we flipped to New Rock. I believe you are all being taken for a ride.
As mentioned above, non-compete clauses are now considered a restraint of trade, and are no longer valid in NY and a lot of other states, but I suspect that these newscasters may not have been working under full "personal service contracts" but rather were working under the standard AFTRA contract for WINS.
No way in Hell, would AFTRA ever agree to a non-compete cause in one of its standard contracts.
Even if the newcasters negotiated a higher than AFTRA minimum salary for themselves, all the other provisions in the standard AFTRA-WINS contract would still apply.
Without a doubt, Randy and Sabo know exactly how many women in their target audience listen to the radio at every time of the day or night and what stations they listen to.
It's all in the standard research and market data that Sabo, no doubt, has committed to memory, and knows inside and out. And he also knows the topics these women are interested in hearing more about. He knows a lot about the women, including their income levels and probably brand preferences for everything from cars to banks, in case a potential advertiser has to be shown.
The big money Chicago-based MBA's who are putting up the funds for this adventure certainly asked all the questions you can think of, and a whole lot of important questions most of us would never even think of, before they put up a dime. There are real reasons for everything they are going to do.
Yes, the target women are addicted to cell phones, and they may wind up listening to their new favorite "news/talk" station on those cell phones too.
As far as daytime TV as a competitor, most of the women in the target demo probably work where they can't watch TV, but they might be able to listen to the radio. Walt and Randy know all about that too.
RadioStarOne said:
I thoroughly disagree. The late Carl Hirsch probably got the same talking-to when he came up with WHTZ. ("For God sakes, Carl, the market already has both WNBC and WKTU, plus WABC gave up the previous year! No way will a Top-40 station, built from scratch, will take off in this town!")
Again, WABC and WOR have so little local programming as it is, and only hold a minimum of relevance by virtue of their call letters and past heritage. If an all-local talker popped up - on a major FM signal even - that station will solidly beat the pants off of both WABC and WOR. It could even force Buckley to throw in the towel and sell off ol' 710, plus the penny-pinching Dickey family will have massive heartburn seeing WABC violently hemorrhage ratings and revenue.
It's not about "growing the pie" per se, it's about exploiting the weaknesses of the two major competitors**, and driving a big steamroller through them.
** WNYM, frankly, doesn't count because of its' sheer irrelevance. Plus Salem programs all of their conservatalkers to ONLY be ideologue-driven... ratings don't matter to them. If they wanted ratings, Bill Bennett, Micheal Medved and Hugh Hewitt would be nowhere to be seen.
Nathan Obral said:
I think you underestimate the power of an established host and his fan base. Most people who tune in to Rush are fans of Rush. Same with Hannity. They aren't just interested in general news or talk issues. They are specifically tuning in to hear those specific hosts, and cheer them on. That's what being a "ditto head" is all about.
The challenge for a new station is to deliver hosts who will attract that kind of passion. Just talking and opening the phones won't be enough to drive listeners away from someone they're passionate about. It's not the format, but the specific people that will make the difference.
TheBigA said:
Well, that's the other key. Passion is what will motivate people to listen. And with the other 24/7 live-local talkers out there, the real successful ones have that passion.
When Randy developed "The Big One" for WLW, he gradually assembled this unlikely and unconventional cast of characters:
- a 25-year-old announcer from Lynchburg, VA (Bill Wills) for morning drive
- a former rock DJ (Mike McConnell) for middays
- a conservative lawyer (Bill Cunningham) for late evenings, then later, early afternoons
- a satirist (Gary Burbank) for afternoon drive
- a sportscaster (Bob Trumpy) for "Sportstalk," who would eventually be succeeded by a former Bengals player (Cris Collinsworth) and, later, the station's promotions director (Andy Furman)
- and a country music personality (Dale "Truckin' Bozo" Sommers) for overnight.
Few of them had any consistent talk radio experience, but they all had passion (especially Cunningham, for which Hannity owes most of his "Great American" act to). Coupled with a VERY aggressive imaging and promotional front - that has lasted to this very day - the formula worked resoundingly for WLW.
I'm not expecting Randy to do the exact same thing, and pluck a handful of unknowns to fill the talk roster (IMO, he'd be nuts not to try to lure someone like Malzberg), but there definitely will be some highly unconventional selections.
Nathan Obral said:
The biggest problem with media in NYC is that the public thrives of familiarity, and distrusts unknowns. Take a look at the tenure of the various TV newscasters. Compare the ones who win with the ones who don't. Familiarity wins. So he will need familiar names, not unknowns.
The one thing I really believe he will do is a hybrid of talk and music. When I heard the stunting positioners that said "Not News, New," I was reminded how WNEW-FM used to break at the top of the hour to simulcast the news with it's AM brother. That wasn't rock & roll news, like The Source or ABC's FM Network. It was straight-ahead news that worked on FM as well as AM. I think it would work now. Straight ahead news surrounded by music and lifestyle talk. So not News/Talk, but rather Music/Talk with news.
Absolutely no disrespect to Steve Malzberg, but he is a political Conservative talk show host who mainly appeals to middle age and older males. He isn't even on the radar for this new station.
The new FM station is targeting younger females. It likely will NOT be political in any overt way. Expect lifestyle, entertainment news, health, fitness etc. to be the topics discussed on any talk portions or as news features.
As I mentioned earlier in this thread, WOR and WABC with a combined weekly cume of less than 2-million mostly older men, are NOT where this new station is looking for its new audience. And it wants younger people and mostly women.
Unfortunately, with the exception of the all newers, there is nothing on NYC AM that has anything even near the audience size or demographics that this new station is targeting.
TimeIsTight said:
I actually think the supposed female audience lean is a red herring. The actual stunt. A put-upon to fool the average listener. It all sounds too good to be true.
Do not be surprised if 101.9 takes a totally different direction with the spoken-word format.
Nathan Obral said:
Buckley might end up throwing in the towel and leasing or selling 710 to ESPN. What might Cumulus do with WABC if it starts hermorraging ratings?
E
Ejxit
Guest
I think you underestimate the power of an established host and his fan base. Most people who tune in to Rush are fans of Rush. Same with Hannity. They aren't just interested in general news or talk issues.
Local talk get's boring too fast. Does Sliwa have any ratings. What's local and MILF talk gonna do up against Savage, Rush, Hannity, Bachlor, Levin, Coast to Coast, etc.. This is another big scam. This Randy Michaels financially busted out Tribune and Clear Channel. Standby and watch Merlin get busted out next.
Local talk get's boring too fast. Does Sliwa have any ratings. What's local and MILF talk gonna do up against Savage, Rush, Hannity, Bachlor, Levin, Coast to Coast, etc.. This is another big scam. This Randy Michaels financially busted out Tribune and Clear Channel. Standby and watch Merlin get busted out next.
Curtis doesn't have ratings right now because he was basically exhiled to WNYM, a station that doesn't care about trying to be competitive. Remember that when he was paired with Ron Kuby on WABC mornings, they did pretty well, no?Ejxit said:
The real scam is the rumor that 101.9 is somehow going to be lifestyle, MILF talk.Ejxit said:
I think everyone is missing the point because WABC and WOR do talk so poorly, the general assumption is that all talk radio operates like that. Good grief. The format itself can be executed much better than those two stations.
Clear Channel was done in mostly after Randy left, especially by succeeding lackeys hired by the Mays clan. Tribune was ailing badly before he was brought in.Ejxit said:
From an advertising sales and revenue perspective, it should be obvious that it wouldn't make sense to waste the potential of a full power FM fighting WABC and WOR for a share of the prostate formula, "buy gold in a panic" type advertising found on Conservative talk. The below 2-million cume of the two AMs together is way below many of the FM stations and it is NOT the kind of audience that most advertisers are interested in reaching.
Women in their 30s and 40s control a lot of spending, and are very desirable advertising targets for all sorts of products and services that would NEVER place an ad on a Conservative Talk program.
Face it, even if Merlin drove WABC and WOR out of business and picked up every one of their combined audience members, it might wind up with a weekly cume of 1.5-million, which would put it near the bottom of the FM pile with the non-profit stations.
And then it would still only be able to attract the somewhat limited type of advertising mostly aimed at middle aged and older men found on Conservative talk radio. That would be a real waste of the potential of the expensive FM signal. That's why the news/talk aimed at younger women makes a lot of sense.
E
Ejxit
Guest
Ejxit said:
Buckely's only still in the market with a 55-dead demo, boring, stodgy, standalone AM talker in WOR because... the "WOR Radio Network" still makes money for them. Yes, fourth-and-fifth-tier talkers still want to carry Joy Brown, Dr. Hoffman and Joan Hamburg. Plus even with their dreadful lineup, it's the only real competition to WABC out there. But they are so easily beatable in the ratings, it's sickening... and no one even wants to try.
I don't see the equally boring and stodgy Buckley making any tweaks to WOR whatsoever. If anything, they are far more likely to just throw in the towel and dump the station, but keep the radio network.
Nathan Obral said:
If Buckley dumps WOR, how could the WOR Radio Network continue?
IMHO, WABC has no competition because WOR never mounted a fierce charge against them. WOR has been content to earn a living. Their objective has never been to beat WABC. WOR and WABC are both beatable and Randy Michaels & Co might be the ones to do it!
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