wtf 92.3 NOW!!!

[mikesingh]

An older song, but right now, NOW is playing Alice Deejay's 'Better Off Alone'. Either they're really taking the dance-leaning approach, or it's because their playlist opens up nicely on their Commercial-Free Mondays.

A nice surprise either way.

 

[TonySantiago]

Breaking it down.....

Auto-tune is a terrible thing. Without digressing too far into how the "boyz n the hood" soundtrack warned us how rap would be commandered and sanitized for suburban consumption, I will say I listened to the video and thought that Flo Rida’s bars were adequate, but that the rest was too digital. Music aside, the topic is about spending $500 on Kettle One. This is not Hot 97 music. Its Z-100 music. Which segues into the next topic nicely.

I hate autotune as well. But it's not about what you or I detest, rather than what radio and music sells. And if people are buying into it, then there ya go.

TONY: But, and lets add R&B guys like Akon, Ne-Yo into this since Hot 97/Power 105.1 DOES play them, you are seeing this "hybrid" form happening.

BROOKLYN: And ratings have declined since these artists crept into the playlist.

On the Hot 97/Power 105 side, perhaps. Not on the 92.3 Now/Z-100 side.

TONY: Hip-hop has taken a hard hit financially so some of these artists ARE doing dancy tracks and in the process garnering a new audience.


BROOKLYN: Or is it more a case of hip-hop taking a hard hit because artists are doing dancy tracks? Koch records, which puts out Gansta rap, is doing fine.

Getting back to the meat of this post, there is a gigantic format hole in New York City, one bigger than rock, one bigger than country, it is called Hip-Hop. The psycographics support it. Plus Hot 97 has burned up its brand equity, and Power 105 never really had any to start. Neither station plays what anyone over 25 would call hip-hop anymore. Instant differentiation. Now should go full time urban. They already have the competencies in house. Seems like a total slam dunk.

There IS NO gigantic hole for hip-hop in NYC! Are you kidding me? You have TWO stations that do your format. And actually let's throw in 'BLS into this....THREE URBAN STATIONS! Whatever you may think about them as a core fan of your music you STILL have two stations! Don't make the same mistake dance fans have made in regards to being critical towards your music and hating on others. A fourth station with a similar format would OVER SATURATE the marketplace because you then WEAKEN the brand. Best example of that came about when 'KTU and Mix 102.7 ('NEW) were both doing the classic dance format. Both stations burned itself off as the ratings became lower on BOTH angles. 'KTU went rhythmic A/C on a current side while Mix 102.7 changed calls and became Fresh 102.7. If NOW, went urban, everything would DROP.

Just as I am a core fan of dance music, you are core with hip-hop. I can respect that wholeheartedly. BUT, and let's talk this from a core point of view...there are certain dance tracks where I wonder, WHY? Just as I am sure you hear certain hip-hop tracks and wonder...WHY? The bigger picture is, as long as the stations make MONEY through ad billings, you may not like everything a radio station does (a radio station can't please everyone) but at least YOU GOT SOMETHING!

And on one note...forget those $500 drinks! lol

 

[andone]

So here's where the commotion is 8)

but the reality is a lot of the hip-hop/R&B guys are heading OVER to dance

Really?

Lets start with a west coast gangsta example: have three members of NWA for examples of hip-hop guys put out dance singles? Ice Cube - no. Dr Dre - nope. MC Ren - uh-uh.

While, I don’t agree with the characterization of “hip-hop guys (going) OVER to dance” because rappers have always done dance music, here are your West Coast examples, including some “gangstas”:

World Class Wreckin Cru – “Surgery” (1984) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CK99AKnu3AU

Egyptian Lover – “Egypt” (1984) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjFs9CPGhts

World Class Wreckin Cru – “Juice” (1985) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gh0zspf3gU

LA Dream Team – “Dream Team Is In The House” (1985) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VF5ADzXdIjE

J.J. Fad – “Supersonic” (1988) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3nPLoODtGU

N.W.A. – “Something To Dance To” (1988) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7syRNvn4kF4

(Dr. Dre was part of WCWC; Ice Cube part of NWA)

The members of Black Eyed Peas and LMFAO grew up in LA so it’s not surprising that they have revived these sounds.

Plus, Snoop Dogg’s “Sexual Eruption” also harkens back to the 80s sound. Saying the lyrical content makes it “not dance” is like saying that Marvin Gaye’s “What’s Going On” is not soul/R&B because he wasn’t singing about love or sex.

Auto-tune is a terrible thing. Without digressing too far into how the "boyz n the hood" soundtrack warned us how rap would be commandered and sanitized for suburban consumption

The irony is that it was the later gangsta rap that was more popular in suburbia (and nationally) than the “party & girls” LA rap of the early to mid 80s. Imagine that.

Plus I don’t see why you associate auto-tune with rap being “commandeered and sanitized” when as you can see by the examples above, auto-tune was common in early rap. Also Zapp and George Clinton were popular among rappers. The use of auto-tune is yet more retro-80s phenomena. It’ll likely fade away like it did in the 90s. Seasons change.

 

[Brooklyndon]

I gave those songs a listen. They sounded really dusty. Today's electro is sterile. No dust. Just clean rooms. Which is why dance as a lifestyle will never appeal to people who listen to rap.

People switch from being into dance to being into rap, not the other way around.

 

[Martin Mac]

I gave those songs a listen. They sounded really dusty. Today's electro is sterile. No dust. Just clean rooms. Which is why dance as a lifestyle will never appeal to people who listen to rap.

People switch from being into dance to being into rap, not the other way around.

I wouldn't entirely agree with the statement in the bold, I mean look at Usher's record, thats dance-influenced all the way around, and it hit number one on the Urban radio charts. If it had the potential to do that on Urban radio, then that means rap fans can definitely change into dance fans. (However, I do feel where your coming from, some people on this board come off as if Dance had a chance to be exposed to everyone, that everyone and their mom would love it. Thats definitely not true)

Im into dance now, and I was raised on rap. I grew up in the 90s and my childhood was filled with B.I.G, Tupac, Jay-Z, Outkast, Lil Kim, Missy Elliot, Snoop Dogg, Dr. Dre, N.W.A (to some extent), and all of the other rap artists popular in the 90s. And not just the hit records these artists made that crossed over to Rhythmic and Top 40 radio, no, I mean I grew up off of their complete albums. I love rap, and always will, if I had a choice, I would choose rap, but nowadays, I really really like dance music.

However, my pre-teen/teenage days will always be remembered as being bombarded with 50 Cent, Ludacris, T-Pain, Nelly, Chingy, Ja Rule, Jay-Z, Kanye West, etc. So because Im younger and Top 40/Rhythmic/Urban as a whole is all showing electronica influences nowadays, thats probably a big reason why I like Dance nowadays.

Let me make it clear though, I dont like hardcore fist-pumping dance tracks such as "Cascada - Everytime We Touch/DJ Sammy - Heaven", I like dance tracks like David Guetta - No Getting Over You/LMFAO - Shots/Usher - OMG.

 

[Brooklyndon]

Usher never was a rapper.

Your comment, that tastes change and Hot 97 and Power 105 are just catering to those changes, is false.  Were it true, then their rating would be stable from '00 onward. But they aren't.
I will concede this, Z-100 plays alot less Hip-Hop than it did in 2000, and their ratings are up.  So perhaps alot of the females who were into rap have drifted into this updated form of electro (which, by the way, is highly derived from Daft Punk's Discovery, now almost a decade old). 

Furthermore, this people five years younger than me listen to 50-Cent, Kanye West, Little Wayne, Little John, Dipset, Game, and Twista and Fat Joe, and never heard any 90s rap is garbage, because when I would listen to rap in the 90s I'd hear the stuff from 5 years before me: Tribe Called Quest, Naughty by Nature, De La Soul, etc.  The 18-34 years olds today know what good rap sounds like, and they know that 36 mafia is telling us to do exactly what the man wants us to do when they  rap  about getting drunk on Kettle One in some club in some flyover city.

Getting back to corporate strategy for NOW:

Goal  - It is unclear what the station’s goal is.  It wants to beat Z-100, but in what demo?  Many stations beat Z-100, in their specific target demos.  I cannot, for the life of me, figure out what the Now target demo is.

Strategy - Clearly their strategy is to pull listeners away from Z-100, hence the obsession with Z-100.  But a year in, has it worked?  Only executives with access to specific demographic details know the answer to that.  My intuition tells me that were it working their aggregate numbers would be showing improvement.

Tactics - Tight, known playlist.  This tactic fits in well if the station desires to pull off share as a second preset option.  But it diminishes the station utility in commercial settings such as pizza parlors and grocers.  It’s a tradeoff that intuitively makes sense early on in the life of a station that wants time to find its sound, but a year in it sounds over-hedged and overgrown.
What does that leave us with?  A station with an unclear goal, a failing strategy, and a tactic better suited for an earlier stage of the strategy.

MEN 18-34 IS A WIDE OPEN DEMOGRAPHIC HOLE. WOMEN 18-34 IS CROWDED.  WXRK, GET INTO THE BLUE OCEAN!

 

[TonySantiago]

I gave those songs a listen. They sounded really dusty. Today's electro is sterile. No dust. Just clean rooms. Which is why dance as a lifestyle will never appeal to people who listen to rap.

People switch from being into dance to being into rap, not the other way around.

Then not for nothing, I'd rather be in a clean room, sanitized club drinking gin and tonic (Tanqueray, thank you ) knowing that the worst that could possibly happen is a fist fight versus going to a hip-hop venue where I take a risk wondering if someone is going to pop beef on someone, shots ring out and as an innocent bystander I get hit.

Hey if that life appeals to some, then who am I to judge. :-\

 

[d21ofnj]

I gave those songs a listen. They sounded really dusty. Today's electro is sterile. No dust. Just clean rooms. Which is why dance as a lifestyle will never appeal to people who listen to rap.

People switch from being into dance to being into rap, not the other way around.

You know, I grew up on the original hot 97, where dance and hip hop was played together, until they completely flipped to hip-hop. I can't argue with anyone about hip-hop in the 90's. Those artists told it the way it was. They're lyrics had true meaning to life. Those jams told you what is happening in East LA, how they were born and raised poor in the projects, and how to make a dollar out of 50 cents. Now, the hip-hop in the late 90's/early 2000's....completely lost it's edge. All you heard in their lyrics was how many benjamins does it take to pop a bottle of cristal, or talking about pimpin' them ho's and how I own 5 bentleys, and the best song to make me turn away from hip-hop was that oochie wally song, and at that time they said "dance" was about drugs and sex *smh*. The reason why hip-hop in the late 90's/2000's was still on top was because it attracted a lot of the suburban teens who thinks by listening to that form of hip-hop would make them cool, and thought they were "hardcore" and "gangsta," but really have no idea to what those terms really meant. Sorry Don, but the best bet is to hope for a classic hip-hop format, i.e. Warren G, Eazy-E, Onyx, Wu-Tang, Naughty By Nature.

 

[andone]

females who were into rap have drifted into this updated form of electro (which, by the way, is highly derived from Daft Punk's Discovery, now almost a decade old)

And that’s funny because Daft Punk’s Discovery is highly derived from Eddie Johns, Sister Sledge, Tavares, Prince, George Duke, Edwin Birdsong and others:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nkcG4ATyuA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8Ndijo2ysM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJPdVVOmbz4&NR=1

Contemporary house and hip-hop are the same in that they have roots in – and therefore sample from – older soul, funk, disco, and R&B (pop and rock are sampled too). While 90s rappers tended to sample bigger hits, European house DJ/producers sample more of the rare stuff.

Other top house hits from the recent decade or so:
Modjo’s “Lady” … Chic’s “Soup For One” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5-9N0DEfmM
Stardust’s “Music Sounds Better With You” … Chaka Khan’s “Fate” http://www.vbox7.com/play:975b65d9?r=google

American kids could just be sampling some old funk/disco/R&B/pop, add a heavy 4/4 beat and some studio effects, maybe some simple lyrics, increase the BPM and voila. You don’t have to worry about imports. And these can be eventually serviced to radio as the “new electronic sound.”

I know young people like to think of their music as new – and therefore better – but the reality is that the sounds of the past two decades are mainly rehashes of the previous two.

So yeah, 92.3 could do a classic rhythmic sound with a bunch of 70s/80s disco, funk, rap, and R&B and not sound that different or unfamiliar from a lot of what’s out today on other CHR.

 

[MassMusicMan]

I listened when I was down there for the Belmont. The jocks on Z100 sound like the guys at the club who want to say hello and have a good time.

The jocks on Now sound like the guys at the club who will put something in your drink when you look away.

I can't explain the success of the former and the struggles of the latter any more plainly than that.

 

[TonySantiago]

I listened when I was down there for the Belmont. The jocks on Z100 sound like the guys at the club who want to say hello and have a good time.

The jocks on Now sound like the guys at the club who will put something in your drink when you look away.

I can't explain the success of the former and the struggles of the latter any more plainly than that.

Now THAT is deep! ;D

 

[andone]

I gave those songs a listen. They sounded really dusty.

Don’t quite know what you mean by “dusty”. If you mean old, then of course. These were made 22 to 27 years ago, usually as a small budget, indie production. That said, I think they sound remarkably up-to-date.

If by “dusty” you mean raw, then also of course. It was a new sound at the time.

Today's electro is sterile. No dust. Just clean rooms.

Well, one person’s sterile is another person’s well-produced. But I get what you’re saying.

Which is why dance as a lifestyle will never appeal to people who listen to rap.

That’s a pretty broad and absolute statement. And incorrect. Is everybody who listens to rap the same?

Dancing was a major part of early rap and hip-hop. Those early LA tracks were practically all dance tracks. Same goes for the pioneers in NY.

Are you saying that break-dancing isn’t dancing? Isn’t part of the hip-hop culture? Popping? Locking? Bugaloo? Ever heard of hip-hop dancing? Practically half the hip-hop hits of recent years, mainly from the South, have been about some new dance. Many rap hits break out of strip clubs where the, errr, entertainers dance. Most hip-hop videos show people dancing. Hip-hop is played at most major nightclubs in most cities. Clubs where people dance.

Perhaps you’re stereotyping “dance lifestyle” as suburban ravers or circuit boys. That doesn’t “define” dance.

MEN 18-34 IS A WIDE OPEN DEMOGRAPHIC HOLE. WOMEN 18-34 IS CROWDED. WXRK, GET INTO THE BLUE OCEAN!

I’m curious, why should Now tweak to fit your preferred sound rather than Power or Hot?

 

[d21ofnj]

Perhaps you’re stereotyping “dance lifestyle” as suburban ravers or circuit boys. That doesn’t “define” dance.

BINGO!!!! That's where the mainstream still sees "dance" as. People are stuck on the "dance is for gays and dance is only heard at raves" mentality.

 

[musik187]

I just want to say that I've officially given up hope on NOW for "now" at least

Love or hate Z100, they are still Z100, and know how to execute the Top 40 format successfully. I usually go to allaccess.com or yes.com to get my updates each week on what the 2 stations are playing/adding to their playlists, and let me tell you it's so obvious how much better Z100 is than NOW.

Z100 adds new songs to their playlist just about every week (as a Top 40 station should, in theory).

NOW hardly ever adds new songs to their playlist that Z100 hasn't already jumped on weeks earlier, and when they sporadically do, they are the worse most generic sounding songs out there... NOT TO MENTION that NOW adds their new music once every OTHER week or so... really????? Something has to be done, I really don't see how the heads at CBS Radio don't see this... the station is NO match for Z100, so they really have to stop making fools of themselves by constantly bashing Z100 in between songs....

 

[Brooklyndon]

Dancing was a major part of early rap and hip-hop. Those early LA tracks were practically all dance tracks. Same goes for the pioneers in NY.

Are you saying that break-dancing isn’t dancing? Isn’t part of the hip-hop culture? Popping? Locking? Bugaloo? Ever heard of hip-hop dancing?
[\quote]

From what I understand, aside from Zulu Nation, New York preferred the funk-band style of hip-hop in the ‘80s. (And in actuality, very little hip-hop got played in the New York Disco’s aside from Grandmaster Flash’s White Lines because disco was still king in New York clubs well into the mid-80s).

In any case, going back 30 years to show a connection between rap and electro funk is stretch to say the least. It's like saying today's alternative and today's R&B are likely to mix well because they are both derived from the R&B of the 1950s.

Practically half the hip-hop hits of recent years, mainly from the South, have been about some new dance.
[\quote]

Half? Really?

A handful of hip-hop hits have been about some new dance.

Many rap hits break out of strip clubs where the, errr, entertainers dance. Most hip-hop videos show people dancing. Hip-hop is played at most major nightclubs in most cities. Clubs where people dance.
[\quote]

Yeah. The entertainers like the hip-hop. So do the people dancing at the nightclubs. Notice that these people are dancing to hip-hop and not dance music.

Perhaps you’re stereotyping “dance lifestyle” as suburban ravers or circuit boys.
[\quote]

Yeah. I am. Also include women in the mix as well. Dance music is for women to show off their bodies.

I’m curious, why should Now tweak … rather than Power or Hot?

I’m not suggesting NOW tweak. I’m suggesting it re-evaluate its entire vision. Because:

1. There is near unanimity of agreement that CBS radio is the best, among the major broadcasters, at programming urban radio, so there is a corporate competence there.
2. Emmis cannot tweak Hot 97 to draw in older listeners because they will come from Kiss-FM, Emmis’s real money maker.


Power 105 could be a bit of a risk to a hip-hop format on 92.3. But:

1. CBS does a better job programming hip-hop nationally. I have no reason to believe that it would be any different in New York.
2. Perhaps clear Channel would be so delighted to have pressure removed from Z-100 that it would make Power peacefully coexist with a hip-hop format on 92.3.

 

[andone]

Perhaps you’re stereotyping “dance lifestyle” as suburban ravers or circuit boys.

Yeah. I am.

Well that's all I needed to hear. Continue with your consulting.

 

[JustinCase]

So yeah, 92.3 could do a classic rhythmic sound with a bunch of 70s/80s disco, funk, rap, and R&B and not sound that different or unfamiliar from a lot of what’s out today on other CHR.

classic rhythmic? So are you suggesting they take their CHR format and mix in a bunch of rhythmic leaning older stuff from disco on up?

Isn't that exactly what KTU is? NOW, needs to fill a hole, not go head-to-head against another established station, especially if they're going to continue to half-a$$ everything they do!

 

[musik187]

THANK YOU Justin Case, you took the words right out of my mouth!

 

[d21ofnj]

If only Now was more like this...

http://nick8.surfernetwork.com/media/wjse.asx

 

[Wildstyle K]

As far as the dance and rap comment, I listen to and used to be heavily in to both at the same time. I've recently gone back towards more of a dance direction, but still enjoy reminiscing on certain years of my hip hop lifestyle.

But then again, I've always been into unusual types of stuff and combinations that are out of the norm.