Classic Hits: Evolution or Revolution?

[michael hagerty]

that they might as well have gone ahead and used the Naked Eyes version! After all, it's the one that I remember! 8)

It's the preferred version and the one remembered the most from our youth (1983), no question, but the other two (Shaw & Warwick) will not make me tune out either. It's the same song, just more original. Actually there are other versions by Lou Johnson and RB Greaves, which I've never heard.....yet.

Patti LaBelle also did a nice one, which reached #125 in 1967. Definitely a "deep cut"! I wonder if "Bubbling Under" songs ever get tested. : I'm sure almost all of them are lost to time and history, just like most of the rest of the charts. But it is nice to hear an alternate version of a song sometimes. When a new cover would hit the AT40, I always enjoyed hearing Casey's flashbacks. Earlier versions were always enlightening. Phil Collins' "You Can't Hurry Love" is fine, but it will never replace the Supremes' original. So in certain cases both should still be played.

This is gonna kill people's childhoods. Better I should tell them about the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy.

No. They're adults. They have a right to know.

Remember how I told you that the Billboard Hot 100 was based on wholesale product shipped to distributors and record stores and how, in a record's first week on the Hot 100, the odds were overwhelming that not a single copy had been sold at retail...because it took a few days in that pre-FedEx time to fulfill orders and for them to arrive?

Well, songs that peaked below the Hot 100.........did worse.

The "Bubbling Under" chart was a clever way for Billboard to make money off even more records...simply by creating one more chart. Labels now had another handful of records with chart numbers they could buy trade ads for in an attempt to get wholesale orders and maybe... long shot, but maybe...retail sales.

Some stores, hoping to be ahead of the pack, or indulging their owners' taste in music, might have taken the bait with a minimum order of 5 copies. And some songs did move from "Bubbling Under" to the Hot 100.

Whether any of the records that peaked on the "Bubbling Under" chart sold at retail, God only knows.
But what you're looking at is a batch of records that couldn't even meet the low bar of making it to #100.

 

[semoochie]

I'd forgotten all about the R.B. Greaves version and despite worldwide fame, Dionne Warwick's version didn't do very well on the charts, which surprises me because anyone one on the planet in the 60s knows that song and if they know who Dionne Warwick is and gave it any thought, thinks it's one of her biggest hits! I don't think Bacharach/David really hurt her carreer! I always wondered about the "Bubbling Under" chart. It seemed like songs would just sit there, from one week to the next. That explains quite a lot, thanks! I haven't looked at a print version of Billboard in years. When did they drop it or is it still there?

 

[michael hagerty]

I'd forgotten all about the R.B. Greaves version and despite worldwide fame, Dionne Warwick's version didn't do very well on the charts, which surprises me because anyone one on the planet in the 60s knows that song and if they know who Dionne Warwick is and gave it any thought, thinks it's one of her biggest hits!

I don't know anyone who thinks that. It was a stiff (#65) B-side of a stiff (#33) A-side ("Who Is Gonna Love Me") that almost no one played at a time when Dionne was all over the radio.

The R.B. Greaves stiffed at #27, but it got airplay on major stations.

I don't think Bacharach/David really hurt her carreer!

They made her career. Take away their songs and what's left? And what's the likelihood that those would have done as well without Dionne's past success to give them visibility?

I always wondered about the "Bubbling Under" chart. It seemed like songs would just sit there, from one week to the next. That explains quite a lot, thanks! I haven't looked at a print version of Billboard in years. When did they drop it or is it still there?

I don't know if there's still a "bubbling under" chart or not. I'll look next time I'm at the library.

 

[oldies76]

I don't know if there's still a "bubbling under" chart or not. I'll look next time I'm at the library.

There is as of 2011, according to a Joel Whitburn book I have. Positions 100 to 125

 

[OldNumber7]

Whether any of the records that peaked on the "Bubbling Under" chart sold at retail, God only knows.
But what you're looking at is a batch of records that couldn't even meet the low bar of making it to #100.

I'll defer to the folks at home with the book, but didn't a 1963 Beatles release (maybe "Please, Please Me" or "From Me to You"?) get to the Bubbling Under chart (apparently on the basis of airplay from a single Chicago or LA station). That's the story I always heard, anyway. And does that mean some kids actually bought the record months before Beatlemania?

 

[semoochie]

I don't know what the deal was. Maybe, it was one of those songs that television picked up but I mentioned it to my wife and I might as well have said "Hard Day's Night" or "Help", as far as familiarity was concerned! Anyway, that's just it. I never go to the library anymore but used to go all the time, pre-internet. One time, I was in the periodical department and without thinking it through, walked up to two beautiful girls and said, "Pardon me, I'm looking for Variety."! It's probably a good thing that I don't go anymore.

 

[michael hagerty]

Whether any of the records that peaked on the "Bubbling Under" chart sold at retail, God only knows.
But what you're looking at is a batch of records that couldn't even meet the low bar of making it to #100.

I'll defer to the folks at home with the book, but didn't a 1963 Beatles release (maybe "Please, Please Me" or "From Me to You"?) get to the Bubbling Under chart (apparently on the basis of airplay from a single Chicago or LA station). That's the story I always heard, anyway. And does that mean some kids actually bought the record months before Beatlemania?

A Billboard article on the Beatles 40th anniversary (February 7, 2004) says only that EMI licensed some of the singles to Swan and Vee-Jay and they all flopped, citing "From Me To You" as doing the best, peaking at #116.

Airplay on KRLA, Los Angeles is credited with that. It aired for six weeks and only made #32 on the KRLA Tune-Dex. KRLA's chart was 50 records, so that probably means some sales action in Los Angeles.

 

[semoochie]

I have a friend, with a copy or "She Loves You" that I believe is on "Swan". I don't know where he got it.

 

[michael hagerty]

I have a friend, with a copy or "She Loves You" that I believe is on "Swan". I don't know where he got it.

"She Loves You" was a million-seller on Swan. EMI had licensed it to them the year before the Beatles broke big in the US.

 

[radioman148]

Whether any of the records that peaked on the "Bubbling Under" chart sold at retail, God only knows.
But what you're looking at is a batch of records that couldn't even meet the low bar of making it to #100.

I'll defer to the folks at home with the book, but didn't a 1963 Beatles release (maybe "Please, Please Me" or "From Me to You"?) get to the Bubbling Under chart (apparently on the basis of airplay from a single Chicago or LA station). That's the story I always heard, anyway. And does that mean some kids actually bought the record months before Beatlemania?

"Please Please Me" did chart on WLS in March 1963 for 3 weeks. This was 11 months before "Beatlemania" officially hit in the US.
Dick Biondi is acknowledged as the first DJ to play a Beatles record in the US.
There is an aircheck on You Tube of Biondi playing it on WLS in February 1963 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2W26aSVEwxY

 

[semoochie]

He didn't really talk up the song, more like it had been played several times. It was as if there was nothing special about it, which seems really funny, in retrospect!

 

[radioman148]

The new stuff on the bottom of the WLS survey were generally played first on Biondi's show.

 

[OldNumber7]

Whether any of the records that peaked on the "Bubbling Under" chart sold at retail, God only knows.
But what you're looking at is a batch of records that couldn't even meet the low bar of making it to #100.

I'll defer to the folks at home with the book, but didn't a 1963 Beatles release (maybe "Please, Please Me" or "From Me to You"?) get to the Bubbling Under chart (apparently on the basis of airplay from a single Chicago or LA station). That's the story I always heard, anyway. And does that mean some kids actually bought the record months before Beatlemania?

"Please Please Me" did chart on WLS in March 1963 for 3 weeks. This was 11 months before "Beatlemania" officially hit in the US.
Dick Biondi is acknowledged as the first DJ to play a Beatles record in the US.
There is an aircheck on You Tube of Biondi playing it on WLS in February 1963 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2W26aSVEwxY

Astonishing. They were THIS close to making it, it didn't happen, then the stars aligned and it was gigantic. It's actually not an uncommon story in show business, but fascinating nonetheless.

 

[firepoint525]

I believe that Capitol's then-A&R guy (whose name escapes me now) was behind the failure of the Beatles to "make it" stateside in '63. The buzz over the Beatles got so big that the president of Capitol asked to hear some of their material, and then basically overruled him. This is all in Bruce Spivey's books about Beatlemania from the American point of view.

 

[semoochie]

Now that I've heard the song played in context, it clearly wasn't the vehicle to catapult them to fame. "She Loves You" could have worked.

 

[CTListener]

Now that I've heard the song played in context, it clearly wasn't the vehicle to catapult them to fame. "She Loves You" could have worked.

"Yeah, yeah, yeah" certainly gave the media a handy line to use when ridiculing the Beatles and their fans. I've always thought the fantastic intro of "I Wanna Hold Your Hand" was an absolutely perfect way to break the act on US radio. Amazing to me that a mild effort like "Love Me Do" got the ball rolling in the UK.

 

[firepoint525]

"Love Me Do" only reached #17 in the UK. If we are to believe Michael Hagerty, then this might have actually been considered a "stiff." (Not sure if logic applied to American charts works with UK charts, or not.) At any rate, it is fairly well-known that Brian Epstein bought up multiple copies of the 45 in order to help inflate its sales figures. Apparently, British charts were, at least, in part, sales based. Great guy, that Brian Epstein. The downside to doing that is that he might have taken those copies of that 45 out of circulation, thus making it tougher to find the 45 in the stores. With a new group, you don't really want that. You want enough supply of the record available there to meet the demand.

Referencing another thread here, apparently it was a clip of "She Loves You" that Jack Paar showed on his TV show in early '64 (about a month before the appearance on Sullivan). Supposedly, the "yeah yeah yeah" is what the viewers remembered most about the group, more so than even their name!

 

[michael hagerty]

"Love Me Do" only reached #17 in the UK. If we are to believe Michael Hagerty, then this might have actually been considered a "stiff." (Not sure if logic applied to American charts works with UK charts, or not.) At any rate, it is fairly well-known that Brian Epstein bought up multiple copies of the 45 in order to help inflate its sales figures. Apparently, British charts were, at least, in part, sales based. Great guy, that Brian Epstein. The downside to doing that is that he might have taken those copies of that 45 out of circulation, thus making it tougher to find the 45 in the stores. With a new group, you don't really want that. You want enough supply of the record available there to meet the demand.

Referencing another thread here, apparently it was a clip of "She Loves You" that Jack Paar showed on his TV show in early '64 (about a month before the appearance on Sullivan). Supposedly, the "yeah yeah yeah" is what the viewers remembered most about the group, more so than even their name!

Even if the UK charts were based on wholesale (and I don't know), the only strategy Brian could use without implicating EMI (a very strait laced company in those days) would be to buy up retail copies and hope for those stores to re-stock, boosting wholesale numbers. As you say, though, that strategy runs the risk that in the interim (or if the store for whatever reason doesn't re-order), legitimate sales will be lost.

 

[CTListener]

Referencing another thread here, apparently it was a clip of "She Loves You" that Jack Paar showed on his TV show in early '64 (about a month before the appearance on Sullivan). Supposedly, the "yeah yeah yeah" is what the viewers remembered most about the group, more so than even their name!

I wonder if Epstein got a scientifically selected few dozen people together in an auditorium, played them various refrains, and found that "Yeah, yeah, yeah" tested best! ;D

 

[firepoint525]

"Love Me Do" only reached #17 in the UK. If we are to believe Michael Hagerty, then this might have actually been considered a "stiff." (Not sure if logic applied to American charts works with UK charts, or not.) At any rate, it is fairly well-known that Brian Epstein bought up multiple copies of the 45 in order to help inflate its sales figures. Apparently, British charts were, at least, in part, sales based. Great guy, that Brian Epstein. The downside to doing that is that he might have taken those copies of that 45 out of circulation, thus making it tougher to find the 45 in the stores. With a new group, you don't really want that. You want enough supply of the record available there to meet the demand.

Even if the UK charts were based on wholesale (and I don't know), the only strategy Brian could use without implicating EMI (a very strait laced company in those days) would be to buy up retail copies and hope for those stores to re-stock, boosting wholesale numbers. As you say, though, that strategy runs the risk that in the interim (or if the store for whatever reason doesn't re-order), legitimate sales will be lost.

That was, kinda sorta, what I was suggesting here. It seems to me that if the charts measure wholesale orders rather than retail sales, it would be a lot like the way that we elect the president. None of you (unless you are an elector) have ever voted directly for a president. Instead, you vote for a slate of electors, who, in turn, meet about a month after the election, and THEY cast the direct vote for the president. In my state (Tennessee), we have 11 electors, for our nine congressional districts, plus our two U.S. senators.

Getting this back on topic, I am curious about the "implicating EMI" bit. Could what Brian did be considered a form of payola? I was also curious if anyone ever found a stash of Beatles 45s (probably almost entirely "Love Me Do"s) in his personal possessions after he died, or if maybe he gave most of them to radio stations as promotions. It would seem to me that radio stations likely got their music DIRECTLY from the record companies.