WINS goes iboc When Did This Happen? (aircheck)

[LinoNYC]

http://www.sendspace.com/file/dxf1aj 5 mb mp3@320

While getting reacquainted with New York radio I discovered that WINS is now iboc.

With this addition we now have 8 AM stations in HD.

I'am not going to pretend that I don't hear SBR on this signal, but its still decent.

Note: At the beginning I switched off carrier then back to show the buffer interval, also, WINS is only 4 of 5 bars on the signal/buffer indicator.

Lino

 

[Savage]

Poor KDKA.

Between WINS and WBZ (literally) the nation's first commercial station must not be making it past Monroeville, PA. As it was, it took all of KD's 50kw to overcome the WBZ hash in the next County to the east, Westmoreland.

 

[R.F. Burns]

Poor KDKA.

Between WINS and WBZ (literally) the nation's first commercial station must not be making it past Monroeville, PA. As it was, it took all of KD's 50kw to overcome the WBZ hash in the next County to the east, Westmoreland.

Hardly an issue Bob. WINS is very directional to the east/south east;

http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=WINS&service=AM&status=L&hours=N


Snce deregulation and the increased noise level on the AM BCB KDKA isn't heard all that well in our area anyway, same for WBZ. Getting back to the WINS HD issue, its a non issue for anyone outside of Long Island and KDKA doesn't do all that well on Long Island.

 

[Savage]

You misunderstood me, RF. I meant KDKA's local (Pittsburgh) coverage, not its DX coverage. I still have friends in Pittsburgh - actually our station carries one of KD's major competitors, Jim Quinn, who hosts the morning show on CC's FM talker there. Jim and others, including a colleague smaller-station owner, confirm: WBZ is utterly obliterating KDKA within its LOCAL market. Basically KDKA is reliably listenable at night only in Allegheny County without any IBOC contribution from the lower sideband.

WINS may be highly directional but most nights it's readable here in Western NY nothwithstanding CFRB across the Lake. If the WINS carrier is that strong 200 air miles WNW of NYC, the COFDM upper sideband has got to be contributing to the LOCAL noise floor for KDKA within its market.

 

[dustintv]

It happened last year, I forget when but I remember them making the annoucement of them turning off the signal overnight for a few hours to install it.

And yes, Mr. Savage is correct WINS does travel really far despite the directional signal! I've finally heard it myself up my neck of the woods andaround the Rochester area, and when I was down visiting my grandparents who live near Harrisburg, Pennsylvania last Christmas and it came in quite clear.

 

[wgliradio]

Actually it happened at 12:01am this morning.

On Long Island, KDKA and WBZ are (were) easy catches.

 

[KB1OKL]

I was able to receive KDKA here in MA before WBZ turned on the big buzz saw. It was not strong by any means but was very listenable.

 

[LinoNYC]

I was able to receive KDKA here in MA before WBZ turned on the big buzz saw. It was not strong by any means but was very listenable.

Let's try a little experiment; go to any local business up there in Beantown and ask if they are interested in advertising at KDKA in Pittsburgh. No interest up there?

Alright, go out to Steeltown and knock on KDKA's door and ask if if they would be interested in trying to sell inventory to listeners in MA.

Good luck,

Lino

 

[Savage]

No, Lino. This is a rhetorical trick which has been attempted many, many times before. Of course no local advertiser in Massachusetts is interested in advertising in Pittsburgh or NYC. Everyone knows that's not the issue.

There may be relatively few KDKA listeners on Long Island or Cape Cod (although there may be more than you suggest.) However there are many, many listeners which KDKA has lost in Westmoreland and Washington Counties, PA, part of the Pittsburgh metro, because of IBOC noise. Check the Pittsburgh board here.

Then you have the fact that KDKA is willfully reducing its primary local coverage as its engineers struggle with the CBS corporate mandate to get IBOC working with the station's Franklin antenna, "no matter what." KD continues to operate with an STA at 35kw. It's been over a year. This is NOT operating in the public interest, convenience and necessity. This is operating in the interests of Bob Struble and Glynn Walden. KDKA needs get knock off dorking around with this stupid digital system and return to its full authorized power, or surrender the authorization.

My North Jersey sources say that because of very poor pattern bandwidth, WINS is unlistenable in that region to analog listeners because of severe self-interference. That's one of the many problems with HD-AM. It just doesn't work with a large percentage of DA designs. See my above comment about operating in the public interest.

CBS is virtually the only remaining major radio company stubbornly pursuing IBOC like this.

 

[LinoNYC]

No, Lino. This is a rhetorical trick which has been attempted many, many times before. Of course no local advertiser in Massachusetts is interested in advertising in Pittsburgh or NYC. Everyone knows that's not the issue.

There may be relatively few KDKA listeners on Long Island or Cape Cod (although there may be more than you suggest.) However there are many, many listeners which KDKA has lost in Westmoreland and Washington Counties, PA, part of the Pittsburgh metro, because of IBOC noise. Check the Pittsburgh board here.

Then you have the fact that KDKA is willfully reducing its primary local coverage as its engineers struggle with the CBS corporate mandate to get IBOC working with the station's Franklin antenna, "no matter what." KD continues to operate with an STA at 35kw. It's been over a year. This is NOT operating in the public interest, convenience and necessity. This is operating in the interests of Bob Struble and Glynn Walden. KDKA needs get knock off dorking around with this stupid digital system and return to its full authorized power, or surrender the authorization.

My North Jersey sources say that because of very poor pattern bandwidth, WINS is unlistenable in that region to analog listeners because of severe self-interference. That's one of the many problems with HD-AM. It just doesn't work with a large percentage of DA designs. See my above comment about operating in the public interest.

CBS is virtually the only remaining major radio company stubbornly pursuing IBOC like this.

There may be relatively few KDKA listeners on Long Island or Cape Cod (although there may be more than you suggest.) However there are many, many listeners which KDKA has lost in Westmoreland and Washington Counties, PA, part of the Pittsburgh metro, because of IBOC noise. Check the Pittsburgh board here.

This one?http://www.radio-info.com/smf/index.php/topic,100170.0.html

The topic you started and which has gotten all of 6 responses two of which are yours. Being alittle tricky here aren't we.

Nonetheless I did enjoy your brief treatise on the Franklin antenna!

KD continues to operate with an STA at 35kw. It's been over a year.

Doesn't seem to have had much affect they have bounced around the same range:

8.4-8.0-8.3-8.2

This is NOT operating in the public interest, convenience and necessity.

Should I point out the irony of you making that statement........

Then there this article:http://ftp.media.radcity.net/ZMST/daily/IS120805.htm

Quote:Nearly 70% of KDKA's 12+ audience is 55+.

this article appears to have been written 3 years ago, think things have gotten any better since?

Face it Bob, "Antique Modulation" as we know it is terminal. The reason owners are putting what is for them chump change into this scheme is to try and survive.

Lino

 

[amfmsw]

Lino, respectfully, it has made the mid band of commercial radio a junyard.

Franklin antenna: http://www.fybush.com/sites/2005/site-051028.html

 

[Savage]

The Pittsburgh thread you cite is only the latest. There have been several which originated long before the one I started. Besides we're not talking about who started threads or who-struck-John.

Oh, KDKA (and you) have concluded the station doesn't need 50kw in the wonderful Era Of HD-AM, noting their signal strength is about the same (apparently you're citing a communications receiver S-meter?)
Actually, Lino, you know what? You're right. KDKA's reduction from 50 to 35kw has only resulted in a decrease is RMS field of 1.549 db. So, great! The station should be content serving the area of Allegheny County within sight of its tower with pristine hybrid AM, surrender its 50kw authorization and permanently reduce power. My friend at WIBG 1020 in northern NJ will, I'm sure, welcome the opportunity to increase daytime power.

As far as KDKA's efforts to "try and survive," I will simply point out: only CBS Radio could so thoroughly screw up legendary KDKA, the nation's first commercial radio station. Now that they've trashed the programming, heck - why not make the signal unlistenable too? Makes perfect sense, I'm sure, to IBOC fans.

 

[LinoNYC]

Oh, KDKA (and you) have concluded the station doesn't need 50kw in the wonderful Era Of HD-AM, noting their signal strength is about the same (apparently you're citing a communications receiver S-meter?)

Just to clear this up.those are Arb 12+ over the last year.

As far as KDKA's efforts to "try and survive," I will simply point out: only CBS Radio could so thoroughly screw up legendary KDKA, the nation's first commercial radio station. Now that they've trashed the programming, heck - why not make the signal unlistenable too? Makes perfect sense, I'm sure, to IBOC fans.

I'am not familiar with the station's former 'trashed" fare. If you mean no Limbaugh and less conservatives on a station that caters to 55+, all I can say is that I'am getting perilously close to that demo (51) and I hope I never develop a taste for the Porcine Blabber. That audience is not just redlining at Mad Ave, they are dieing.

Lino

 

[KB1OKL]

Face it Bob, "Antique Modulation" as we know it is terminal. The reason owners are putting what is for them chump change into this scheme is to try and survive.

Lino

Analog vs HD reminds me of the democratic race, a year ago it was all but a fact that the democrats would win this year (without getting into politics,) now we have Obama and Hillary fighting each other chasing off many democrats and disgusting many of them so much that perhaps many won't vote, this could tip things toward the republican side. I believe one of them should have dropped out months ago for the democratic party cause, you can guess which one.
I wonder if this idiotic IBOC vs analog is going to completely ruin what is left of terrestrial radio and chase everyone toward either the computer or Satellite? I believe the former. I also believe one of them is selfishly pursuing it's own agenda and ruining what is left of terrestrial radio in the process, you can probably guess that one too.

 

[SUPERCASTER]

I was able to receive KDKA here in MA before WBZ turned on the big buzz saw. It was not strong by any means but was very listenable.

Let's try a little experiment; go to any local business up there in Beantown and ask if they are interested in advertising at KDKA in Pittsburgh. No interest up there?

Alright, go out to Steeltown and knock on KDKA's door and ask if if they would be interested in trying to sell inventory to listeners in MA.

Good luck,

Lino

Better yet, ask anyone anywhere if they want to buy time on HD-2, HD-3 radio channels, with no measurable audience.

Likely responses:
Blank stare, or side splitting laughter depending on whether they ever heard of HD radio.

More likely you'll find someone out of town who is willing to buy time on a distant station with an Arbitron rated audience. Even local businesses have sales websites now.

 

[LinoNYC]

More likely you'll find someone out of town who is willing to buy time on a distant station with an Arbitron rated audience. Even local businesses have sales websites now.

Good luck with that, it hasn't worked yet.

Here in market #1 there are now 8 AM iboc stations. Over twice as many as ever went AM stereo in either Kahn or C-Quam.

Almost all the commercial and two non-comm FM are iboc too.

Why do I always have to break bad news to these types

Lino

 

[Savage]

And, I would be willing to bet, in all-knowing, savvy world-wise Market #1 there are also about 8 HD-AM LISTENERS.

It's pretty much beyond dispute that "bad news" these days mostly afflicts HD Radio boosters, not critics. If you bother to look at the real world and not iBiquity/Alliance press releases, that is.

 

[LinoNYC]

And, I would be willing to bet, in all-knowing, savvy world-wise Market #1 there are also about 8 HD-AM LISTENERS.

It's pretty much beyond dispute that "bad news" these days mostly afflicts HD Radio boosters, not critics. If you bother to look at the real world and not iBiquity/Alliance press releases, that is.

Well according to the Radio Shack dealers nearest me they have sold just over 3 times that number of Acurians and Ba's when still stocked. Supposedly, none returned.

I will agree that it's likely that few of these buyers are listening to AM.

It's pretty much beyond dispute that "bad news" these days mostly afflicts HD Radio boosters, not critics

Isn't this another one of your "Rovian" spin jobs. Sorta like "post iboc" world or whatever. While I was gone WQEW went 24/7 with iboc and shortly after returning the city's #1 news station did too.

You do seem to have abundant time to cruise these various boards looking for any way to stir (or create) anti-iboc sentiment. Does not appear anyone important is paying attention.

You can flail about all you want, I just posted a solid 12 hours of WABC's rewound in iboc. No reversion, no core mode, no special antenna.

It may not work for every listener, every station but it is the only thing that offers any hope of AM radio surviving and serving listeners.

Lino

 

[Savage]

THIS JUST IN in the "great-news-from IBOC" press service! TWENTY-FIVE Accurians/BAs reported sold in New York (did anybody mention it's "MARKET NUMBER ONE??") And that was, according to our source, "when still stocked" at the Shack. Which they aren't. If HD Radio was such a rip-roaring success why would the two primary marketers discontinue their products with no announced plans for replacement devices?

So your RS reported "no returns." Given personal (albeit nonscientific) observation of HD Radio at retail and virtually all posts on this board, this is highly unusual. Note the comments here about how the Sony XDR tabletop receiver is already on clearance at a "toss-out-the-door" price.

Your comment about "few listening to AM" sounds like about 90% personal shot and 10% actual observation on HD listenership, but even extrapolating typical AM-FM audience distribution to the HD universe, the IBOC audience is still laughably small - on EITHER band.

You keep braying about how HD "is the only thing that offers any hope of AM radio survivng." You also frequently demand proof for the assertions of others on this board. So, given that over 200 major-market, well-financed AM stations have been been running HD-AM for several years now, can you offer a SINGLE real-world HD-AM success story, where exists measurable audience increases attributable to IBOC implementation?

My bet is: no.

If anything, the evidence is mounting that HD sideband interference is further eroding AM audiences.

BTW, I've heard from a reliable industry website host and internal sources at CBS, the engineering staff at "NYC's #1 news station" is in practically open revolt over WINS' recent implementation of IBOC. Reports from "market #1" are that the self-interference on 1010 is horrible. I'm told Glynn Walden and a small handful of his disciples are the only CBS people still supporting IBOC.

Be my guest: keep hurling personal invective from the lonely HD Radio bunker. One by one, IBOC's enthusiasts have been quietly edging towards the exits as the system's manifest, and fatal, faults become more and more apparent. Any reasonable observer has to concede: HD has been an engineering, marketing and regulatory disaster.

The irony of your comment about how I "have abundant time to cruise these boards" should be apparent to anyone.

 

[R.F. Burns]

Engineering staff? They have maybe two enginers total at WINS and I know them both. I haven't heard a thing about any revolt over IBOC. C'mon, you don't like the system but it is making inroads. So far in NYC no one has turned their IBOC off for any purpose other then maintanence.