WKSW move to Enon approved

[One Who Knows]

...and what about Urbana?

Since the move is a given...Urbana now needs it's own community station.

Urbana High School once had WUHS....its own station at 91.7 FM but went silent in 1989.

Unless a window opens soon for an LPFM,some enterprising individual may want to start up a micropower or internet station or a micropower that streams.

A micropower version of Ottawa's WPNM is on the air...it also streams for the rest of Putnam County.

After WUCO Marysville moved its studios to Columbus as "St. Gabriel Radio" Gene Kirby of WRPO started up WMHO a micropower AM.

Now before the corporate sharks start sharpening their teeth,may I add that these are Part 15 legal broadcasters who have stepped up to fill a local void..they are NOT pirate stations...so leave them alone and let them serve their small communities.

More info about micropower stations that serve a community purpose is found here.

http://www.radiobrandy.com
http://www.radiobrandy.com/Part15AM1620.html

Micropower stations would be OK, but Springfield can handle and support an LP-FM. And the signal coverage of an LP-FM would likely cover the city better than a Part 15.

 

[kirkiefan]

That is agreed. An LPFM in Springfield would work..(I'm a bit surprised I can pick up Radio U's Springfield translator at 98.7 close to downtown!...but that's another story.)

It would be nice if the former WUHS frequency can be opened up once again for Urbana...otherwise micropower would be the way to go.

I'm still in hopes that WKSW's studios will stay in Springfield..remember WDHT's COL will become Urbana although its still transmitting from tgeh Miller Rd tower...the old WCOM(WKSW) tower on Dugan Rd. can perhaps be a future LPFM site if such a window opens up. I've heard discussions on these boards about a year or so ago that the folks in St. Paris are willing to support an LPFM there so that may present a contest between the two communities if such a window does open.

 

[Timewarp]

I have done some stupid things in my life. But if I spent the money to build a part 15 AM,
that would be my record.

The Dayton area was one of the first places in this country to make the switch from AM to FM.
This is because of WTUE and WVUD. Also Urbana never had AM. WCOM was FM.

Therefore we have at least 2 generations who used AM very little. They are not going to AM now.

The WUHS frequency was enliminated by a WYSO upgrade in the 1980's.

There are enough frequencies open in the commercial FM band for Springfield, Urbana,
St Paris, and Trotwood to have new stations,. If everyone uses their head, at least 4 new guys get on the air. If the lawyers have their way, you all apply for the same channel and no one will get on the air.

 

[KevinFodor]

I have done some stupid things in my life. But if I spent the money to build a part 15 AM,
that would be my record.

The Dayton area was one of the first places in this country to make the switch from AM to FM.
This is because of WTUE and WVUD. Also Urbana never had AM. WCOM was FM.

Therefore we have at least 2 generations who used AM very little. They are not going to AM now.

The WUHS frequency was enliminated by a WYSO upgrade in the 1980's.

There are enough frequencies open in the commercial FM band for Springfield, Urbana,
St Paris, and Trotwood to have new stations,. If everyone uses their head, at least 4 new guys get on the air. If the lawyers have their way, you all apply for the same channel and no one will get on the air.

Actually, Dayton's FM audience goes well back before WTUE and WVUD...

WHIO-FM was #1 in Dayton by the early to mid 1960's. And, for a very good reason - The late Governor James M. Cox didn't think anyone was listening to FM then, so he ordered that there be no strong attempt to sell commercials on 99.1.

So, what happens when you have a popular format (for the day) and virtually no commercials? The day after WHIO-FM was discovered to have a BIG audience, they started selling commercials on it.

And, you also forget that WDAO-FM (107.7) came on the air in 1964. It gained audience primarily because it was a unique format. No station in the area outright targeted black listeners (or the white kids who liked to listen to R & B). Yes, crossover music was played on the WING's and WONE's of the day, but WDAO-FM gave black listeners (and those white kids who liked the music), a reason to listen to FM.

Granted, the appearance of WVUD (as a prog-rocker) and WTUE (as a Top 40 station) certainly drew young people to FM. But, there was audience paying attention to FM well before those two stations came along.

And remember - in the early to mid 60's, elevator music appealed to the 35-54 year old audience, so it wasn't people in their 70's listening back then...

 

[Limp73]

The WUHS frequency was enliminated by a WYSO upgrade in the 1980's.

You forgot WDEQ DeGraff(programmed by my freind Gene Kirby of WRPO) moved to the 91.7 frequency a number of years back after WUHS went dark.

(Kirkiefan, take note...91.7 is no longer an option in Urbana for both reasons.)

 

[alans613]

I have done some stupid things in my life. But if I spent the money to build a part 15 AM,
that would be my record.

The Dayton area was one of the first places in this country to make the switch from AM to FM.
This is because of WTUE and WVUD. Also Urbana never had AM. WCOM was FM.

Therefore we have at least 2 generations who used AM very little. They are not going to AM now.

The WUHS frequency was enliminated by a WYSO upgrade in the 1980's.

There are enough frequencies open in the commercial FM band for Springfield, Urbana,
St Paris, and Trotwood to have new stations,. If everyone uses their head, at least 4 new guys get on the air. If the lawyers have their way, you all apply for the same channel and no one will get on the air.

Actually, Dayton's FM audience goes well back before WTUE and WVUD...

WHIO-FM was #1 in Dayton by the early to mid 1960's. And, for a very good reason - The late Governor James M. Cox didn't think anyone was listening to FM then, so he ordered that there be no strong attempt to sell commercials on 99.1.

So, what happens when you have a popular format (for the day) and virtually no commercials? The day after WHIO-FM was discovered to have a BIG audience, they started selling commercials on it.

And, you also forget that WDAO-FM (107.7) came on the air in 1964. It gained audience primarily because it was a unique format. No station in the area outright targeted black listeners (or the white kids who liked to listen to R & B). Yes, crossover music was played on the WING's and WONE's of the day, but WDAO-FM gave black listeners (and those white kids who liked the music), a reason to listen to FM.

Granted, the appearance of WVUD (as a prog-rocker) and WTUE (as a Top 40 station) certainly drew young people to FM. But, there was audience paying attention to FM well before those two stations came along.

And remember - in the early to mid 60's, elevator music appealed to the 35-54 year old audience, so it wasn't people in their 70's listening back then...

WOW! I remember listening to WDAO on 107.7 as a young kid back in the early 80s and remembering how disappointed I was when I learned that it had been sold and was flipping to AC as Star 107.7 WWSN. Anyone know any details on the sell/flip to AC on 107.7 back then? For some reason I remember hearing Midnight Star's "Operator" on WDAO quite a bit back then.

 

[gr8oldies]

Stoner bought WAVI/WDAO from Bud Crowl and decided there was more money to be made with A/C then soul so they killed the AM talk, went A/C on FM and put WDAO on AM, top howls of protest and accusations of racism. However, they must have done something right since 107.7 remains A/C to this day.

 

[alans613]

Stoner bought WAVI/WDAO from Bud Crowl and decided there was more money to be made with A/C then soul so they killed the AM talk, went A/C on FM and put WDAO on AM, top howls of protest and accusations of racism. However, they must have done something right since 107.7 remains A/C to this day.

Thanks gr8! I remember 107.7 was more like Lite 99.9 is today way back then, a Soft AC. I think Randy James brought Hot AC to 107.7 sometime in the early 90s.

 

[inquisitor]

WOW! I remember listening to WDAO on 107.7 as a young kid back in the early 80s and remembering how disappointed I was when I learned that it had been sold and was flipping to AC as Star 107.7 WWSN. Anyone know any details on the sell/flip to AC on 107.7 back then? For some reason I remember hearing Midnight Star's "Operator" on WDAO quite a bit back then.

I remember DX-ing back in those days and thinking to myself what a great-sounding station it was.

 

[KevinFodor]

Stoner bought WAVI/WDAO from Bud Crowl and decided there was more money to be made with A/C then soul so they killed the AM talk, went A/C on FM and put WDAO on AM, top howls of protest and accusations of racism. However, they must have done something right since 107.7 remains A/C to this day.

Sadly, Gr8t brings up a good point that is still rearing its head today - the matter of a "no urban dictate".

Many owners back then shunned urban formats because a number of advertisers would direct their agencies to, under no circumstance, buy advertising on urban-programmed formats. Though I never worked for Stoner, it wouldn't surprise me to discover that's probably one reason why the format on 107-7 was flipped. Urban was clearly a harder sell back then. Then, you throw in advertisers you know you wouldn't get because of a "no urban dictate", and the die was cast.

That should not, however, suggest that it was not possible to make money with an Urban format. Over the years, WDAO-FM made far more money than sister WAVI-AM ever did. It was the late Bud Crowl's "cash cow". And yes, Crowl and his sales staff fought with agencies over "no urban dictates" for years.

But, once more "corporate" style owners came into the picture, the decision became: "on one hand, we could keep it urban and fight with agencies, or on the other hand, change the format to something more mainstream and have fewer agency headaches". Obviously, in the case of 107.7, "something more mainstream" was the obvious choice. And really, it's a business decision, not racial.

Similarly, an Urban I worked for in the 70's could not get a local black Cadillac dealer to buy ads. Why? The dealer would tell you, "I get too many repo's with listeners from your station that I sell". In his case, too...it's not racial...it was business.

Today, the "No urban dictate" has basically been outlawed, and I think overall, it's a good thing. But just recently, one agency caught a whole lot of flap when a buyer put out a buy request that had the caviat, "No urban stations should be considered", or some language to that effect.

Interestingly enough (though this has nothing to do with no-urban dictates), other area groups were looking at the success WAVI Broadcasting was having with WDAO-FM, but looked at it in another way. WONE-FM (104.7) was placed on the air in the late 60's as an automated Top 40 station, and, so the story goes, Program Director Rick Stevens was told to program it well enough to "cut into the ratings" of WING, but not allow the station to become so successful that "it would create a WAVI/WDAO situation where the FM (WONE-FM, later WTUE) would be more popular than the AM
(Country WONE)." I would imagine that attitude changed when they re-imaged 104.7 in the early 70's as WTUE and went Top 40 with live jocks. At least I've never gotten the impression from anyone I've spoken with over the years who ever worked for PD Bill Struck that there were any attempts at that point to hold the station back. Still, it's an interesting story.

 

[nmoore6676]

Re: Urban Format in the Miami Valley. Does any one else recall this, it must have been in the 60's when 102.9 was still WBLY-FM that there was a brief time when late at night they had a program of similar music to WDAO? It probably went on at 11 or midnight as I believe.

As a white-boy out in Lawrenceville I listened to WDAO. Also to WLAC out of Nashville on the skip. That was still a time when if a song got popular in the Black community somebody would make a cover for the stations who still wouldn't play "race" music.

 

[gr8oldies]

If there's one station locally that should have a tribute site, it's the original WDAO.

 

[microbob]

I agree, WDAO was a groundbreaking station in many ways. A tribute site would be great.

 

[KevinFodor]

I totally agree with the suggestion for a WDAO-FM Tribute Site.

We have some WDAO stuff up on the media page of the Dayton Broadcaster's Hall of Fame Website, if you haven't been there in a while...

www.daytonbroadcasthalloffame.com

 

[BobOnTheJob]

Gotta agree...WDAO was un-apologetically Black...no attempt made to appeal to the masses...and that's one thing that makes great radio. I heard them blaring out of many a car radio in Cincinnati about 40 years ago, back when the car owners manuals indicated that FM reception should not be expected beyond 25 miles.

 

[KevinFodor]

Gotta agree...WDAO was un-apologetically Black...no attempt made to appeal to the masses...and that's one thing that makes great radio. I heard them blaring out of many a car radio in Cincinnati about 40 years ago, back when the car owners manuals indicated that FM reception should not be expected beyond 25 miles.

Well, Bob: It's true that WDAO-FM never attempted to hide the fact that they were a black radio station, however, their playlist was often well-spiked with crossover Top 40 songs that appealed to the black community. (For example: The aircheck you can listen to on the Dayton Broadcasters Hall Of Fame website has them playing Foreigner's "I Want To Know What Love Is". They also played Grand Funk's "Some Kind Of Wonderful" just as a couple of examples.) Putting crossover Top 40 songs popular to black listeners into the playlist actually helped to keep the audience from straying to the Top 40 stations to get a "Top 40 fix", so to speak. And, the white teens would tune in, hear Top 40 songs here and there on the station and would say, "I didn't know they played that song"...which also helped bring white teens, who liked the R & B.

BTW: for you Cincinnatians on the boards: WCIN-AM went headlong into this approach when Mike Roberts (of V-103 fame) became Program Director in the late 70's. Mike wanted to keep his black listeners from going back and forth between WCIN and Q-102. So, he added songs such as "What A Fool Believes" by the Doobie Brothers", etc into the WCIN playlist. He took all kinds of grief from the black record tipsheets who accused him of "selling out" and refusing to give that playlist spot "to a deserving black artist". But, at one point during his tenure as PD, WCIN popped a 5.6 share 12 plus in one particular book that I recall. That may have been that station's best rating book ever.

 

[gr8oldies]

During the time between August of 1975 and the debut of WDJX, wouldn't WDAO almost have been the default Top 40? At least for those who were more disco than chainsaw rock. I realize Q102 hit the south suburbs but that left a lot of area uncovered by the hits.

I listened to the WDAO check, it was interesting that they played "Solid" by Ashford and Simpson in 1982. It didn't become a pop hit until 1985.

 

[inquisitor]

During the time between August of 1975 and the debut of WDJX, wouldn't WDAO almost have been the default Top 40? At least for those who were more disco than chainsaw rock. I realize Q102 hit the south suburbs but that left a lot of area uncovered by the hits.

I listened to the WDAO check, it was interesting that they played "Solid" by Ashford and Simpson in 1982. It didn't become a pop hit until 1985.

I used to listen to WVKO back around that time and also noticed that Prince, Gap Band, Midnight Star, etc. songs used to show up on those stations long before they hit the mainstream top-40 stations. Black music was far more listenable to my ears in those days than it is today.

 

[KevinFodor]

During the time between August of 1975 and the debut of WDJX, wouldn't WDAO almost have been the default Top 40? At least for those who were more disco than chainsaw rock. I realize Q102 hit the south suburbs but that left a lot of area uncovered by the hits.

I listened to the WDAO check, it was interesting that they played "Solid" by Ashford and Simpson in 1982. It didn't become a pop hit until 1985.

On FM, you're probably right that WDAO would have become the "default" Top 40 between the time that WTUE flipped to AOR and WDJX debuted as a CHR station.

And, yes...on Ashford and Simpson, it shows you how far ahead they often were on hit product. 'DAO, in its heyday, was a "breakout" station.

 

[alans613]

I remember WDAO playing Midnight Star's "Operator" and Kurtis Blow's "Basketball". WDAO @ 107.7 was an AWESOME station. I was actually about 7 years old when I remember finding them on my old Sanyo boombox.