Alt 92.3 to Become WINS Simulcast

[JeremyAndrews]

There is no one in the "industry" who is in a state of denial. The ONLY place radio companies are investing is online. The people in denial are the boomers who think all it would take is live & local talent for everyone to give up their phones and laptops. But everyone in radio knows that the future is creating online content.

However, there was an interesting study that says a lot of younger people are streaming AM & FM on their phones, and the number is being undercounted.

https://www.insideradio.com/free/ed...cle_72a598e6-6a3c-11ed-b715-135a7e074ebf.html

Have you ever noticed some of the highest rated CHR stations are ones that happen to have local talent with a more local presentation? This tends to be more often than not in smaller markets with companies that still do mostly radio. This is not going to stop people from using their phones obviously, but it helps to have people in the city promoting the station at local businesses and events. Doing fundraisers. Not just a computer playing voice tracked programming. That's one of the big things radio, especially CHR radio and formats targeting younger people has been running low on. Their sense of community.

My local CHR (An Audacy station) canned their entire promotion staff. They have one local jock on now. Ratings are at their lowest ever since. They're not giving people a reason to not listen to their phone instead of the radio. They're not going out and meeting listeners. They're not doing contests and promotions aside from the national ones. Are the listeners just going to interact with WideOrbit? No, they're not. They're going to interact with Spotify instead.

I know people are going to strongly disagree with everything I'm saying. I understand that. But this is just common sense. Why would radio want to make it harder to listen (Interference), eliminate interaction with it's audience, and just keep on thinking they're still going to continue to be a successful medium? They have done very little to make it better for the listener.

 

[Identnut]

Ask anybody under a certain age if they listen to a regular radio outside of their car, assuming they don’t have a connected car. Industry is in a deep state of denial.

This is something I hate saying because I care about this industry and I actually do use radios.

And we're talking about New York, where many people don't drive.

 

[JeremyAndrews]

And we're talking about New York, where many people don't drive.

Taxi's are a reliable place to hear AM and FM radio nationwide. I'm pretty sure they get a lot of PPM from listeners going in and out of the cabs. Obviously that does not account for the entire audience. You have to factor in people who do drive, or drive for a living and the remaining people who still use AM and FM radios outside of cars and areas outside of the city where more people might be driving.

 

[TheBigA]

Research is flawed. What average young person these days is going to take one of those surveys about their listening habits? We saw this kind of thing with the last election.

If you don't agree with the findings, say so. But don't make up things about research without knowing anything about it.

The fact is that young people are more likely to engage in research than older people.

 

[TheBigA]

Why would radio want to make it harder to listen (Interference), eliminate interaction with it's audience, and just keep on thinking they're still going to continue to be a successful medium? They have done very little to make it better for the listener.

So you're saying they should spend lots of money on staff, and that will cause people to stop using their cell phones and buy FM radios? You call that common sense? Really?

 

[JeremyAndrews]

If you want your station to have success in the community, you need people. It won’t stop people from using their phones, but it will give listeners and advertisers connection to the station. That connection is important. Something that gives them a reason to tune in, something that advertisers want to be a part of

Othereise you can let them run automation and let everybody go to Spotify

 

[Marcos_C]

If you want your station to have success in the community, you need people. It won’t stop people from using their phones, but it will give listeners and advertisers connection to the station. That connection is important. Something that gives them a reason to tune in, something that advertisers want to be a part of

Otherwise you can let them run automation and let everybody go to Spotify

Or YouTube Music, Pandora, Apple Music, etc.

 

[PTBoardOp94]

The fact is that young people are more likely to engage in research than older people.

In research, or in the PPM specifically? Very different things.

 

[davideduardo]

Research is flawed. What average young person these days is going to take one of those surveys about their listening habits? We saw this kind of thing with the last election. This is why I have trouble believing a lot of it these days. It’s limited to people willing to take the time to participate. I have doubts that the younger generation with TikTok is going to stop scrolling and do this research as far as the general population goes. The ones that do might not represent the rest of the population.

In the largest markets, Nielsen measures with meters and the system is household based where everyone participates or nobody does. They are nicely rewarded for participating. The sample is a near-perfect mirror of about 20 "stratification variables" such as age, gender, ethnicity, location, income, education, etc.

In election studies, you need almost total perfection, as one single vote can change the winner. In radio and media, the data is intentionally approximate as such precision is not needed by ad buyers. Still, there are more PPM meters in use in just Los Angeles than the total national survey respondents in presidential races!

Alexa, and smartphones are what young people are using outside of the car. Video game systems. Not an FM Radio.

Again, your data is based on a personal assumption which is not true in the real world.

 

[davideduardo]

Taxi's are a reliable place to hear AM and FM radio nationwide. I'm pretty sure they get a lot of PPM from listeners going in and out of the cabs.

Those little tidbits of listening don't affect the Persons Using Radio numbers or individual station AQH audience... they are too few and too short.

 

[JeremyAndrews]

In the largest markets, Nielsen measures with meters and the system is household based where everyone participates or nobody does. They are nicely rewarded for participating. The sample is a near-perfect mirror of about 20 "stratification variables" such as age, gender, ethnicity, location, income, education, etc.

In election studies, you need almost total perfection, as one single vote can change the winner. In radio and media, the data is intentionally approximate as such precision is not needed by ad buyers. Still, there are more PPM meters in use in just Los Angeles than the total national survey respondents in presidential races!

Again, your data is based on a personal assumption which is not true in the real world.

Not assumption. Just numerous observations over the years. Not just with my own family and friends, all over. If the data proves otherwise, then that is actually good to know. I’m not saying it’s wrong, I just have not seen people under certain ages using radio outside of a car in several years. So it’s just surprising to me. The way radio has been giving up on formats targetting younger people have increased my suspicion, however I’ve noticed Classic Rock stations #1 among 18-34s, so maybe it’s just their listening habits.

 

[Least]

Why should anyone want to stream an out-of-market FM station, likely with pre-roll ads, 12-minute commercial blocks and infuriatingly repetitive Radio Council PSAs on the stream when there are so many better limited-commercial and commercial-free streaming alternatives? I'm streaming more than ever but none of it is a commercial FM station.

New York radio has driven listeners away to non-radio alternatives and here we have a radio forum full of corporate radio cheerleaders yelling 'bravo!' It's insane. Meanwhile, the number of people using radio keeps going down in a way they'll never admit. Not even the radio discussion forums draw much of a crowd anymore, mostly a handful of the same people, that's how irrelevant radio has become. No wonder, there's nothing left on FM for me, or many others anymore.

I don't buy into the "it has to be local, to be good." The problem I fond with Pandora and Spotify is that it's easy to get lost into a circle of the same artists. At least through radio, be it terrestrial or satellite, there is a push to break new songs. So if they can't be found in the home market, it can be found out-of-market.

Not everyone is inclined to want to purchase a subscription to a streaming service. In the end I decided ro subscribe, and chose SiriusXM as where I wanted to subscribe. Regarding ads, free versions of Spotify and Pandora also have many of the same ads as out-of-market streams on iHeart's and Audacy's apps. So, the latter apps are options that I suggest to people who, like me, find that they can't find what interests them on their local FM band.

 

[Least]

I'm on record for have many debates, arguments, and all out heated exchanges with the insiders on this board. I also work greatly in research, just not in the radio industry. Many of people from outside (of which I identify) are unfortunately using anecdotal evidence to debate the research that the insiders are referencing.

"I know that you're wrong, because the people I know all say differently (paraphrase)." While (from my circle) I have the same anecdote, anecdotes don't speak for a full population. Instead they make a determination for a full population, based on the sentiments of a walled garden.

 

[JeremyAndrews]

I don't buy into the "it has to be local, to be good." The problem I fond with Pandora and Spotify is that it's easy to get lost into a circle of the same artists. At least through radio, be it terrestrial or satellite, there is a push to break new songs. So if they can't be found in the home market, it can be found out-of-market.

Not everyone is inclined to want to purchase a subscription to a streaming service. And bringing up ads, free versions of Spotify and Pandora also have many of the same ads as out-of-market streams. So, it's an option that I suggest to people who, like me, find that they can't find what interests them on their local FM band.

I never said all local is good or non local is bad.

I’m saying stations with a presense in their community have a better chance of having a better connection, emotional connection, with their listeners and advertisers.

You can’t send WideOrbit to a local event to meet listeners. WideOrbit won’t answer the phone. A voice tracked jock probably doesn’t know what you mean when you mention something in town. You can advertise on iHeartAdBuilder, but you build no relationship with anybody at the station to work on other things with.

That’s the point I’m getting at.

Why is it that there are numerous small hick town stations with local staff still around and doing fine while major market radio acts like radio is going away and there is nothing that can be done about it? Why has Saga generally been doing fine without piping everything in?

I don’t mean to make this sound heated here, or argumentive or anything. These are just thoughts and observations and concerns I have. Please don’t take them as being disrespectful or combative or anything.

 

[Least]

I never said all local is good or non local is bad.

I’m saying stations with a presense in their community have a better chance of having a better connection, emotional connection, with their listeners and advertisers.

You can’t send WideOrbit to a local event to meet listeners. WideOrbit won’t answer the phone. A voice tracked jock probably doesn’t know what you mean when you mention something in town. You can advertise on iHeartAdBuilder, but you build no relationship with anybody at the station to work on other things with.

That’s the point I’m getting at.

Hoe many local stations are playing local music anymore? I understand and respect your point. I just find that what made local radio unique went away with the dawn of the internet. Once stations started broadcasting in the 90s, followee by the rise of streaming and satellite, there was a slow decay in a desire for local. We can even quite possibly cite 92.3 and It's syndication of Stern as one of the earliest examples that programming being local might not be a deal breaker for listeners.

We can apply the same for Podcasts, which took over the role of the old general talk show format. Many podcasts promote events far outside a listener's geographical reach. Satellite Radio is the same. Alt Nation promotes shows in Las Vegas to listeners across the United States and Canada.

So I'm speaking more from the listener's perspective. Where I agree that it's good for a station to build these relationships, I question if It's important in an age where listeners don't care so much as whether the content they consume is local or not.

 

[JeremyAndrews]

WIXX in Green Bay is an example. Still live and local 24/7. Their company is a big offender when it comes to piping in programming on their other stations, but WIXX is very successful for them in it’s local form.

There are a lot of smaller market stations that still have that connection. WIXX is a bigger example.

In smaller towns, it’s the presense at local schools. Important information (News, farm, Tradio which Howard’s team loves to prank) and just the sense of community. Local advertisers have relationships with the stations.

What they offer alongside of the music is what radio can do better than what any other could. I once tried to sell something on a Tradio show for example. The calls came in almost immediately. Radio can do that still.

 

[TheBigA]

Othereise you can let them run automation and let everybody go to Spotify

Name all the DJs on Spotify. Spotify is a personal music service. Radio can't do personalized music.

People will to Spotify regardless of what local radio does.

 

[JeremyAndrews]

That’s where the local airstaff comes in. They give people something to connect with between the music. In the community. Someone to call, text, give their thoughts, tell their story. Meet. That’s where radio can be different

Spotify is just music and ads if you don’t pay for premium. It’s replaced the CD collections of the past and is quickly replacing radio among some people (not all)

Radio could either be local and engaging between the songs or they can just be a version of Spotify that the listener can’t control with generic voice tracks “Hey some celebrity did this hit me up on Instagram”

 

[TheBigA]

Radio could either be local and engaging between the songs or they can just be a version of Spotify that the listener can’t control with generic voice tracks “Hey some celebrity did this hit me up on Instagram”

Radio is not one thing. There are thousands of radio stations with local talent. Most of the stations in NYC have live & local talent. Including all of the staff at WINS.

 

[JeremyAndrews]

Radio is not one thing. There are thousands of radio stations with local talent. Most of the stations in NYC have live & local talent. Including all of the staff at WINS.

That is true. Anyway, I won’t continue on any longer. I think this thread got a bit too off topic and I was not helping.

I guess we’ll see how things work for WINS soon enough.