-
Get involved.
We want your input!
Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.
After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.
After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/
Thanks in advance and have fun!
RadioDiscussions Administrators
Will stations continue to voicetrack even when the economy picks up?
- Thread starter onair91
- Start date
When laying in bed late at night laughing at The Top Ten, only to realize the show was taped hours or days earlier, I feel uh well funny. 
Just goes to show there is good tracking/good talent out there.
Remember a recording will at some point go live.
Just goes to show there is good tracking/good talent out there.
Remember a recording will at some point go live.
Eli Polonsky said:
That is correct. Any non-profit org, licensee of a non-comm station may use as many volunteers as they wish, and no labor laws are broken. On the other hand, commercial stations may NOT use ANY volunteer workers excepting ones registered in an accredited educational institution's interns program. There's a reason for this..... so that greedy owners can't get free work out of people who are hoping to be employees, or get or free work out of people who ARE employees working for a certain wage, then with their donated time/work added, that would likely whittle down their overall wage to be less than 'minimum wage', and/or cause a higher than 40-hour work week.
There was a case about 10 years ago where a commercially-licensed AM station (on 1040 or 1060?) in Missouri that apparently tried to get around the labor laws, by not paying program hosts but rather by selling the time to program hosts at very inexpensive prices, and then split the revenue that each individual show brought in with the program hosts. The station actually had listeners... to the point where a competing station called in the Department of Labor who appeared on the 1040 station's doorstep. Never heard the outcome of that case, but it was certainly not a clear cut violation of labor laws at all. - That scenario is different than just selling block time at the going rate, which of course is clearly legal.
there has always been a rumor that a certain south of Boston station uses non paid staff on the overnight shift.
I do not know if it is true or not, and since I happen to have friends that work there, I won't mention the calls.
I do not know if it is true or not, and since I happen to have friends that work there, I won't mention the calls.
R
rapking
Guest
Good definition for legal radio stations.leegart said:
Not all stations are like that, just the big ones.
I am a big supporter of locally owned and legally licensed radio
WBOQ is a small station I like, WATD is my favorite success story, and WPLM, although they run Delilah at night, is live and local most of the time even on the over nights IIRC 5 nights a week.
I've been in and out of radio for close to 35 years now, and what people like me consider the golden days of radio are never going to return. I mean radio in Boston ruled. The music was great, there were many different formats, the DJ's were Gods. The Talk radio formats were not shouting matches between the caller and the hosts, or guests, and the hosts were not 3 subject hacks. We looked forward to the Sports Huddle on Sunday night if for no other reason than to hear the intro. I traveled all over America in the early to mid 70's, and I always wanted to get home to Boston where there was the best radio in the country.
On a positive note I was asked to interview for a local FM that shows up in the Boston book, on air, one overnight shift a week, that they could have easily VT'd. I'm not an on air guy, I can read copy, I can run a board, I can talk music until the cows come home. My strength has always been engineering. The fact that the small operations are still keeping people in the building overnight, while the big players who dug themselves into debt are VT'ing not only overnights, but mid days and evenings reminds me of the good old days.
Does anyone else remember when Nancy Quill was the overnight person at WCGY 93.7?
I am a big supporter of locally owned and legally licensed radio
WBOQ is a small station I like, WATD is my favorite success story, and WPLM, although they run Delilah at night, is live and local most of the time even on the over nights IIRC 5 nights a week.
I've been in and out of radio for close to 35 years now, and what people like me consider the golden days of radio are never going to return. I mean radio in Boston ruled. The music was great, there were many different formats, the DJ's were Gods. The Talk radio formats were not shouting matches between the caller and the hosts, or guests, and the hosts were not 3 subject hacks. We looked forward to the Sports Huddle on Sunday night if for no other reason than to hear the intro. I traveled all over America in the early to mid 70's, and I always wanted to get home to Boston where there was the best radio in the country.
On a positive note I was asked to interview for a local FM that shows up in the Boston book, on air, one overnight shift a week, that they could have easily VT'd. I'm not an on air guy, I can read copy, I can run a board, I can talk music until the cows come home. My strength has always been engineering. The fact that the small operations are still keeping people in the building overnight, while the big players who dug themselves into debt are VT'ing not only overnights, but mid days and evenings reminds me of the good old days.
Does anyone else remember when Nancy Quill was the overnight person at WCGY 93.7?
MRBIboredop said:
Only one catch: They pay crap.
When I was a live jock, I wasted a whole lot of time waiting for the song to end so I could do my thing. With VT, no more waiting. Once all music got loaded into the computer, there was no point in babysitting the automation. That's what board operators do. If the music's all recorded, then there's nothing gained by forcing the DJ to be live too. If you have real live radio, with live bands and a live audience, then I say bring on the live DJ. Otherwise, who cares?
I care.
I want someone live and local.
The idea behind VT'ing was to reduce costs by paying less for talent.
Someone in West Tumbleweed with a internet connection and a home studio could send the station a bunch of files for next to nothing. Why pay a jock benefits and a salary when Joe Bob will do it for 40 dollars a shift.
If you are already paying a jock in a major market a salary, you can get lots more productivity out of him/her by having them spend a few minutes a day doing tracks for a sister station in a lesser market.
Are you telling me you are making the same money per shift VT'ing you made for on air, and the station is paying a board op to sit there or someone to assemble the show and then load it into the computer a week at a time?
I want someone live and local.
The idea behind VT'ing was to reduce costs by paying less for talent.
Someone in West Tumbleweed with a internet connection and a home studio could send the station a bunch of files for next to nothing. Why pay a jock benefits and a salary when Joe Bob will do it for 40 dollars a shift.
If you are already paying a jock in a major market a salary, you can get lots more productivity out of him/her by having them spend a few minutes a day doing tracks for a sister station in a lesser market.
Are you telling me you are making the same money per shift VT'ing you made for on air, and the station is paying a board op to sit there or someone to assemble the show and then load it into the computer a week at a time?
MRBIboredop said:
You can still reduce costs and pay less for talent with someone live. You just pay them squat. That's what stations that still have live & local in overnights are doing. I believe that makes for bad radio.
You want radio the way it was done in the 60s? Good for you. You can pay extra for it. But know this: Even at radio operations where you DO pay extra, such as satellite and internet radio, the on air talent has been voice-tracked. Why should it be different at free radio?
It's not the 60s any more. Lots of things have changed. You want things to be the way they used to? Sorry.
MRBIboredop said:
That’s something you should take up with Joe Bob, not the guy running the radio station. The first station I worked at, I got paid minimum wage. They hired me, and I put a middle-aged guy with a wife and two kids out of work, because I was cheaper. I was live & local. So was he. So what? The ultimate insult is the guy with the wife and kids trained me to take his job. The thing you need to know is that there’s always someone who will work for less. And in this country, people are looking for a bargain. You do it every day. You want to pay less for your underwear, so you buy it at WalMart instead of the mom & pop downtown. They go out of business and you get your underwear for a dollar less.
Automation made live jocks obsolete forty years ago. Transmitter meter readings were automated in the 70s. Music logs were automated in the 80s. These days, a jock sits there for 15 minutes while all the segues and commercial breaks are done in a computer. It’s like going to a Jennifer Lopez concert. The only times the mic is live is when she shouts “How’re you doin,’ Chicago?” Then she’s lip-syncing for the rest of the show. You pay to be in the room with her, not to hear her sing. And she’s not the only one. That’s what being a jock today is.MRBIboredop said:
MRBIboredop said:
Of course not. Are you telling me companies pay the same for someone in India to answer the phone as they did for someone in Boston? Of course not. Are all the costs associated with running a radio station the same as they were 30 years ago? No. Rent, insurance, salaries, utilities, etc have all gone up. In the last five years, ad prices have gone down. So who pays the difference? When costs go up in most businesses, you pass those increases on to the consumer. But radio is still free for the listener. I can’t increase the spot load any higher than it is now, because the listeners tune out. So I’m squeezed between listeners who want radio for free, increased costs, and declining revenues. What do I do?
MassMusicMan
Banned
1) The guy training his replacement is a disgusting story, and is exactly like the housekeepers getting laid off from Hyatt. As a consumer, I will vote with my wallet and not patronize Hyatt. Maybe the fired family man should go to the newspaper. Maybe he has some fans who will lead a boycott of the station's advertisers.
2) Joe Bob voicetracking for two hours for $40 is $20/hour. That's fair. Now if it takes him 8 hours to do that work, that's $5/hour, which is against the law. And that's on him, not on the firm paying him. We have a minimum wage to prevent people who are willing to live in squalor from undercutting those who want to make a livable wage and not live hand-to-mouth.
This is why we have unions. I'm all for the free market when it comes to competition for goods and services, but it doesn't work with labor when you're trying to make a good life for yourself, and somebody sells you out.
As for the Big A's assertion that people would tune out with longer stopsets, why don't you call the other owners in your market and establish a cartel? Doesn't Boston radio have that now? I can tune to all six stations on my preset and hear commercials on every single one. It's as if CC, GM, CBS and ETM all got together and said "we will compete for individual advertisers, but we will synchronize our clocks to ensure that everybody who likes rock-based music from the 70's will hear commercials at :45 past."
2) Joe Bob voicetracking for two hours for $40 is $20/hour. That's fair. Now if it takes him 8 hours to do that work, that's $5/hour, which is against the law. And that's on him, not on the firm paying him. We have a minimum wage to prevent people who are willing to live in squalor from undercutting those who want to make a livable wage and not live hand-to-mouth.
This is why we have unions. I'm all for the free market when it comes to competition for goods and services, but it doesn't work with labor when you're trying to make a good life for yourself, and somebody sells you out.
As for the Big A's assertion that people would tune out with longer stopsets, why don't you call the other owners in your market and establish a cartel? Doesn't Boston radio have that now? I can tune to all six stations on my preset and hear commercials on every single one. It's as if CC, GM, CBS and ETM all got together and said "we will compete for individual advertisers, but we will synchronize our clocks to ensure that everybody who likes rock-based music from the 70's will hear commercials at :45 past."
Will said:
It happened a long time ago...that guy passed away from cancer ten years ago. But it's the way things are. Welcome to the real world. It happens in all lines of work. There is no such thing as a job for life.
Will said:
Where do you think the money comes from to pay the workers? From the goods & services. So if competition drives down the price of the goods & services, that leaves less money to pay the workers. Which is where we are now in radio. I've worked in the union. A union can't protect you when your job is eliminated. It happened to me twice. They just stood there while I got my pink slip, to make sure it happened in a respectful way. Thanks a lot.
As for the comment about stopsets happening at the same time, that's how things were done under diary-based ratings. Under PPM, you will see stations changing that so there is counter-programming during stopsets. But at the end of the day, if you're a listener, and you're avoiding commercials, you're taking money out of the pockets of radio employees. Just like buying cheaper products at Wal Mart.
MassMusicMan
Banned
Maybe you should all solicit donations like WGBH and WBUR do.
Will said:
It's not allowed. If you're a commercial station, you can't ask for donations.
But at the same time, the non-coms are experiencing a drop in donations. So that's no solution. When the beg-athons come on, people tune out. Less than 10% of the audience actually donates. That means 90% are freeloaders. How can you pay a staff that way?
MassMusicMan
Banned
Diversify your business. Don't just be a radio station. Be like Berkshire Hathaway and have a variety of interests.
Will said:
That's what stations are trying to do. And that's why air talent is getting cut. Onair is declining, so they take money and staff from there and put it in online and mobile. That's why, in keeping with this thread, voicetracking will continue even after the economy picks up. Because the old ways are over. We don't need as many horses when everyone is driving cars.
MassMusicMan
Banned
That's the way it should be. Only time you need somebody live on the radio is if you're taking phone calls or giving away prizes. Mix is the only station I hear that consistently does this in all dayparts. Not coincidentally, they're also the most fun to listen to and are #1 on my preset.
- Status