(Grabs his bag of popcorn)
This is going to be interesting....
This is going to be interesting....
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JOCKSTAR said:
Hal Raymond stopped giving a flip about WSBA when he moved over to WOYK,
where he resumed his radio show until his retirement.
Wait, I worked with Curt for about two days, producing his new (2001) show on 1250.
How long did that show last?
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AllHart
Guest
??? Try not getting paid for about 60 days and tell me what action you would take. In the legal arena it's called "anticipitory repudiation." Someone needs to consult an attorney to learn some things.
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AllHart
Guest
AllHart said:
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AllHart
Guest
AllHart said:
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AllHart
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AllHart said:
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JOCKSTAR
Guest
A murderer is still a murderer no matter when it happned. Once ratings are killed, that's it. You don't fire a ratings killer....and gee wiz, suddenly the next day the ratings go up. It's takes a long, long time (especially in AM radio) to bring ratings back up once major damage has been done.
JOCKSTAR said:
First of all, you have a lot of time on your hands to go digging up the books from back in 2000 - that is, unless you have those books available to you where you work. That probably means your one of the guys running the board over at WOYK, and since you only do an hour of your own original programming the entire week, you guys have a LOT of time on your hands.
Next, I'm not sure what numbers your looking at, but I seem to remember looking at the books when I was doing a brief (and admittedly horrible) stint on radio back in the late 90s. If I remember correctly, Curt (and at time, Gary) were #1 in the male 35-54 demographic, which is the target demographic for a sports radio program. Also, Curt has been awarded countless awards for his play-by-play work. Name one other sports radio broadcaster who currently or within the last 10 year has worked in the Central PA market with a resume that even comes remotely close to Curt's. Wait...I'll answer that one for you - there aren't any!
JOCKSTAR said:
Curt has been gone from WSBA for at least four years. Ralph has been gone even longer. The station's ratings were somewhat respectable when they left. Now, after totally dumping the somewhat balanced format they had in favor of "all-politics, all-the-time", the station is wondering why nobody wants to listen anymore. Oh, I forgot about that fantastic idea of replacing Curt's show at 3:00PM with the energetic and magnetic Clark Howard's penny-pincher program.
As most people know, it wasn't Curt's ratings that did in his show; it was the inability of the sales staff to sell advertising and the absolute lack of marketing that the station did surrounding most of it's local programming. Shortly after Curt left and Gary went to mornings (for a political show, BTW), the station put up a big billboard on RT. 30 with Gary's picture an those of the morning team. Since then, have you really seem any real marketing from WSBA (under the old Susquehanna Broadcasting regime)? Without any cross promotion, any on-site appearances (they were almost non-existent in the last two years of Sports Talk), and a sales staff that only wanted to sell network-based, politically-oriented programming, the show wasn't going to make it regardless of what the ratings were.
Was Ralph's show bad - yeah. He was a nice guy, but it wasn't a great show. But follow Ralph Lockwood up with Dr. Joy Brown (remember her?), and your basically hoping that Rush Limbaugh and Sports Talk are going to carry the station - and they did for many years.
JOCKSTAR said:
First of all, you don't fill four hours of broadcast time of a caller oriented show if you have a small following. Curt had a small number of callers who called in on a daily basis - but that's a good thing for a show like that. The majority of his callers on any given show were first-time and infrequent callers, people who frequently listen but only call when very motivated to do so. Given a show of that length, if you have a small audience, you're screwed.
Curt's show had a very nice mix of regular callers who could give the show a life of it's own beyond the topic of the day, and the rest of his callers who were commenting on whatever that day's topics were. It was a favorite show of listeners all over Central PA and Northern Maryland, and it was a well respected show by people in media relations at professional sports organizations and colleges. You don't spend 15 years on the air, the last 8 to 10 of them on during afternoon drive, if your show isn't carrying a good number on a station with one of the biggest signals in the market - it just doesn't happen.
Lastly, before you criticize the idea of having Curt Hart call games for the Revolution (still the only obvious choice), bring an alternative candidate and throw the name out there.
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AllHart
Guest
TheOrangeman said:
A murderer is still a murderer whenever it happened? Lighten up, we're talking radio here, not O.J.'s trial.
Curt and Ralph served WSBA well for many years. Want to discuss a lack of marketing for the once Mighty 910? Yeah, that's probably somewhat fair. But the York community is far better today because of WSBA's committment to the community. Ask any community organization who has worked with the station. And during their time at WSBA, both Curt and Ralph did plenty for the York community.
Curt and Ralph served WSBA well for many years. Want to discuss a lack of marketing for the once Mighty 910? Yeah, that's probably somewhat fair. But the York community is far better today because of WSBA's committment to the community. Ask any community organization who has worked with the station. And during their time at WSBA, both Curt and Ralph did plenty for the York community.
AllHart said:
Alright, so it lasted two months. Seems like you've been having difficulty replying.
For a simple reply: If you want to quote something, in your reply, start your reply
under the last "[/quote]" and then click the Preview button to see if it looks good.
If you have javascript running in your browser (you probably do), scroll up to see
the preview near the top of the page. If it's cool, click the Post button.
BTW, all quoted text will appear in a violet box.
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JOCKSTAR
Guest
Jed Donahue and anyone who ever did any Hershey Bears play-by-play are better on their worst days than Curt Hart was at any time in his so-called professional life. People who think Curt is a god also will be saying 10 years from now that O-J wasn't such a bad guy.
JOCKSTAR said:
Jed Donahue? Are you serious? I don't think anyone has listened to him stutter all the way through a broadcast in 10 years. Now there's a guy who's got to have blackmail material on someone at Clear Channel, since he's been able to keep his job all these years!
Just the fact that you even mentioned his name tells me that you know nothing about the York market, and you're just out here pushing an agenda for a buddy (or maybe this is Jed himself - hmmm). WTKT (1460) AM doesn't even register a number in the York market, and it barely registers a number (0.8) in the Harrisburg market. His local affiliate in York on his so-called, state-wide network, WQXA-AM - the same station Curt apparently left after they wouldn't/couldn't pay him (assuming the story is true) - doesn't even register a number IN YORK - the city they broadcast from!!!!! WIOO-AM has a better number in York!!!!! Yep, Jed's doing a great job pulling up that station's numbers, isn't he?
I stand by the statement I made earlier. Curt's resume dwarfs that of everybody else I've heard so far. He's the former host of a NATIONALLY syndicated sports show (ACC Conference Call on the Divison 1 Sports Radio Network), he's been on the air in Top 25 markets around the country, and has the reccomendations of college and professional broadcasters and administrators from around the country. Most of all - and this is most important - he knows the sport of Baseball better than anyone else out there.
Give it a rest. The real question isn't whether they'll hire Curt Hart - if the don't at least offer him the position, they're nuts. The better question is what are they willing to pay a broadcaster for a minor-leage play-by-play gig? Also, what will the broadcasts sound like? Are they willing to spend the money necessary to put on a broadcase that is the production equivalent of the Orioles broadcasts that WSBA dumped in favor of the Revolution?
If the answer to question 1 is "not much", the answer to question 2 is "not good", and the answer to question 3 is "no", then this could be the biggest programming mistake WSBA has ever made!
Stay tuned...
Give them a break. They just hired the field staff....NOW they must get players. A broadcast team will come soon I'm sure. Now here's the $25,000 question. How would you feel with a male/female broadcast team? Food for thought
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caj012885
Guest
here are some interesting possibilities to think about:
1) with the heavy presence of former Orioles in the coaching staff(due to Keystone's affiliations), and the potential sale and possible relocation of the Harrisburg Senators, could AA ball be just around the corner for York.
2)with all the talk about bringing Curt Hart back, how about teaming him back up with Gary Sutton (for color commentary). Even with his daily morning show, Gary is still a sports fan at heart.
Just a couple of interesting scenarios to ponder!!
1) with the heavy presence of former Orioles in the coaching staff(due to Keystone's affiliations), and the potential sale and possible relocation of the Harrisburg Senators, could AA ball be just around the corner for York.
2)with all the talk about bringing Curt Hart back, how about teaming him back up with Gary Sutton (for color commentary). Even with his daily morning show, Gary is still a sports fan at heart.
Just a couple of interesting scenarios to ponder!!
real_radioguy said:
I guess it really depends who the woman is and what her qualifications are. I personally can't think of anyone in who is currently in the Central PA market, or who has been in the past, that has both the baseball knowledge and the personality to do play-by-play or color. That doesn't mean that such a woman isn't out there - I just can't think of anyone currently or previously in the York radio market.
The only woman I can think of anywhere within 100 miles of York is Anita Marks down in Baltimore, but her area of expertise is football, not baseball. Besides, there are enough people complaining about her in Baltimore as it is because she tends to talk more about national sports than local Baltimore sports, and Baltimorians tend to have a local sports chip on their shoulder. I haven't looked at her numbers recently, but my guess is that she's neither hurting or helping WJFK all that much. She's competent as a sports talk host, but I have no idea what she would sound like doing play-by-play for baseball, or even what knowledge she has of the game. Like I said, she was the QB for the Miami Fury (and, yes, I know she also posed in Playboy), not a baseball player.
I guess someone with an extensive softball background could possibly step in. It's not totally out of the realm of possibilities.
The bigger question...in very conservative Central PA, how would people react to having a woman as part of a baseball play-by-play team. You would definitely need someone with extensive play-by-play experience along side initially, just to show her the ropes with the ins-and-outs of the broadcast. Of course, unless both team members are experienced in radio, you'll have to do that with a male broadcast partner as well - that's not a male/female thing, but rather an experience thing.
That is an interesting can of worms you've opened up. It would definitly raise interest, at least initially. If she sucked, though, it really wouldn't last all that long. There would definitely be a lot of pressure on her initially.
caj012885 said:
I know that was the initial idea, and the Orioles want a team close to home. They really wanted York to have one of their minor league affiliates initially. It was only after the Harrisburg Mayor Reed (not a bad guy, but really off-base on this one) fought it that the Orioles decided to pass on the idea. However, AAA might be a more likely scenario, with the AAA affiliate basically being kicked out of Rochester and currently located in Ottawa.
caj012885 said:
I don't know if Gary's love of sports extends to baseball. He's a basketball guy, and that's what made the Curt/Gary thing work so well for basketball play-by-play.
Once again, though, it comes down to what the team and the station are willing to pay. It would make perfect sense to bring Curt's show back to WSBA in the afternoons - how much Sean Hannity (and other political talk) does one person really need to listen to? Despite losing JOCKSTAR as a listener (I'm sure they'll be crushed), it would break up the monotony of "Democrats suck" from Noon to 9:00PM (I'm conservative and even I get tired of it quickly). If the station is using the Revolution as a way of reintroducing substantial local sports programming back into their lineup, and if they really want to build a strong local programming lineup, then they'll make the investment and bring in someone who can do the Revolution games and other play-by-play action of local sports (like they did for so many years successfully), and bring back a local sports talk show.
However, if they're just looking for a token sports presence in their lineup, then I'm afraid this is going to be a total disaster. Just doing baseball and nothing else doesn't make any sense - there's nothing there to build up the baseball broadcasts.
Who knows - maybe WSBA will go back to being a complete radio station again!
First things first, WSBA probably won't be hiring the play-by-play person directly. In Lancaster, the Barnstormers hired Dave Collins to call the games--he doesn't work for WLPA. Granted, WLPA wasn't carrying Barnstormer games from the outset, but since the same ownership group own's both teams, I would guess that a similar scenario is in order.
Second, it'll be a one person both. It's minor league baseball, not the majors so they aren't going to pay multiple broadcasters. Dave Collins does a pretty good job flying solo for Lancaster and they mix it up from time to time by bringing members of the upper management in to talk about the team, but for the most part, it is Dave and Dave alone. The key thing to remember about independing league baseball is that it is about the money and the game presentation at the ballpark, not the game itself. Keystone Baseball is not going to pay two broadcasters to call their games--the only logical scenario I can see that would result in a play-by-play and color commentary tandem would be Keystone paying the play-by-play person, and Cumulus/WSBA saying "Hey, we'd really like to have someone do color. Put in the booth and we'll pay his salary." Could it happen? Absolutely. Is it likely? I wouldn't bet on it...and I've made some pretty bad bets.
Third to offer answers to, I think it was Orangeman's, last two questions: They won't put a lot of money into the broadcast but it appears, at least on paper, that it will be wider in scope than the Barnstormers, since I believe I read that they're doing a 30-minute pregrame show (WLPA/Barnstormers do 15). It also seems WSBA is going to take a much more active role in the broadcast of Revolution games than WSBA has taken in Barnstormers games. The broadcast should be good, depending on who they bring in to call the games. And I personally think that a color commentator would take away from the broadcast. This is unaffiliated, minor league ball--analysis is just fluff. Any analysis for games like these should be simple and to the point and play second-fiddle to the actual call.
And all the talk about AA ball in York is premature. The Revolution haven't played a game in York yet and won't until midway through their season--nobody has anyway of knowing for sure how people are going to respond to this team when game time finally rolls around. Lancaster has responded very well and would likely get a shot at a minor league club before York does.
Second, it'll be a one person both. It's minor league baseball, not the majors so they aren't going to pay multiple broadcasters. Dave Collins does a pretty good job flying solo for Lancaster and they mix it up from time to time by bringing members of the upper management in to talk about the team, but for the most part, it is Dave and Dave alone. The key thing to remember about independing league baseball is that it is about the money and the game presentation at the ballpark, not the game itself. Keystone Baseball is not going to pay two broadcasters to call their games--the only logical scenario I can see that would result in a play-by-play and color commentary tandem would be Keystone paying the play-by-play person, and Cumulus/WSBA saying "Hey, we'd really like to have someone do color. Put in the booth and we'll pay his salary." Could it happen? Absolutely. Is it likely? I wouldn't bet on it...and I've made some pretty bad bets.
Third to offer answers to, I think it was Orangeman's, last two questions: They won't put a lot of money into the broadcast but it appears, at least on paper, that it will be wider in scope than the Barnstormers, since I believe I read that they're doing a 30-minute pregrame show (WLPA/Barnstormers do 15). It also seems WSBA is going to take a much more active role in the broadcast of Revolution games than WSBA has taken in Barnstormers games. The broadcast should be good, depending on who they bring in to call the games. And I personally think that a color commentator would take away from the broadcast. This is unaffiliated, minor league ball--analysis is just fluff. Any analysis for games like these should be simple and to the point and play second-fiddle to the actual call.
And all the talk about AA ball in York is premature. The Revolution haven't played a game in York yet and won't until midway through their season--nobody has anyway of knowing for sure how people are going to respond to this team when game time finally rolls around. Lancaster has responded very well and would likely get a shot at a minor league club before York does.
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