100.3 The Sound goes Deep; 86s "World Class Rock"

[SuperRadioFan]

Super"Fan," you really cannot be serious. You, sir, are the one with the hate, along with 4U, you are two hate-peas in a pod.

My God where do I begin? Oh yeah, WHY so much hostility ????????

I can't stand by and let you propagate nastiness about a station I like, just because they didn't play your request!

Do you have a problem with reading comprehension, compadre? Please quote me where I said I hate The Sound, where I said I hate the music they play. Show me how an opinion equals 'nastiness'.

-- everyone pretty much agrees that this station would totally fail if it tried to be the old KSCA or World Class Rock Channel 103.1. So, why do you keep getting hopping mad because they aren't trying to do that??? I happen to like how this station sounds (SEE? Look, I'm being positive!).

They are failing now, brother, are they not? Or do you think that having over 30 other market stations ahead of you in your demo is a mark of success? Look, since they've gone the KLOS-Lite route their 'listenership' totals have gone down. No improvement for six months! So what would they have to lose at this point by adopting a format similar to other Adult Alternative stations in the USA that are ON THE AIR (not Internet-only)? Seems to me your reading comprehesion needs improvement because you missed it when I have stated many times that The Sound is a big disappointment. I am not hopping mad, that's your own mischaracterization of my posts.

You came on here a few months ago and said the Sound isn't as good as your web stations.

Hellllloooo that is an opinion. Since you have a huge axe to grind with me, let me also state that The Sound is not as good as at least 50 over the air 'AAA' stations in the U.S. Please do not again try to make this an Internet-only vs Over the Air debate.

When will you get it that you don't run the Sound? You just said that there are great people running it, didn't you? And because they don't play your favorite songs, they're failures??

I didn't say they're failures, the Arbitron ratings say that.

 

[davideduardo]

I mean, David Eduard (and forgive me if I'm wrong, but I think 4U and Scooty said similar things) -- everyone pretty much agrees that this station would totally fail if it tried to be the old KSCA or World Class Rock Channel.

I believe Glen and I have said that trying to do AAA or any mutation of AAA in LA is bound to fail because the market demographics won't and can't support such a format. DOA. They can tinker all they like, but this format is useful only as a container for embalming fluid.

 

[Zeb Norris]

I mean, David Eduard (and forgive me if I'm wrong, but I think 4U and Scooty said similar things) -- everyone pretty much agrees that this station would totally fail if it tried to be the old KSCA or World Class Rock Channel.

I believe Glen and I have said that trying to do AAA or any mutation of AAA in LA is bound to fail because the market demographics won't and can't support such a format. DOA. They can tinker all they like, but this format is useful only as a container for embalming fluid.

Wow. Harsh.

Look, AAA is the MOST varied, flexible format I am aware of. Truth be told, it isn't even truly a format; it's just a convenient catch all for Radio & Records. Take a look at the playlists of KENZ in Salt Lake vs KFOG in San Francisco. There is very little shared music. But they're both AAA reporters for R&R.

Now, given the demographics of LA and the flexibility of the so-called "format", it seems to me that it would be possible to include a fairly serious portion of Rock en Espanol in their mix. I know that SuperRadioFan might not think that's AAA, and lots of others might not either, but it could be done... with the goal obviously being to address the marketplace, which is why AAA is so varied to begin with. Different markets, different opportunities.

Embalming fluid? Man, I thought you had less vitriol than 4U Hates.

I think I just decided to give up on this board. Again.

 

[SuperRadioFan]

Don't do it, Zeb! Your posts about music and radio are appreciated because they seem devoid of personal attacks.

I wouldn't mind hearing some Rock en Espanol, I'm sure you are familiar with Radio Paradise who play a lot of different typers of World Music. Do you know early on The Sound played Ozomatli? Thievery Corporation? Although they should have played Calexico. And they rarely play Los Lobos these days.

As to your point about my preferences, let me be clear. Just about every track The Sound plays I have no problem with, I like most of them. It's just the concentration of so much classic rock in the mix... About 25% of the music is from a handful of artists. That may be safe for LA but as I mentioned, the results they are getting are not desirable. So why not continue the evolvement The Sound was practicing in June of 2008?

 

[AM FM listener]

I also like your posts, Zeb. Don't leave us. I usually enjoy David Eduardo's posts too because they tend to be factual, not personal. So, I was a little surprised by his "embalming fluid" comment. However, I will assume that was intended to be humorous.

Now, as for what to do differently so that AAA, specifically The Sound, can succeed in LA, I like the idea of playing more Latin-oriented rock, like Los Lobos, which I would think would be a perfect fit here.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

I mean, David Eduard (and forgive me if I'm wrong, but I think 4U and Scooty said similar things) -- everyone pretty much agrees that this station would totally fail if it tried to be the old KSCA or World Class Rock Channel.

I believe Glen and I have said that trying to do AAA or any mutation of AAA in LA is bound to fail because the market demographics won't and can't support such a format. DOA. They can tinker all they like, but this format is useful only as a container for embalming fluid.

Wow. Harsh.

Look, AAA is the MOST varied, flexible format I am aware of. Truth be told, it isn't even truly a format; it's just a convenient catch all for Radio & Records. Take a look at the playlists of KENZ in Salt Lake vs KFOG in San Francisco. There is very little shared music. But they're both AAA reporters for R&R.

Now, given the demographics of LA and the flexibility of the so-called "format", it seems to me that it would be possible to include a fairly serious portion of Rock en Espanol in their mix. I know that SuperRadioFan might not think that's AAA, and lots of others might not either, but it could be done... with the goal obviously being to address the marketplace, which is why AAA is so varied to begin with. Different markets, different opportunities.

Embalming fluid? Man, I thought you had less vitriol than 4U Hates.

I think I just decided to give up on this board. Again.

I love it when a troll comes by, accuses the long-time posters of so much vitriol, posts inflammatory political tripe, and then when they get blowback, decide to take their ball and go home. As they say, DLTDHYOTWO!

 

[scooty430]

I also like your posts, Zeb. Don't leave us. I usually enjoy David Eduardo's posts too because they tend to be factual, not personal. So, I was a little surprised by his "embalming fluid" comment. However, I will assume that was intended to be humorous.

Now, as for what to do differently so that AAA, specifically The Sound, can succeed in LA, I like the idea of playing more Latin-oriented rock, like Los Lobos, which I would think would be a perfect fit here.

Do you really think David Eduardo's posts are "factual, not personal?"

I've been told "I live under a rock," that I "have a reading comprehension problem," and that I "know nothing about radio."

 

[davideduardo]

Do you really think David Eduardo's posts are "factual, not personal?"

I've been told "I live under a rock," that I "have a reading comprehension problem," and that I "know nothing about radio."

All three issues are demonstrable.

"Living under a rock" is a common phrase used to describe those who are not aware of reality. Your frequent rants about shorter playlists shows that you do not understand that the fate of stations with larger than warranted lists is uniformly failure... but one example of this rocky living quality.

"Reading comprehension problems" are the usual causes for refusing to recognize facts. Of course, one who insists on things that don't work over and over, hoping that they will eventually work can be accused of other things, too. I was just being kind.

"Knowing nothing about radio" would be the conclusion of anyone in the business with even a tiny bit of success and history upon reading your posts; you may listen to the radio a lot, but you know no more about radio due to familiarity than a tiger knows about the anatomy of gazelles just because the tiger has eaten many a gazelle...

 

[davideduardo]

I also like your posts, Zeb. Don't leave us. I usually enjoy David Eduardo's posts too because they tend to be factual, not personal. So, I was a little surprised by his "embalming fluid" comment. However, I will assume that was intended to be humorous.

The comment was intended to show that there is no way AAA will work in today's LA. It's been tried over and over. Like the saying goes, the definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over and hoping for a different outcome.

Now, as for what to do differently so that AAA, specifically The Sound, can succeed in LA, I like the idea of playing more Latin-oriented rock, like Los Lobos, which I would think would be a perfect fit here.

Los Lobos is no more Latin in appeal than Jerry García was... you can hardly say that the Dead are a Latin act.

Even were the group to have Latin appeal, the rest of the format has essentially no Hispanic appeal. The station gets about four times the AQH audience among "other" in Arbitron that it does among Hispanics, despite both groups being nearly equal in size...

 

[davideduardo]

Wow. Harsh.

No, truthful. As said in a separate response, been tried multiple times, and does not work.

Now, given the demographics of LA and the flexibility of the so-called "format", it seems to me that it would be possible to include a fairly serious portion of Rock en Espanol in their mix. I know that SuperRadioFan might not think that's AAA, and lots of others might not either, but it could be done... with the goal obviously being to address the marketplace, which is why AAA is so varied to begin with. Different markets, different opportunities.

The non-Hispanics would hate that, and there are not enough Spanish rock fans in LA to fill a 4,000 person venue one night with a top act.

In fact, there is no successful Spanish rock station in all Latin America save Argentina.. and there are only about eleven or twelve Argentines in LA. And so you will not think I am dissing Spanish rock because I am realistic about its LA potential, the one succesful Spansh rocker was programmed by yours truly from inception for its first 4 or 5 years...

http://www.davidgleason.com/1999-Mega.htm

Embalming fluid? Man, I thought you had less vitriol than 4U Hates.

One usually embalms the dead, particularly if they plan to keep the cadaver around for a year or so. The format has no appeal save to a tiny percentage in LA... it's just the wrong market for this to work in any form, blend, mix or flavor.

 

[AM FM listener]

So, David. Given AAA's low probability of success in LA, for the reasons you mentioned, why do you think Bonneville chose that format for their first LA station? You have insight as to how companies arrive at these decisions. And, by most accounts, Bonneville is a respectable radio company. In your opinion, is there a rational business reason for what they did or do you think it was just an outright mistake that they now regret?

 

[davideduardo]

So, David. Given AAA's low probability of success in LA, for the reasons you mentioned, why do you think Bonneville chose that format for their first LA station? You have insight as to how companies arrive at these decisions. And, by most accounts, Bonneville is a respectable radio company. In your opinion, is there a rational business reason for what they did or do you think it was just an outright mistake that they now regret?

Bonneville is one of the best radio groups there is. They have decades of history treating their listeners and employees with respect.

But everyone makes a mistake or ten in this business, and Bonneville is not immune,

So the possibilities for a reason are numerous.

First, they perhaps did not know the extent to which those ethnic elements that make up 75% of the population shun the AAA format (in any of its variants). More than that, they may not have seen how the ethnic majority in LA shapes in many ways the rest of the market.

They also may have misjudged the ability of their format to take from stations like KLOS. There had to be, in their mind, and underserved group they could appeal to.

They also may have the idea that if they play the music long enough, it will become more familiar "to the masses" and ratings will rise. Speaking as someone who grew up musically in Latin America, I can say that when you hear music that to you sounds like a meat grinder, no amount of exposure will make it more appealing. In general, what that anecdote means is that there is not a large enough affinity group that could provide long term growth.

Of course, the possibilities include bad research which showed greater potential or bad interpretation of research, two reasonably common happenings. And then there is the possibility that they were advised by people who just did not get the effects of the extreme and unique ethnic makeup of LA.

Of course, we will likely not learn why this hapened. While success has many fathers, failure is an orphan.

 

[Dick Skinner]

Of course, the possibilities include bad research which showed greater potential or bad interpretation of research, two reasonably common happenings. And then there is the possibility that they were advised by people who just did not get the effects of the extreme and unique ethnic makeup of LA.

Of course, we will likely not learn why this hapened. While success has many fathers, failure is an orphan.

I suspect there were, and remain, too many cooks stirring this pot. Envision the nightmarish programming/marketing meetings at this property: VP's, consultants, research guys, PD, MD, GSM...everyone trying to cover their own asses and no one wanting to address the elephant in the room (forgive the mixed metaphor). Result: A poorly focused product with blurred identity and unrealistic expectations. Incidentally, that is the elephant in the room. Everybody knows it , but no one dares speak the truth. DE's right. Great company making mistakes. What a shame!

 

[airpab]

The mark of a truly great company is to see your mistake, admit you made one (a huge and expensive one at that) and fix it !!

Bonneville tried to create something that just wasn't there and did a bad job of doing it.

They still own a huge signal in a huge market and can easily fill a hole that was left by KLSX!

Look for KLOS to do just that if Bonneville continues to drag its feet in ratings hell !

 

[SuperRadioFan]

"KSWD Launches Its Own March Madness With 'Album Madness' "

Very strange, I could not find a thing about this on their website. Let me know if you do.


http://www.radioandrecords.com/RRWe...ContentID=47787&FormatId=13&ContentTypeID=106

 

[4UH8SIMBKAGN]

"KSWD Launches Its Own March Madness With 'Album Madness' "

Very strange, I could not find a thing about this on their website. Let me know if you do.


http://www.radioandrecords.com/RRWe...ContentID=47787&FormatId=13&ContentTypeID=106

It's on the right column of their homepage http://www.thesoundla.com/?nid=107 Would be nice if on the homepage they explain the link to March Madness. The page is quite poorly set up. Again, they sure like to make things look "busy" at The Sound.

 

[JPT]

"KSWD Launches Its Own March Madness With 'Album Madness' "

Very strange, I could not find a thing about this on their website. Let me know if you do.


http://www.radioandrecords.com/RRWe...ContentID=47787&FormatId=13&ContentTypeID=106

It's on the right column of their homepage http://www.thesoundla.com/?nid=107 Would be nice if on the homepage they explain the link to March Madness. The page is quite poorly set up. Again, they sure like to make things look "busy" at The Sound.

As someone who writes web copy and works frequently with web designers, The Sound's web site makes me cringe...but I guess their agency knows best. :-\

 

[SuperRadioFan]

It's on the right column of their homepage http://www.thesoundla.com/?nid=107 Would be nice if on the homepage they explain the link to March Madness. The page is quite poorly set up. Again, they sure like to make things look "busy" at The Sound.

Thanks Glenn. I'm at home now and I had no problem seeing that link to the right on my home computer. Some web pages do not display properly on my (soon-to-be-replaced) computer/monitor in my office. That may have been the problem but I'll verify it in the morning. With a neat (I guess) promotion such as this, you'd think it would occupy a more prominent place on their home page. Instead they waste a lot of space with their very large "button" displaying an album cover of the artist currently playing. The one they have for The Police is a real hoot!

 

[SuperRadioFan]

As someone who writes web copy and works frequently with web designers, The Sound's web site makes me cringe...but I guess their agency knows best. :-\

There must be an emotive icon displaying "cringe" but I don't see it here.....

 

[elchupacabras]

This is not the first time Bonneville has made a marketing mistake. Three years ago in their home market of Salt Lake, they launched a new 50kw AM signal (KUTR) targeted at women and talk. Their market research lead them to believe it could be a successful companion to market leader KSL AM/FM. It was a massive failure after two books. It was shut down in favor of Mormon music, but that took it down to nothing and was sold off at fire sale prices to a Christian group.

Perhaps being on AM was a factor, since they were targeting the 25-45 year old female. Demographics that did not jive with the station.