Another Pittsburgh rimshot?

[Parttimer]

And that's why I don't understand the negativity towards these small rimshot stations on this board.

Because no one is listening to them.

 

[Boss Radio]

I don't think it's negativity as much as it's well-founded skepticism about their ability to be viable.

It's a natural reaction to the posts suggesting that some dead-end signal at the high end of the AM dial is just a format switch away from success.

 

[Whiplash]

What 620 and 770 are doing is perfect for their place in the market. When I was back last week, I enjoyed the music on 620 more than any other Pittsburgh FM. It was tight with great jingles and flow.

Whatever they decide to do with the new FM, it will be unique and sound better than the FM's in the burgh.

Think of the people who are going to be behind the station, and realize how good it can sound in the Westmoreland County area.

 

[kenhawk1160]

I personally don't like to see an FM (or any station, for that matter) uprooted from a county seat and moved to another town, with a wannabe intent of being another "Pittsburgh station".

However, I do see that Bob intends to make substantial improvements to that AM in Waynesburg. I would hope that he plans to run it as a community-oriented station.

 

[cingram]

I personally don't like to see an FM (or any station, for that matter) uprooted from a county seat and moved to another town, with a wannabe intent of being another "Pittsburgh station".

However, I do see that Bob intends to make substantial improvements to that AM in Waynesburg. I would hope that he plans to run it as a community-oriented station.

Based on the signal contour 103.1 will not be a de facto Pittsburgh station, but it certainly will compete with all of the Pittsburgh stations in its listening area, so it had better be as good as them (or better). And I'm sure many people in southern Allegheny County will tune in the new 103.1 signal.

I don't speak for Bob but as far as I know, no big changes are planned for the Waynesburg AM. Don't forget that 103.1 will continue to throw a 57 dBu signal over Waynesburg, so it's not as though Greene County will no longer get service from the FM side.

C.

 

[cingram]

I personally don't like to see an FM (or any station, for that matter) uprooted from a county seat and moved to another town, with a wannabe intent of being another "Pittsburgh station".

However, I do see that Bob intends to make substantial improvements to that AM in Waynesburg. I would hope that he plans to run it as a community-oriented station.

Based on its signal contour 103.1 will not be a de facto Pittsburgh station, but it certainly will compete with all of the Pittsburgh stations in its listening area, so it had better be as good as them (or better). And I'm sure many people in southern Allegheny County will tune in the new 103.1 signal.

I don't speak for Bob, but as far as I know no big changes* are planned for Waynesburg's AM. Don't forget that 103.1 will continue to throw a 57 dBu signal over Waynesburg, so it's not as though Greene County will no longer get service from the FM side.

*Edited to add: No big programming changes, that is. The signal will be improved.

C.

 

[Biz Listener]

I personally don't like to see an FM (or any station, for that matter) uprooted from a county seat and moved to another town, with a wannabe intent of being another "Pittsburgh station".

What difference does it make if a station is licensed to a county seat or to some other city? If all it programs are syndicated juke-box services off of a satelite, plus some intern doing a rip&read newscast and calling it "live and local" news, and some high school sports casts thrown in as vanity programming (and a chance for freelance sports writers to maybe get on the air), what's the big deal? If a station is "serving" a community and fewer than 1 out of 20 local residents ever listen to it, who's kidding who about how important the station is to the community?

 

[kenhawk1160]

What difference does it make if a station is licensed to a county seat or to some other city? If all it programs are syndicated juke-box services off of a satelite, plus some intern doing a rip&read newscast and calling it "live and local" news, and some high school sports casts thrown in as vanity programming (and a chance for freelance sports writers to maybe get on the air), what's the big deal? If a station is "serving" a community and fewer than 1 out of 20 local residents ever listen to it, who's kidding who about how important the station is to the community?

And where are you getting those figures, Biz? WANB-FM was a very community oriented station for as long as I can remember. They were everywhere, news-heavy, and very much
the voice of Greene County. Lori Houy got her start there, and so did many others.

Clarke...what is WANB-AM doing now? Are they still simulcasting the FM? I can't see that continuing if they're making all these improvements for a simulcaster.

 

[Biz Listener]

And where are you getting those figures, Biz?

Doesn't a 5 share translate to 5 out of every 100 listeners, which equals 1 out of ever 20? Isn't around a 5 share what most stations in counties that surround a major city typically pull, on average?

I'm not talking about how much interesting and/or important local information is pushed out the stick, I'm talking about how many people in a county that's adjacent to a big city listen to the local station, compared with how many choose to listen to the stations from the big city?

Just as an example, how many people in Butler county listen mostly to WDVE or some other Pittsburgh station instead of the stations with transmitters and studios in Butler? Feel free to substitute any other county that's next to any other big city. I'm trying to make a broad, general point, not a specific comment about a specific station that I can't pick up on my radio anyway.

The only "county seat" station near Pittsburgh whose format I know is WJPA. How many people in Washington County who don't like oldies listen to WJPA anyway just because it's local? How many people who don't have kids in high school tune in high school sports, or if they do have kids in high school tune in games between schools their kids don't go to?

I don't doubt that WJPA is probably a wonderful station. I've never listened to it, but I've heard that it's well run and that the guy who owns it is a really nice guy. But I just can't understand why so many people get all worked up about keeping fringe area stations "local" when the majority of the people who live within the range of the tower don't care much or at all, and instead listen to whatever big city station they can pick up that has the programming that they want to hear.

And I'll take anyone's word that WANB was community oriented. What I want to know is how many people in the community were WANB oriented?

 

[cingram]

Clarke...what is WANB-AM doing now? Are they still simulcasting the FM? I can't see that continuing if they're making all these improvements for a simulcaster.

Yes, WANB-AM is still simulcasting the FM with some breakaways. My point above (and sorry for the duplicate post) was that, as far as I know, WANB's programming will continue on the AM side. The FM obviously will be broadening its reach and will be more than just a Waynesburg or Greene County radio station.

C.

 

[Parttimer]

And where are you getting those figures, Biz?

Doesn't a 5 share translate to 5 out of every 100 listeners, which equals 1 out of ever 20? Isn't around a 5 share what most stations in counties that surround a major city typically pull, on average?

I'm not talking about how much interesting and/or important local information is pushed out the stick, I'm talking about how many people in a county that's adjacent to a big city listen to the local station, compared with how many choose to listen to the stations from the big city?

Just as an example, how many people in Butler county listen mostly to WDVE or some other Pittsburgh station instead of the stations with transmitters and studios in Butler? Feel free to substitute any other county that's next to any other big city. I'm trying to make a broad, general point, not a specific comment about a specific station that I can't pick up on my radio anyway.

The only "county seat" station near Pittsburgh whose format I know is WJPA. How many people in Washington County who don't like oldies listen to WJPA anyway just because it's local? How many people who don't have kids in high school tune in high school sports, or if they do have kids in high school tune in games between schools their kids don't go to?

I don't doubt that WJPA is probably a wonderful station. I've never listened to it, but I've heard that it's well run and that the guy who owns it is a really nice guy. But I just can't understand why so many people get all worked up about keeping fringe area stations "local" when the majority of the people who live within the range of the tower don't care much or at all, and instead listen to whatever big city station they can pick up that has the programming that they want to hear.

And I'll take anyone's word that WANB was community oriented. What I want to know is how many people in the community were WANB oriented?

To be totally accurate, a 5 rating means 5% of the people in the market are listening. A 5 share means 5% of the people listening in that quarter-hour are tuned to your station. So if only 30% of the people are listening to the radio, and you have a 5 share, then .6% of the total population is listening. In a market of 50,000 people, that's 300 listeners. This is why little stations can't really sell spots for the most part. they do the ultra-local stuff because mom-and-pop businesses can be talked into the small amounts of money these stations charge, and they can't even think about advertising on major market stations where a spot might be $300.

Now I know some on this board think that return on investment merits making these small facilities worth operating. Again, Bob Stevens has it right, sell some blocks of time because that's your greatest income potential.

 

[PHIL Z]

I met Bob Stevens in 1975 at WLSW. Bob told me that Mt. Pleasant would be a good home for an FM Radio station .
He had it all figured out. Now 33 years he is making it happen. Bob came from a working class family, He is living his Dream,
Not too many People can do that anymore. Good Luck Bob.
PS 103.1 should come into Northern Allegheny County as well as Southern. WLSW 103.9 and SAM FM 107.1 come in
Strong and i'm only a few miles from WAMO's 106.7 Tower.

 

[Biz Listener]

I'm still waiting for someone to explain why it's important for towns on the perimiter of larger cities that have been turned into suburbs of the bigger city to still have "local" stations that "server the local community" when it's clear that the local communities aren't really serving the local radio stations.

There are plenty of business plans for how to make a profit with a small town station that few people listen to.

There are plenty of heaps of praise for the small town programs that stations broadcasting into the ether that few people tune in to hear.

But there's nothing about why it's wrong for small town stations to follow the example of the people who live near their transmitters and act like they're part of the larger, metro market.

 

[Parttimer]

For the most part it's easier to sell the local stuff to local advertisers. That's pretty much the entire story.

 

[Boss Radio]

I met Bob Stevens in 1975 at WLSW. Bob told me that Mt. Pleasant would be a good home for an FM Radio station .
He had it all figured out. Now 33 years he is making it happen.

Whatever Bob figured out 33 years ago probably won't work today. A lot of things have changed -- radically.

 

[Biz Listener]

For the most part it's easier to sell the local stuff to local advertisers. That's pretty much the entire story.

I don't dispute that fact, but that's still one of those "business plans for how to make a profit with a small town station that few people listen to" statement. I'm looking for one of the people who keep making a big deal out of "keeping local stations" and how terrible it is when a rimshot starts programming like it was a part of the larger metro to explain why it's so important to keep the local stations from relocating and changing formats to present themselves as metro stations instead of county seat stations.

 

[Parttimer]

Well, you have to have some reason to exist. If you want to compete with the big boys your product will have to be competitive, and few small operators have the resources or personal talent to make that happen (I mean really, would you listen to a poorly-done local music station just because it's local?). Thus local content is the only unique aspect they can offer and it draws an audience that in some cases is literally just the advertisers themselves.

I fail to see any "importance" to staying local. Most people just don't care about local town hall meetings and such anymore, they barely know who's running for president.

 

[MsMusicRadio]

Who is running for President?

 

[Biz Listener]

Who is running for President?

There's one guy from the one party, and another guy from the other big party, and a bunch of guys from the itty-bitty parties no one ever heard of. Same as last time.

 

[kenhawk1160]

Doesn't a 5 share translate to 5 out of every 100 listeners, which equals 1 out of ever 20? Isn't around a 5 share what most stations in counties that surround a major city typically pull, on average?

I'm not talking about how much interesting and/or important local information is pushed out the stick, I'm talking about how many people in a county that's adjacent to a big city listen to the local station, compared with how many choose to listen to the stations from the big city?

Just as an example, how many people in Butler county listen mostly to WDVE or some other Pittsburgh station instead of the stations with transmitters and studios in Butler? Feel free to substitute any other county that's next to any other big city. I'm trying to make a broad, general point, not a specific comment about a specific station that I can't pick up on my radio anyway.

The only "county seat" station near Pittsburgh whose format I know is WJPA. How many people in Washington County who don't like oldies listen to WJPA anyway just because it's local? How many people who don't have kids in high school tune in high school sports, or if they do have kids in high school tune in games between schools their kids don't go to?

I don't doubt that WJPA is probably a wonderful station. I've never listened to it, but I've heard that it's well run and that the guy who owns it is a really nice guy. But I just can't understand why so many people get all worked up about keeping fringe area stations "local" when the majority of the people who live within the range of the tower don't care much or at all, and instead listen to whatever big city station they can pick up that has the programming that they want to hear.

And I'll take anyone's word that WANB was community oriented. What I want to know is how many people in the community were WANB oriented?

Biz:

For starters, WANB is not adjacent to a "big city", as you purport. Since when did Greene County adjoin Pittsburgh or Allegheny County? According to my maps, it's still south of Washington and east of Fayette. There's no quick way to get to Pittsburgh or even the South Hills, from where Waynesburg is situated.

Thus, whatever Arbitron says is totally irrelevant. If you're looking to succeed in a market that far away from the city with that kind of signal by relying on the numbers, you deserve to lose because you don't know how to sell.

The most successful stations in markets of that size succeed by their reputation...not what a book produced in Baltimore says. You can march into the local Ace hardware store where the guy at the cash register is also most likely the same guy who decides whether or not to do business with your station. You can wave that book in his face and say "But we're number one with females 25-54!" He can come back and say "You're not number one with me...I don't like the garbage you guys play."

You have to work hard in small market radio to be successful. That's the problem. Nobody wants to work hard anymore. Everyone wants to sit back and collect a check. If you don't work hard, then you haven't rightfully earned it.

I can tell you this much, you offer local news, high school sports, maintain regular dialogue with the mayor, county commissioners, state legislators, chamber of commerce, and all those people who own business in that town, you'll win. You don't stay in touch with the street, forget it. You might as well close up and move.

I work for the radio stations in Butler County. Trust me...we're successful. Ask anyone on this board and they will tell you how successful we are.

And I worked for WJPA for two years. They're VERY LOCAL and VERY SUCCESSFUL. If you take some time to do it, turn on 95.3 and crank 'er up. You'll know what I'm talking about.