WLS FM.

[davideduardo]

Re: WLS FM.

David, we may not agree on some things, but I am surprised at your cheap shot of Dick Biondi. That's something I'd expect of a 20 year old pothead on this board, but not you. Very unprofessional comment.

My, aren't we sensitive. I used the Biondi example because it reeks of 60's radio, times past, and the idea that gold based stations need to sound like today was 1964.

If you go to http://www.davidgleason.com/Archive Cleveland/WLS Signatures and Verie.pdf you will see how one teen camped out in the WLS lobby till he got Biondi's signature. I know the pizza song because once upon a time I would turn up the volume when he sang it!

I also recall his calling me when I was OM at KRUX in Phoenix and he was in Myrtle Beach, after the style of radio he did had died and he could not find a major market gig anywhere. There has to be a poignant story there.

He is a living legend, he commands a loyal following, and he's still one hell of a great talent. And.....this 18-49 year old tries to catch his show whenever possible.

Magic Johnson is a living legend. Wally Phillips was a legend. Most DJs known only in a single market and only over a few years are not legends... just as oldies is just a format that barely reaches a few percent of the population.

 

[radioman148]

Re: WLS FM.

>>Magic Johnson is a living legend. Wally Phillips was a legend. Most DJs known only in a single market and only over a few years are not legends... just as oldies is just a format that barely reaches a few percent of the population.>>

First of all "only over a few years" doesn't apply to Biondi. Also, neither does one market as he was quite popular in Southern California in the mid & late 60s. Yeah so he had some down years in the 70s, but tell me what person doesn't have some down years?

You might want to tune in Sunday night May 2nd to hear Dick Biondi's special show celebrating 50 years since he first broadcast in Chicago radio. It will be simulcast on WLS-AM & FM & the internet. You might learn that more than a few people love the guy.
If he's not as popular as Tiger Woods, or doesn't sell to that age group it doesn't mean he's irrelevant.
You could do a lot worse in radio than what Dick Biondi has achieved.

 

[davideduardo]

Re: WLS FM.

First of all "only over a few years" doesn't apply to Biondi. Also, neither does one market as he was quite popular in Southern California in the mid & late 60s. Yeah so he had some down years in the 70s, but tell me what person doesn't have some down years?

The real succes he had was the relatively short stint on WLS. In the mid and late 60's, the LA Top 40 scene was owned by KHJ... not KRLA. And until the return to Chicago decades later, where he appeals to much the same audience as he did in the early 60's.

All I am saying is that calling every local Top 40 jock a "legend" is somewhere between exaggeration and hyperbole.

You might want to tune in Sunday night May 2nd to hear Dick Biondi's special show celebrating 50 years since he first broadcast in Chicago radio. It will be simulcast on WLS-AM & FM & the internet. You might learn that more than a few people love...

You missed the whole point of the link I posted. I was among his fans and regular listeners... but I can put the whole thing in perspective.

 

[cspotrun]

Re: WLS FM.

DAVID EDUARDO DISCLAIMER...........
if you haven't noticedhe HATES The Classic Hits/Oldies Format(and probably YOU too, if you enjoy it)..
chances are he works in an AD agency and has a small desk in a cubicle without a window, he crunches demographic numbers ALL DAY... that's what's wrong with him. life is short David, enjoy! THE GREATEST HITS OF ALL TIME!
and leave the people who have a passion for it alone.

 

[davideduardo]

Re: WLS FM.

DAVID EDUARDO DISCLAIMER...........
if you haven't noticedhe HATES The Classic Hits/Oldies Format(and probably YOU too, if you enjoy it)..

How amusing. Except for the fact I have worked with a gold format in a bunch of major markets for over a decade, that's a really well thought out statement. Not.

What I have pointed out is that oldies formats that play 50's and early 60's to excess are sales albatrosses... because there are essentially no agency dollars for 55+ audiences. That is neither hate nor love... it is reality.

chances are he works in an AD agency and has a small desk in a cubicle without a window, he crunches demographic numbers ALL DAY... that's what's wrong with him.

Another brilliantly wrong statement. Try clicking the link, huh?

life is short David, enjoy! THE GREATEST HITS OF ALL TIME!

I gather that you are referring to the Top 40 hits of the 50's and 60's? Of course, there are about 7 billion people to whom those songs are not the greatest hits of all time...

and leave the people who have a passion for it alone.

You see, I have no issue for those who enjoy listening to the music. I have trouble with people who think that the music and the format are bigger than what they are in reality.

 

[BRNout]

Re: WLS FM.

David, I'll agree that not every jock with a long career is a 'living legend' - though almost all of them HAVE to be good to last that long (or related to the owner). Magic Johnson? Yeah, I guess. Wally Phillips? See, I don't even know who that is. However, Dick Biondi does meet the definition of 'living legend'. At least as far as this business is concerned. After all these years, he's still full of energy, wit and remains fun to listen to. A throwback to earlier days when you actually needed to have talent to be on the air (as opposed to liner card reading skills).

Yeah, you can imply that I was "sensitive" to your remark - but that's not really the case. A better word was 'disgusted' because I know that you know better than that. The cheap shot wasn't necessary and it didn't add to the conversation.

Your timing is particularly interesting, given the 50th anniversary broadcast/celebration for Dick that will be on WLS AM and FM Sunday night. Hey, I'm not mad - but likewise I couldn't let you get away with poking fun at Dick Biondi.

 

[radioman148]

Re: WLS FM.

>>You missed the whole point of the link I posted. I was among his fans and regular listeners... but I can put the whole thing in perspective.>>

I noticed that you were a fan of his in 1960, but apparently in 2010 you feel differently.
If you've ever attended Biondi's record hops, which he still hosts regularly you'd find people of all ages having a wonderful time. You'd be amazed how many high school & college kids show up as well as us "old folks".

Dick Biondi is a member of the Rock & Roll HOF (pioneer DJs) and the Radio HOF and still on the air 5 days a week. If he doesn't mainly appeal to your coveted young demos that doesn't mean he should shrivel up and head for Sun City. On the contrary, we could all learn something from the energy and obvious enthusiasm he still has.

 

[cyberdad]

Re: WLS FM.

I'm a fan of Biondi and I'm a fan of the first decade of the rock era. I was one of the kids with the transistor radio under the pillow listening to Biondi every night. I'm delighted to hear that WLS is doing the right thing and honoring him this weekend. I think he's well deserving of his place in the HOF.

But I also completely agree that formats heavily based on music from the 50s and early 60s is no longer viable for attracting a mass audience in the demos that 99% of media buyers are looking for. Even Biondi himself hasn't used the "screamer" approach for over 40 years. Aside from occasionally breaking into a few bars of "On Top of a Pizza" or bringing back a couple of forgotten 45s, most of what Biondi does these days is pretty much in line with the rest of the WLS-FM format. That is to say a contemporary presentation of a music mix who's "sweet spot" is late 60s and 70s.

 

[radioman148]

Re: WLS FM.

I'm a fan of Biondi and I'm a fan of the first decade of the rock era. I was one of the kids with the transistor radio under the pillow listening to Biondi every night. I'm delighted to hear that WLS is doing the right thing and honoring him this weekend. I think he's well deserving of his place in the HOF.

But I also completely agree that formats heavily based on music from the 50s and early 60s is no longer viable for attracting a mass audience in the demos that 99% of media buyers are looking for. Even Biondi himself hasn't used the "screamer" approach for over 40 years. Aside from occasionally breaking into a few bars of "On Top of a Pizza" or bringing back a couple of forgotten 45s, most of what Biondi does these days is pretty much in line with the rest of the WLS-FM format. That is to say a contemporary presentation of a music mix who's "sweet spot" is late 60s and 70s.

Well said Cyberdad. I have no problem with an adjustment in music to fit what the current audience wants.
Any radio station should do what's necessary to please the audience.
It is obvious that Oldies stations do not bring in the money that the younger demos do, but that doesn't mean there isn't a place for them.
In fact if you listen to Biondi on Friday nights when he plays only requests you'll find an amazing amount of 50s & 60s songs that the listeners request.

 

[davideduardo]

Re: WLS FM.

In fact if you listen to Biondi on Friday nights when he plays only requests you'll find an amazing amount of 50s & 60s songs that the listeners request.

Phone calls are practically never a good indication of what the bulk of the audience wants or likes.

 

[scanman1]

Re: WLS FM.

Check out what they're spotlighting musically this weekend: All sixties songs! Nice they still acknowledge the best decade of music ever (at least IMO)!

 

[cspotrun]

Re: WLS FM.

DAVID EDUARDO DISCLAIMER...........
if you haven't noticedhe HATES The Classic Hits/Oldies Format(and probably YOU too, if you enjoy it)..

How amusing. Except for the fact I have worked with a gold format in a bunch of major markets for over a decade, that's a really well thought out statement. Not.

OK are you trying to tell me you are some kind of Consultant?WARNING!!! if this guy tries to lay a hand on your Classic Hits station RUN!!!!!!! he has nothing but contempt for it.

life is short David, enjoy! THE GREATEST HITS OF ALL TIME!

i gather that you are referring to the Top 40 hits of the 50's and 60's? Of course, there are about 7 billion people to whom those songs are not the greatest hits of all time...

and for the MAJORITY of us there is a place that recognizes and celebrates the music of the 50's 60's (you say are NOT the Greatest Hits of all time) its called "The Rock & Roll Hall of Fame"-visited by people of ALL AGES the world over.
and enjoyed by millions on radio, much to your chagrin i suppose.

I have no issue for those who enjoy listening to the music. I have trouble with people who think that the music and the format are bigger than what they are in reality.

i don't see anyone on this thread doing that, they just have a passion for the music and take exception to your constant slamming of the music and the format.
give it a rest, your posts are like a broken record.

 

[cspotrun]

Re: WLS FM.

In fact if you listen to Biondi on Friday nights when he plays only requests you'll find an amazing amount of 50s & 60s songs that the listeners request.

Phone calls are practically never a good indication of what the bulk of the audience wants or likes.

well, if they're calling they appear to be LISTENING! i could be crazy but that indicates they LIKE IT! thats a better sign than getting NO calls isn't it? example... if your radio station's transmitter blows up and NOBODY calls in to ask what happened, where are you its a pretty good indication that no on is listening....

how long would a "Talk Show" last on AM radio without calls?

 

[davideduardo]

Re: WLS FM.

well, if they're calling they appear to be LISTENING! i could be crazy but that indicates they LIKE IT!

People who have the time to call a music station represent only a tiny fraction of the audience, and one that is not representative at that.

thats a better sign than getting NO calls isn't it?

No, not necessarily. One of my most successful stations hardly got any phone calls during its first months on the air... we were a little worried between sign-on and the first ratings release, because the phone just did not ring.

After we got the numbers, we realized that all the songs and the rotations and the talent was on target to such an extent that nobody felt the need to call.

example... if your radio station's transmitter blows up and NOBODY calls in to ask what happened, where are you its a pretty good indication that no on is listening....

I've been in the studio of a station in LA that was totally #1 when it lost airtime (as rare as that was) and nobody called. Protecting someone else's business is not a natural instinct or reaction.

how long would a "Talk Show" last on AM radio without calls?

In case you have not noticed, the biggest opinion based shows (as opposed to Q&A shows like Clark Howard) can go days without a single call. And when calls are used, it may take 10 an hour to sustain a station or show with hundreds of thousands of cumers if not more. Like requests ("If you call and ask for the song I was going to play anyway, I will take the request") calls can be selected or even staged to get a subject rolling... this is show business. Oh, and the people who are killed on the CSI shows are not really killed, either...

 

[davideduardo]

Re: WLS FM.

I have no issue for those who enjoy listening to the music. I have trouble with people who think that the music and the format are bigger than what they are in reality.

i don't see anyone on this thread doing that, they just have a passion for the music and take exception to your constant slamming of the music and the format.

Most folks who wish there was more 50's and early 60's music on the radio respond to the economic and demographic reality when explained. You obviously believe that showing what is reality and why it is real is somehow a "slam."

give it a rest, your posts are like a broken record.

As I said, I am involved and have been involved in a bunch of classic hits stations for over a decade... and we saw reality and now play less than 30 60's titles out of 1,100 total...

 

[cyberdad]

Re: WLS FM.

Phone calls are practically never a good indication of what the bulk of the audience wants or likes.

Great point. Back in the stone age when I pulled an air shift, I noticed that most callers wanted stuff they could never hear on the radio....with damned good reason!

IMHO there are still a few....albeit very few...exceptions when it comes to phone requests. And one thing those exceptions would have in common is that they typically reflect instances where a station breaks format. In the case of Friday nights on WLS-FM, the phone calls fit what's effectively specialty programming.

As I've said elsewhere previously, I'm not one of those who knocks or bemoans today's reality.

"First generation top 40" is more widely available now than ever. You can access it anywhere, anytime, and with better audio quality than you usually got "back in the day". Same goes for folk, jazz, standards, blues, classical, bluegrass, swing, and plenty of other genres. Both as a businessman and as a consumer of media and entertainment, the current alignment of "what's where" (and why) makes perfect sense to me.

 

[KevinFodor]

Re: WLS FM.

Phone calls are practically never a good indication of what the bulk of the audience wants or likes.

Great point. Back in the stone age when I pulled an air shift, I noticed that most callers wanted stuff they could never hear on the radio....with damned good reason!

IMHO there are still a few....albeit very few...exceptions when it comes to phone requests. And one thing those exceptions would have in common is that they typically reflect instances where a station breaks format. In the case of Friday nights on WLS-FM, the phone calls fit what's effectively specialty programming.

As I've said elsewhere previously, I'm not one of those who knocks or bemoans today's reality.

"First generation top 40" is more widely available now than ever. You can access it anywhere, anytime, and with better audio quality than you usually got "back in the day". Same goes for folk, jazz, standards, blues, classical, bluegrass, swing, and plenty of other genres. Both as a businessman and as a consumer of media and entertainment, the current alignment of "what's where" (and why) makes perfect sense to me.

And none of those channels make any money at all.

The "former" oldies format will now be relegated to sat channels, LP-FM's, non-comms. They do not make money for commercial radio. That's the bottom line. I don't care how many 60 year olds listen. They won't make money for a commercial channel. That's a fact of life. They're carried on satellite because it's another choice people will listen to. But the demos do not appeal to the commercial advertisers these days. I disagree with these people, but that's the way it is. Radio has tried, but it cannot overcome the objections of the advertisers.

Stop blaming radio for being a business. And support your local non-comm, PBS, LP-FM or whatever, because they will attempt to appeal to your tastes.

And, if you do have an oldies/classic hits channel on radio in your area and you like it...support it! Don't assume it will always be there...

 

[BRNout]

Re: WLS FM.

But I also completely agree that formats heavily based on music from the 50s and early 60s is no longer viable for attracting a mass audience in the demos that 99% of media buyers are looking for. Even Biondi himself hasn't used the "screamer" approach for over 40 years. Aside from occasionally breaking into a few bars of "On Top of a Pizza" or bringing back a couple of forgotten 45s, most of what Biondi does these days is pretty much in line with the rest of the WLS-FM format. That is to say a contemporary presentation of a music mix who's "sweet spot" is late 60s and 70s.

In general, I agree with this as well. The occasional ("good") 50s or pre-1964 tune is fine, as is featuring some of them on a specialty show. However, as a general rule, they are not going to attract a mass audience. On the other hand, music from the 1964-1979 period has a great following - and that following isn't limited to those who were teenagers during that period. Thanks to movies, TV shows and ads and the general immersion of the public with that music, it still enjoys a wide following and is - at worst - considered inoffensive.

Where I caution a station like WLS-FM or WCBS-FM (for that matter) is delving too much into the 80s. Yes, there are a few songs here and there which go with the format. However, given the splintering of musical styles which caused wider gaps between genres by the 1980s, it's not viable for 'oldies' stations to simply move into the 80s in the same way that they moved into the 70s a decade or more ago. The blend just isn't there.

And, in this particular case, WLS-FM would run into heavy competition with others by adopting a 'classic hits' stance; something it doesn't worry about right now. As an aside, I find a lot of 'classic hits' stations to be VERY boring. Laid back liner readers, no jingles, and a relatively short playlist of bland, "safe", generally rock-based big hits. Basically a neutered oldies station. They feature a lot of songs that are burned to a crisp. In certain cities, these stations get decent ratings. However, I find that those cities are usually places where the format has the entire genre of pre-1975 'oldies-ish' music to itself.

I truly hope that WLS-FM does not go this route. In this way, we can thank WDRV because they cover the 'classic hits' territory; but the way Bonneville has formatted the station with a classic AOR lean is brilliant and makes it a far better station than the garden variety 'classic hits' station as well.

 

[cyberdad]

Re: WLS FM.

the demos do not appeal to the commercial advertisers these days. I disagree with these people, but that's the way it is.  Radio has tried, but it cannot overcome the objections of the advertisers.

Stop blaming radio for being a business.  And support your local non-comm, PBS, LP-FM or whatever, because they will attempt to appeal to your tastes.

And, if you do have an oldies/classic hits channel on radio in your area and you like it...support it!  Don't assume it will always be there...

Bingo! 

Exactly.

I never said I agree with the logic used by media buyers in this instance. You can argue with them until the cows come home. And you may even be right.

But it's their nickel. At the end of the day, as a businessman, I have to be where the spend is.  Especially if I have to answer to stockholders.

And absolutely....if what you like happens to outside what "mainstream" terrestial broadcasters are doing, by all means do what you can support it.  In addition to what's already been mentioned, I'll add streaming audio.  There's some very well-executed great stuff available online...which is also now becoming more and more portable.

 

[davideduardo]

Re: WLS FM.

I never said I agree with the logic used by media buyers in this instance. You can argue with them until the cows come home. And you may even be right.

And even arguing with buyers is futile... they have instructions from much higher up, generally the client, which they can't change.