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WKDN Changing From Non-Comm Back to Commercial?

danikayser84 said:
w9wi: Does it matter if the signal is directional or not, like with AM? When a 105.7 (now WQSH) moved from Glens Falls to Albany, it had to change from nondirectional to directional to protect a 105.5 (WSKU) and 105.7 (WMRV-FM) to the west and a 105.5 (WVEI-FM) to the east :)
Click to expand...

As Scott says, you can't use a directional antenna to allow *allocation* of a channel to a city where it couldn't otherwise be allocated. You can use one to allow installation of the *tower* in a location where it wouldn't otherwise be permitted. But there's a limit to how much you can reduce protection distances by using a directional antenna, and the distance figures I posted already take that into account. (so you can't use a DA to locate a hypothetical 94.9 station closer than 60 miles to WZZO, for example.)

I think the bottom line is, as Scott says, with so much money at stake, if it was possible to use a frequency in Philadelphia, someone would have already done it.
 
In the specific case of what's now WQSH, they were able to identify a spot on the east side of I-87 just north of the NY 67 exit in Malta that qualified as a fully-spaced set of allocation coordinates. There doesn't have to be (and isn't) an actual tower there...but it has to at least be a spot where a tower could theoretically be placed (i.e., not in the middle of a river or a state park) where a fully-spaced signal of the desired class could be placed.

Once those "allocation coordinates" were assigned, WQSH was then able to apply to use a directional antenna to go where it really wanted to go, which was the top of Bald Mountain, northeast of Troy and closer to Albany.
 
Er...no.

Remember that there are second-adjacent spacings to be considered, too - 69 km between an A and a second-adjacent B, 74 km between two Bs.

Go 74 km out from either WISX on 106.1 or WKDN on 106.9 and you're well outside of Philadelphia entirely. You can't go west or south because of WWMX, and you can't go east because of the 106.5 at the Jersey Shore. That one's a B1, and the minimum co-channel spacing between a B1 and an A is 143 km. There's also 106.5 in Bloomsburg PA and 106.7s in NYC and Hershey to get in the way.
 
Can someone explain the 60dBu contour to me? What does that mean?
Here is a chewer.
The former channel 6 anolog was at 87.75 MHZ if i'm not mistaken.
Was that the actual broadcast of the frequency of channel 6 TV? or was that a simmocast in mono at very low audio on the radio?
Is the DTV signal on the same frequency?
Or is the government gonna auxin off the frequency to be used in broadband access?
I was gonna suggest putting something on something like 87.7.
However I'm not sure how the spacing works as there are 88.1 that would be considered fringe.
In bensalem it is possible for me to get Thunder106.5 (WTHK?), and I've gottten the hersy 106.7 as DX Tropo. WWMX/Baltimore 106.5 I've gotten as a tropo station too. I dont see how 106.5 could be used.
WLTW i can null out WKDN to get also.
In the car, with aradio not nearly that sullective and not nearly as good an antenna as on my rooph),Thunder 106 can come in with fadeing and sometimes clearer depending on weather conditions.
 
John Holcomb II said:
Can someone explain the 60dBu contour to me? What does that mean?
Click to expand...

dBu is short for "decibels below one microvolt." It's a measure of signal strength at any given location. A 70 dBu signal is considered "city-grade". 60 dBu is a little weaker, but still more than strong enough to be heard clearly on most radios absent co-channel interference. 40 dBu is about the weakest signal that's usually usable on a car radio. The area within which the signal is 60 dBu or stronger is the "60 dBu contour." For a class B signal, that's about 35 miles out from the tower.

Here is a chewer.
The former channel 6 anolog was at 87.75 MHZ if i'm not mistaken.
Was that the actual broadcast of the frequency of channel 6 TV? or was that a simmocast in mono at very low audio on the radio?
Is the DTV signal on the same frequency?
Or is the government gonna auxin off the frequency to be used in broadband access?
Click to expand...

87.75 was the actual TV audio frequency. The entire bandwidth of channel 6 fell between 82 and 88 MHz. In analog TV, the audio carrier was .25 MHz below the top of the channel. Analog TV audio was modulated at a lower level than FM radio audio, which is why it was always quieter than the FM stations.

In the case of WPVI, it's still on channel 6. The data that makes up its DTV signal is also spread out from 82-88 MHz, so you can't put an FM station on those frequencies.
 
jmtillery said:
After the WKDN divesture, this will leave Family Stations with two viable and valuable remaining FM properties: WFME-FM 94.7 B Newark, New Jersey [New York]; and, WFSI-FM 107.9 B Annapolis, Maryland [Baltimore - Washington]. Everything else in the Family station portfolio is either AM, NCE-FM or translators/satellators.
Click to expand...
Keep in mind that WFSI, like WKDN is also on the block. Some years back Family Stations bought two Class-D stations in Baltimore (WBMD, 750 and WBGR, 860) for what reasons I don't know! The former has no nighttime service and a 730-watt daytime signal, the latter has a 2,500 watt daytime signal and a paltry 66 watts at night. If Family Radio intends to stay in Philly, I just hope they don't get 610, 950 or 1060. If they want 800, 860, 990, 1340 or 1480, fine.
 
Scott Fybush said:
John Holcomb II said:
Can someone explain the 60dBu contour to me? What does that mean?
Click to expand...

dBu is short for "decibels below one microvolt." It's a measure of signal strength at any given location. A 70 dBu signal is considered "city-grade". 60 dBu is a little weaker, but still more than strong enough to be heard clearly on most radios absent co-channel interference. 40 dBu is about the weakest signal that's usually usable on a car radio. The area within which the signal is 60 dBu or stronger is the "60 dBu contour." For a class B signal, that's about 35 miles out from the tower.
Click to expand...

Actually, decibels above one microvolt per meter ;)
 
DCRTV.com is reporting "rumblings, nothing official yet" that CBS is getting Family Stations' Balto/DC signal, 107.9, WFSI, which went up for sale at the same time as WKDN did.

We could see KYW-FM soon.

Only question: Will Family Stations take 610, since CBS is already at market cap, or will someone else buy the station, or will it go into a trust until it can be sold?

What will happen with the iconic KYW Newsradio 1060 jingle if an FM is added?
 
Mike said:
i wonder if family radio is going to apply for a translator somewhere on the dial instead of buying an am station ?
Click to expand...

It's going to be awhile before the FCC accepts any applications for new translators. My guess is about a year. (that's a WILD guess)

They could potentially buy an existing translator.

Either way, they have to have something to relay. I suppose they could possibly sell WKDN to CBS (or someone else), then lease back the HD2 & relay that.

My personal opinion is a 610<=>106.9 trade is the most likely scenario.
 
radiophiler said:
DCRTV.com is reporting "rumblings, nothing official yet" that CBS is getting Family Stations' Balto/DC signal, 107.9, WFSI, which went up for sale at the same time as WKDN did.

We could see KYW-FM soon.

Only question: Will Family Stations take 610, since CBS is already at market cap, or will someone else buy the station, or will it go into a trust until it can be sold?

What will happen with the iconic KYW Newsradio 1060 jingle if an FM is added?
Click to expand...

KYW Newsradio 1069 doesn't sound that much different than KYW Newsradio 1060
 
They could go the old, classic AM route when small transistor radios left off a 0 or two on their dial. "K-Y-W, News-radio, One-Oh-Six."

Or leave off the frequency entirely. "K-Y-W, News-Radio, Phila-del-phia...."
 
Still all the talk about KYW going to FM. Last time I checked KYW is STILL number 1 in Philly. The only way I could foresee a move to FM, is if there were a direct competitor on FM. Eventually all AM will die, but KYW still has alot of life left on AM. I wouldn't expect a move.
 
Re: the jingle. I don't think 106.9 would too different sounding.

You go from "K-Y-W, News-radio, ten-sixtyyyyy ... too... "K-Y-W, News-radio, One-Oh-Six-nineeeee" Certainly would work better then the other CBS stations. "K-Y-W, News-radio, nintyfour-oneeee" or ""K-Y-W, News-radio, "K-Y-W, News-radio, One-Oh-Six."nintyeight-oneeee" would be worse.

I could see them just flat out trading 1060 instead of 610. 610 still has a use for CBS as it broadcasts westwood one games & overflow games. I suppose they could still put overflow games on 1060 if need be however.
 
If CBS gets 106.9 and chooses to put KYW on it and CBS is required by the FCC to get rid of one station. Does CBS get rid of 610 and put WIP on FM only and keep KYW on 1060 as well as simulcasting on FM? It seems like 106.9 would be used to fill holes that 1060 has in Bucks County and under all the power lines. Would you keep the brand as KYW Newsradio 1060 and after every jingle mention also on FM at 106.9? I think CBS could take the risk and move WIP totally over but I'm not sure they would take the risk with KYW. Not sure what to do with the overflow and network programming that is on WIP-AM, possibly put on one of the KYWs? Not sure AM or FM.
 
I think what you are suggesting makes sense: 1060 and 106.9 carry KYW; 94.1 exclusively carries WIP; 610 goes to Family Radio.

For these operations, it follows patterns established elsewhere by CBS: sports only on FM in Boston, Wahsington, Baltimore; news on both AM and FM in San Francisco and Chicago. I think that is an indicator of their tolerance of risk.

1210 has been, and can continue to be, available for sports overflow coverage, with minimal impact to morning and evening drive time programming or to Rush.
 
Washington is mentioned with respect to sports WJFK on FM. Only Chicago and San Franscisco are mentioned regarding CBS news stations.

CBS doesn't own a news operation in Washington. Not yet anyway. Check out DCRTV though.
 
observer2 said:
Washington is mentioned with respect to sports WJFK on FM. Only Chicago and San Franscisco are mentioned regarding CBS news stations.

CBS doesn't own a news operation in Washington. Not yet anyway. Check out DCRTV though.
Click to expand...
http://www.dcrtv.com/
From what I understand, CBS could buy WFSI Annapolis (107.9). With the dominance of WTOP in that area, I have to question how wise a move that would really be. The best format for 107.9 would be for them to go Black Gospel; be it with Radio-One or Clear Channel. If the Former, I'd strongly suggest that they unload some of their under-preforming operations in that area. If the latter, try to resist the temptation of selling 600 over to Family Stations.
 
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