Fire coverage thread

[TheBigA]

I also believe had competent officials made reasonable decisions over the prior 20 years, some of which would have been super unpopular and costly, the damage from these particular fires would have been less. Just an opinion though...

I hear the same thing said about radio all the time. If radio owners had just "made reasonable decisions 20 years ago," radio wouldn't be in the state it's in now. There may be some truth to that. But unless radio companies invested in streaming and technology the way that RCA and CBS did with TV in the 1930s and 40s, we'd still be where we are now. Because there was nothing that was going to stop the new technology.

Companies and governments are similar in some ways. How to get things done? Why did they spend so much money on high speed rail? Simple: Have you ever spent any time on the freeway? That's not a practical situation. The suburbs have gotten bigger. At one time, Pacific Palisades was too far from the city to be a practical place to live. By the 60s and 70s, thanks to cars and urban sprawl, it became a lot closer. Same with Glendale and Altadena. The reason the movie moguls built their studios in places like Burbank was because the land there was cheap. So now all that land that used to be farmland, that was once too far from downtown, is now part of the city. The land that's currently on fire was considered too far from the city to matter. Now, there are established neighborhoods that are getting burnt to a crisp.

So sure, there will be lessons learned from this experience. Mayor Bass will not get re-elected. She and her team will be replaced by a new group who will make a lot of promises based on the fires. They were seen as inept, so they will get kicked out. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. The real problem isn't the politicians. It's that people built their houses on land that was too close to the mountains and the ocean. At one time, that land was too far from downtown. But now with cars and freeways and the high speed rail, it's not so far anymore. Circumstances changed. The next group of politicians will have to deal with that, because that part of it is not going to change.

 

[michael hagerty]

And let's not kid ourselves that the folks on the right criticizing policy decisions are offering any constructive ones themselves (and no, sending out someone to rake the Santa Monica Mountains every morning isn't one).

This is Christopher F. Rufo. He's a conservative writer and activist who is leading a war on "woke", and has decided he'd like to contribute some meaningful insights to news coverage of the L.A. fires---specifically the news conferences:

 

[radiofan2023]

The land that's currently on fire was considered too far from the city to matter. Now, there are established neighborhoods that are getting burnt to a crisp.

From listening to yesterday's Handel on the Law, I learned about the FAIR plan, which is California's state fire insurance plan for high risk properties that can't get fire insurance from insurance companies. If that stops issuing new policies, would that help the problem or not?

 

[michael hagerty]

From listening to yesterday's Handel on the Law, I learned about the FAIR plan, which is California's state fire insurance plan for high risk properties that can't get fire insurance from insurance companies. If that stops issuing new policies, would that help the problem or not?

I don't understand your question. How would inability to get insurance help?

 

[radiofan2023]

I don't understand your question. How would inability to get insurance help?

By keeping houses in areas that have had multiple fires from being built there

 

[michael hagerty]

By keeping houses in areas that have had multiple fires from being built there

Okay. Let's work with that.

I don't recall there having been a fire in Pacific Palisades before this one. Do they get to re-build and re-insure?

 

[TheBigA]

By keeping houses in areas that have had multiple fires from being built there

Funny. When I was looking at property in Malibu, the last thing I thought about was insurance.

I don't recall there having been a fire in Pacific Palisades before this one. Do they get to re-build and re-insure?

That's what my buddy in Altadena said. His house was 70 years old. That means there hadn't been a fire there in 70 years. Until now.

 

[michael hagerty]

Funny. When I was looking at property in Malibu, the last thing I thought about was insurance.

I get it.

I live in a neighborhood that, for the last 11+ years, I've thought was pretty well protected from large enough open space to make wildfires a problem.

I'm looking at that a lot differently when seeing how far flaming embers and debris travel in 80 mph winds.

 

[michael hagerty]

That's what my buddy in Altadena said. His house was 70 years old. That means there hadn't been a fire there in 70 years. Until now.

Right. Which is what I don't understand about what radiofan2023 was saying.

Do we just write Altadena, Pacific Palisades and parts of Pasadena off as uninhabitable space? Does it revert to nature? If it does, then you have undeveloped land, vulnerable to fire, up against inhabitable communities that haven't had fires---yet.

And if that's the plan, then we need to take a hard look at whether people should be living in Texas and Oklahoma (tornadoes), Florida, the Gulf of Mexico and much of the Eastern Seaboard (hurricanes)....along the Mississippi River (flooding)...

Moab, Utah is gonna get really crowded.

 

[TheBigA]

Do we just write Altadena, Pacific Palisades and parts of Pasadena off as uninhabitable space? Does it revert to nature? If it does, then you have undeveloped land, vulnerable to fire, up against inhabitable communities that haven't had fires---yet.

That's what caused part of this problem. The fires didn't start in Palisades or Altadena. They started in the uninhabited areas around them and blew there with hurricane force winds. So if people don't rebuild, then the brush just moves closer to Beverly Hills.

 

[Mark Roberts]

Funny. When I was looking at property in Malibu, the last thing I thought about was insurance.

Until now.

Insurance availability became an obstacle when we sold our Oakland house a little more than a year ago. It was finally resolved through the Fair Plan, but the closing was delayed a couple of months as a result.

Just as in radio, what wasn't a factor in the past now is.

 

[TheBigA]

Insurance availability became an obstacle when we sold our Oakland house a little more than a year ago. It was finally resolved through the Fair Plan, but the closing was delayed a couple of months as a result.

Sounds like a bank (or lender) was involved. And there will likely be lending involved in any rebuild. I'm sure the governor already knows that.

The rebuild will be about who pays? The state or private equity? We've already seen private equity at work in radio. We know what that's like.

There's a reason they call them "vulture capitalists." From what I hear, the vultures are already circling around Palisades.

 

[Mark Roberts]

Do we just write Altadena, Pacific Palisades and parts of Pasadena off as uninhabitable space? Does it revert to nature? If it does, then you have undeveloped land, vulnerable to fire, up against inhabitable communities that haven't had fires---yet.

It's interesting you mention that. The Oakland and Berkeley hills are adjacent to large areas of open space, the East Bay Regional Parks. EBRPD does do some fire mitigation but there are still thousands of trees there. My house was roughly a quarter mile from those parks. You know what happened in 1991. It could happen again, and this time it might not stop at the Claremont Hotel. Even Emeryville could be in danger the next time.

The solution at the time was to rebuild, this time with utilities underground. A few other streets managed to get their utilities undergrounded, including the one I lived on, but only in the face of substantial opposition from CPUC staff. The California Public Utilities Commission is just about the most stupid bureaucracy out there, packed with political appointees with little or no utility knowledge, with a staff that's in cahoots with "intervenors", i.e. so-called public interest groups that push their own agendas. The LA department of water and power is not subject to the CPUC's whims, but Southern California Edison is. In any event, in the past year, the CPUC staff has been pushing a proposal to end the program to perform whatever little underground exists, which has hung up yet another undergrounding project in my former Oakland neighborhood. I get it, undergrounding is expensive; the total cost just for my former house in Oakland approached $100,000, of which we paid 20%. But rebuilding after a disaster such as the ones now afflicting Los Angeles is far more expensive. The CPUC staff has not grasped that fact, and I have little doubt that they won't.

Moab, Utah is gonna get really crowded.

Colorado has the problem in some areas -- I really worry about Boulder, and the Marshall fire did a number on a couple of communities in the flatlands south and east of Boulder -- so that's why we're not in Boulder, lovely as it is. I also know of Boulderites who've moved to Denver or its suburbs due to these concerns.

 

[Mark Roberts]

Sounds like a bank (or lender) was involved.

Of course. Insurance is required with a mortgage. You can "self-insure" if you don't have one, but that's a risk individuals really should not take.

And there will likely be lending involved in any rebuild. I'm sure the governor already knows that.

The rebuild will be about who pays? The state or private equity? We've already seen private equity at work in radio. We know what that's like.

It's going to be a mess.

 

[Y2kTheNewOldies]

Sometimes a natural disaster is just a natural disaster that's beyond humans' capability to control.

One of the news reports I saw today noted that you could fit the states of Rhode Island and Delaware inside just Los Angeles county. Who's supposed to clear all that brush?

Yes and both Calfire, LA Fire Department sent evacuation orders to 100k residents whose homes are within the danger zone.

Burbank, California - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In other words Calfire had to issue evacuation orders to a population size of the entire city of Burbank off the danger zones.

 

[michael hagerty]

It's interesting you mention that. The Oakland and Berkeley hills are adjacent to large areas of open space, the East Bay Regional Parks. EBRPD does do some fire mitigation but there are still thousands of trees there. My house was roughly a quarter mile from those parks. You know what happened in 1991. It could happen again, and this time it might not stop at the Claremont Hotel. Even Emeryville could be in danger the next time.

Just look at the 2017 Tubbs Fire, which swept through what were previously believed to be safe areas of Santa Rosa. In fact, the survivors of that fire are sharing their insights about what comes next for L.A.:

2017 North Bay Tubbs Fire survivors share challenges SoCal survivors may face to rebuild

"It's a marathon to recover from something like this." As thousands grapple with the reality of losing their homes or businesses in the Los Angeles fires, Bay Area wildfire survivors are sharing advice and speaking about the challenges many will face in the rebuilding process.

abc7news.com

Colorado has the problem in some areas -- I really worry about Boulder, and the Marshall fire did a number on a couple of communities in the flatlands south and east of Boulder -- so that's why we're not in Boulder, lovely as it is. I also know of Boulderites who've moved to Denver or its suburbs due to these concerns.

Yep. Unless you live on a vast expanse of rock, sand or water, you're vulnerable.

 

[TheBigA]

Unless you live on a vast expanse of rock, sand or water, you're vulnerable.

That sounds like Malibu. Those houses along PCH are now gone. They sit on sand, rock, and are next to the ocean.

Unfortunately they're across the PCH from the brush, and the fire blew over the highway onto their roofs.

They are so out of the way that by the time the fire engines got there, the houses were already gone.

 

[michael hagerty]

That sounds like Malibu. Those houses along PCH are now gone. They sit on sand, rock, and are next to the ocean.

Unfortunately they're across the PCH from the brush, and the fire blew over the highway onto their roofs.

That's why I said "vast expanse."





That's not a "vast expanse". You could throw a baseball across PCH from in front of any of those houses and hit the brush.



I'm talking about this...well, actually, that's too close to vegetation, too...





this...





or this...

 

[michael hagerty]

They are so out of the way that by the time the fire engines got there, the houses were already gone.

There are four L.A. County Fire Stations in Malibu...two of them on Pacific Coast Highway, six miles apart.

Fire Department | Malibu, CA - Official Website

View useful resources from local fire services.

www.malibucity.org

 

[TheBigA]

That's why I said "vast expanse."

I bet they were mainly worried about avalanche or flood. Not fire. I would never live there myself.

There are four L.A. County Fire Stations in Malibu...two of them on Pacific Coast Highway, six miles apart.

That's what I thought, but one of the owners said he never saw a fire engine. He was washing his house with a water hose until he saw a wall of fire.