Classic Hits: Evolution or Revolution?

[firepoint525]

He didn't really talk up the song, more like it had been played several times. It was as if there was nothing special about it, which seems really funny, in retrospect!

Brings up another interesting question. Since this was recorded in Delaware, it HAD to have been done at night. No way that the WLS signal could have been heard in Delaware during the daytime. Radioman says that Biondi usually had the honor of playing the new stuff first, but maybe, just maybe, this wasn't even HIS first time to play the fab four. I am curious about what day (of the week) that new material was typically released, when it might reach the radio station, etc. With this clip, we don't have an exact day or date (unless I missed it), and it is altogether possible that it might also have played earlier in the day, when the listener in Delaware could not have taped it. At any rate, it is great, because it is history being made!

 

[michael hagerty]

"Love Me Do" only reached #17 in the UK. If we are to believe Michael Hagerty, then this might have actually been considered a "stiff." (Not sure if logic applied to American charts works with UK charts, or not.) At any rate, it is fairly well-known that Brian Epstein bought up multiple copies of the 45 in order to help inflate its sales figures. Apparently, British charts were, at least, in part, sales based. Great guy, that Brian Epstein. The downside to doing that is that he might have taken those copies of that 45 out of circulation, thus making it tougher to find the 45 in the stores. With a new group, you don't really want that. You want enough supply of the record available there to meet the demand.

Even if the UK charts were based on wholesale (and I don't know), the only strategy Brian could use without implicating EMI (a very strait laced company in those days) would be to buy up retail copies and hope for those stores to re-stock, boosting wholesale numbers. As you say, though, that strategy runs the risk that in the interim (or if the store for whatever reason doesn't re-order), legitimate sales will be lost.

That was, kinda sorta, what I was suggesting here. It seems to me that if the charts measure wholesale orders rather than retail sales, it would be a lot like the way that we elect the president. None of you (unless you are an elector) have ever voted directly for a president. Instead, you vote for a slate of electors, who, in turn, meet about a month after the election, and THEY cast the direct vote for the president. In my state (Tennessee), we have 11 electors, for our nine congressional districts, plus our two U.S. senators.

Getting this back on topic, I am curious about the "implicating EMI" bit. Could what Brian did be considered a form of payola? I was also curious if anyone ever found a stash of Beatles 45s (probably almost entirely "Love Me Do"s) in his personal possessions after he died, or if maybe he gave most of them to radio stations as promotions. It would seem to me that radio stations likely got their music DIRECTLY from the record companies.

Payola, no.

I don't know UK law, but I imagine it's legal for an individual to buy as many copies of a record as he or she likes, even if she has a business interest in the record. He or she is diluting their profits.

It's probably even legal for a company, but the appearance and implication would be devastating. EMI (especially then) would never condone such a thing. Better to let a record fail than to tarnish the reputation.

 

[Biondi4Mayor]

He didn't really talk up the song, more like it had been played several times. It was as if there was nothing special about it, which seems really funny, in retrospect!

Brings up another interesting question. Since this was recorded in Delaware, it HAD to have been done at night. No way that the WLS signal could have been heard in Delaware during the daytime. Radioman says that Biondi usually had the honor of playing the new stuff first, but maybe, just maybe, this wasn't even HIS first time to play the fab four. I am curious about what day (of the week) that new material was typically released, when it might reach the radio station, etc. With this clip, we don't have an exact day or date (unless I missed it), and it is altogether possible that it might also have played earlier in the day, when the listener in Delaware could not have taped it. At any rate, it is great, because it is history being made!

Hard to answer your particular question, however Chicago-Area based ForgottenHits.com has done extensive research and interviewing to determine "The First Beatles Spin In America". It can be read here -
http://www.forgottenhits.com/who_played_the_very_first_beatles_record_in_america

Interesting stuff indeed!
George Harrison in Downstate Illinois??? Dick Biondi vs the other claims. Check it out!

 

[radioman148]

According to this poster it was Feb 23, 1963 that Dick Biondi played "Please Please Me" on WLS.

http://www.rawfoodsupport.com/read.php?11,221468

 

[Thomps2525]

I posted these comments in the Los Angeles forum but I realize that there is a world that exists apart from Los Angeles. (Pretty magnanimous of me to admit, eh?) Here, for your amazement and amusement, is how the classic hits format has evolved for two southern California stations:

In January 2006, Jhani Kaye, program director of adult contemporary KOST, moved to KRTH and immediately made major changes to the playlist, which at one time had shrunk to only 330 regularly-played titles. He dropped almost all of the pre-1964 songs---among the few that remained were Shout, Tequila, La Bamba and You Send Me---and added a few hundred songs from the 1970s-80s plus I Could Fall In Love from 1995 and Smooth from 1999. Kaye also began playing album versions of songs instead of the single edits. KRTH was no longer an oldies station; it became "classic hits." In a typical hour now, half of the songs are from the '70s, one fourth are from the '60s and one fourth are from the '80s.

About the same time, KOLA in San Bernardino evolved from "oldies" to "classic hits." And now, KOLA has evolved even further: all of the pre-1970 songs are gone. The playlist is now 1970s-80s-90s. Yes indeedy, '90s. KOLA now plays Iris (1998), Hero (1993), Torn (1998), Santeria (1997), Smooth (1999), Under The Bridge (1992), Give Me One Reason (1996), Every Morning (1999), Quit Playing Games (1997), Mambo No. 5 (1999), Only Wanna Be With You (1995), You're Still The One (1998), and many others.

The earliest Beatles songs are now 50 years old. The decade of the '60s produced what many consider to be the best music of all time, but those songs have been played to death for the past 40 years and, sadly, a lot of people who were buying records in the '60s are dying. Will KRTH someday follow KOLA and drop all the 1960s hits? Are classic hits stations in other cities adding 1980s-90s music? Do any still play 1950s and early '60s? What is the future of oldies radio? Will songs by Justin Bieber and Lady GaGa someday be "classic hits"? Yikes!

 

[CTListener]

The earliest Beatles songs are now 50 years old. The decade of the '60s produced what many consider to be the best music of all time, but those songs have been played to death for the past 40 years and, sadly, a lot of people who were buying records in the '60s are dying. Will KRTH someday follow KOLA and drop all the 1960s hits? Are classic hits stations in other cities adding 1980s-90s music? Do any still play 1950s and early '60s? What is the future of oldies radio? Will songs by Justin Bieber and Lady GaGa someday be "classic hits"? Yikes!

You should know the answer by now: The format will continue to chase a moving target -- the upper end of 25-54. Ad agencies don't want 55+ and since most of the advertising in major markets consists of agency buys, you're not going to hear pre-British Invasion music again, and the Beatles will be phased out before the next decade begins. Unless a nostalgic Music of Your Life format takes root on FM the way it did on AM a couple of decades ago (before AM listening levels dropped disastrously and most stations on the band went to talk, sports or leased religion or ethnic), those songs will be lost in even the lesser markets by the middle of the next decade. Nobody wants a station with a core audience age of 70; that is pure economic suicide.

 

[michael hagerty]

The earliest Beatles songs are now 50 years old. The decade of the '60s produced what many consider to be the best music of all time, but those songs have been played to death for the past 40 years and, sadly, a lot of people who were buying records in the '60s are dying. Will KRTH someday follow KOLA and drop all the 1960s hits? Are classic hits stations in other cities adding 1980s-90s music? Do any still play 1950s and early '60s? What is the future of oldies radio? Will songs by Justin Bieber and Lady GaGa someday be "classic hits"? Yikes!

You should know the answer by now: The format will continue to chase a moving target -- the upper end of 25-54. Ad agencies don't want 55+ and since most of the advertising in major markets consists of agency buys, you're not going to hear pre-British Invasion music again, and the Beatles will be phased out before the next decade begins. Unless a nostalgic Music of Your Life format takes root on FM the way it did on AM a couple of decades ago (before AM listening levels dropped disastrously and most stations on the band went to talk, sports or leased religion or ethnic), those songs will be lost in even the lesser markets by the middle of the next decade. Nobody wants a station with a core audience age of 70; that is pure economic suicide.

Music Of Your Life itself was targeting 45-54 when it launched. The oldest records it played were 40 years old. Most were 20-30 (this is the equivalent of playing music from 1973-1993 today).

And they are a classic example of how playing the oldest records on the radio tends to get you an older audience than you intended...MOYL was the least objectionable alternative for everyone above that age. So while some 50 year olds listened to MOYL some of the time, ALL the 70, 80 and 90 year olds listened to MOYL all of the time...which made their actual demos extremely top-heavy.

It's the same with pre-Beatles music. Yeah, you'll get some 50-year olds, but there'll be more 70 year olds. And a young-thinking 30-something who liked the Beatles when they first hit...is an 80-something today.

 

[CTListener]

The earliest Beatles songs are now 50 years old. The decade of the '60s produced what many consider to be the best music of all time, but those songs have been played to death for the past 40 years and, sadly, a lot of people who were buying records in the '60s are dying. Will KRTH someday follow KOLA and drop all the 1960s hits? Are classic hits stations in other cities adding 1980s-90s music? Do any still play 1950s and early '60s? What is the future of oldies radio? Will songs by Justin Bieber and Lady GaGa someday be "classic hits"? Yikes!

You should know the answer by now: The format will continue to chase a moving target -- the upper end of 25-54. Ad agencies don't want 55+ and since most of the advertising in major markets consists of agency buys, you're not going to hear pre-British Invasion music again, and the Beatles will be phased out before the next decade begins. Unless a nostalgic Music of Your Life format takes root on FM the way it did on AM a couple of decades ago (before AM listening levels dropped disastrously and most stations on the band went to talk, sports or leased religion or ethnic), those songs will be lost in even the lesser markets by the middle of the next decade. Nobody wants a station with a core audience age of 70; that is pure economic suicide.

Music Of Your Life itself was targeting 45-54 when it launched. The oldest records it played were 40 years old. Most were 20-30 (this is the equivalent of playing music from 1973-1993 today).

And they are a classic example of how playing the oldest records on the radio tends to get you an older audience than you intended...MOYL was the least objectionable alternative for everyone above that age. So while some 50 year olds listened to MOYL some of the time, ALL the 70, 80 and 90 year olds listened to MOYL all of the time...which made their actual demos extremely top-heavy.

It's the same with pre-Beatles music. Yeah, you'll get some 50-year olds, but there'll be more 70 year olds. And a young-thinking 30-something who liked the Beatles when they first hit...is an 80-something today.

Although MOYL's 20- to 40-year-old records in 1990 were more along the lines of "Michelle" and "Time in a Bottle" than, say, "Brown Sugar" and "Takin' Care of Business." The only 45-54s listening to MOYL were the minority who never liked rock 'n' roll much to begin with. Many of us who grew up in the '60s will remember the compromises we had to make with our parents on long car trips -- we usually wound up with the car radio set to a contemporary-leaning MOR station because dad couldn't stand rock 'n' roll and we couldn't stand '40s and '50s crooners.

 

[firepoint525]

You should know the answer by now: The format will continue to chase a moving target -- the upper end of 25-54. Ad agencies don't want 55+ and since most of the advertising in major markets consists of agency buys, you're not going to hear pre-British Invasion music again, and the Beatles will be phased out before the next decade begins.

Let's stop kidding ourselves about this "25-54" b.s. I am 49, and advertisers already do not want me, because, as some of you have put it, I am already "too close" to 55. : They don't even want anything close to the double-nickel. As Michael puts it, they are aiming for the middle of that age group, not necessarily the "upper" end, as you put it. Unless it's the upper income end, of course! ;D

Unless a nostalgic Music of Your Life format takes root on FM the way it did on AM a couple of decades ago (before AM listening levels dropped disastrously and most stations on the band went to talk, sports or leased religion or ethnic), those songs will be lost in even the lesser markets by the middle of the next decade. Nobody wants a station with a core audience age of 70; that is pure economic suicide.

WSM-AM, Nashville, TN. My parents listen to it. My dad is 82; my mother is 74.

 

[firepoint525]

About the same time, KOLA in San Bernardino evolved from "oldies" to "classic hits." And now, KOLA has evolved even further: all of the pre-1970 songs are gone. The playlist is now 1970s-80s-90s. Yes indeedy, '90s. KOLA now plays Iris (1998), Hero (1993), Torn (1998), Santeria (1997), Smooth (1999), Under The Bridge (1992), Give Me One Reason (1996), Every Morning (1999), Quit Playing Games (1997), Mambo No. 5 (1999), Only Wanna Be With You (1995), You're Still The One (1998), and many others.

Hey, semoochie, there is the answer to your question from 85 pages ago! Thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen, we can all go home now. Y'all drive safe going home now!

 

[davideduardo]

Let's stop kidding ourselves about this "25-54" b.s. I am 49, and advertisers already do not want me, because, as some of you have put it, I am already "too close" to 55. : They don't even want anything close to the double-nickel. As Michael puts it, they are aiming for the middle of that age group, not necessarily the "upper" end, as you put it.

Advertisers aim for maximum and frequency reach no matter what they buy.

Let's say a buy is up for 25-54. The Cost Per Point goal for each market is set. The agency has the budget to buy 3 deep, so they look for, typically a station leaning 25-34, one maximizing 35-44 and one delivering 45-54. Since all stations have spillage outside the core target, the agency will get a nice optimized buy with three stations. If they want to increase reach, they would have too add stations, doing real r&f calculations on the buy again.

Of course, there are occasions where a good theoretical buy does not work because one or more of the stations won't accept the CPP goal and takes a pass on the business.

If 45-54 did not count, stations like WTOP, WINS, WCBS, KFI, WBBM, WLTW and WFAN would not be in the top nten national billers.

 

[Thomps2525]

On the previous page, Mister firepoint said that Mister semoochie's thread-beginning questions have been answered by KOLA's new format. Actually it's much too soon to know. We'll have to wait a year or more to see if KOLA's ratings improve. Semoochie asked, "Do you think that a format spanning from 1973-90 can be compatible and attract an audience? Would it sound too much like Adult Hits?" How about: "Maybe" and "Yes." Right now KOLA is like a hybrid of a classic-rock station (minus the 1960s) and an adult contemporary station and I wonder if it will attract a large audience. The fans of Aerosmith and Bon Jovi may not want to hear Tracy Chapman and Shania Twain...and the fans of Richard Marx and Gloria Estefan may not want to hear INXS and Foreigner.

 

[oldies76]

and the Beatles will be phased out before the next decade begins.

Nonsense. Some of the lesser played tunes, maybe, but key songs like "I Wanna Hold Your Hand", "Hey Jude" and "Hello Goodbye"..etc.. will be around for sometime to come. I still hear "Rock Around the Clock" in 2013 and you'll hear it in 2023.

 

[Thomps2525]

Rock Around The Clock was released in May of 1954 and became a number-one hit a year later when it was featured in the movie Blackboard Jungle. In 1974-75, the song was used as the theme song of ABC's new sitcom Happy Days, which was set in the late 1950s. But that song hasn't been played on any southern California stations for several years. In fact, hardly any pre-1964 songs get played anymore. KOLA, which a few years ago dropped all the 1950s hits, has now dropped all the '60s music too. It's hard to imagine a day when no radio stations are playing the Beatles and Rolling Stones and Monkees and Kinks and Supremes and Four Tops...although ten years ago I didn't foresee a day when oldies radio would ignore Chuck Berry and Buddy Holly and Bill Haley and Little Richard and Ricky Nelson and Brenda Lee. :-\

 

[davideduardo]

Actually it's much too soon to know. We'll have to wait a year or more to see if KOLA's ratings improve.

Riverside / San Bernardino is a PPM market. We will see some significant indications in the first two books and by the time there are 6 books, or sometime in September or October, the overall effect should be seen with some considerable clarity.

 

[Thomps2525]

David, do you think KOLA will have to build an entirely new audience...or do you think a lot of the fans of '60s-'70s music will continue listening? I don't imagine there are a lot of people who like the majority of music from the '60s and the '90s.

 

[davideduardo]

David, do you think KOLA will have to build an entirely new audience...or do you think a lot of the fans of '60s-'70s music will continue listening? I don't imagine there are a lot of people who like the majority of music from the '60s and the '90s.

If it performs as designed, they will shed many of the 55+ listeners quite quickly, while building over a longer time a base with more 40-54 year olds who did not use the station in the past due to the "geezer songs".

 

[CTListener]

David, do you think KOLA will have to build an entirely new audience...or do you think a lot of the fans of '60s-'70s music will continue listening? I don't imagine there are a lot of people who like the majority of music from the '60s and the '90s.

If it performs as designed, they will shed many of the 55+ listeners quite quickly, while building over a longer time a base with more 40-54 year olds who did not use the station in the past due to the "geezer songs".

I'll bet that's what's happened to WDRC-FM here in Connecticut. It jettisoned most of its '60s titles, added a bunch more '80s songs and saw its 6+ number go from the mid-6's to the low 9's in just two books. Anecdotal evidence: My barber is in her early 40s. She used to have AC WRCH on in the shop, but has recently switched to DRC-FM. I asked her about it last time I was there -- we were laughing about an "oldies" staion playing "She Bop" -- and she said, "I love every song they play." And they're not playing "There's a Kind of Hush" or "Don't Be Cruel" anymore.

 

[michael hagerty]

David, do you think KOLA will have to build an entirely new audience...or do you think a lot of the fans of '60s-'70s music will continue listening? I don't imagine there are a lot of people who like the majority of music from the '60s and the '90s.

If it performs as designed, they will shed many of the 55+ listeners quite quickly, while building over a longer time a base with more 40-54 year olds who did not use the station in the past due to the "geezer songs".

I'll bet that's what's happened to WDRC-FM here in Connecticut. It jettisoned most of its '60s titles, added a bunch more '80s songs and saw its 6+ number go from the mid-6's to the low 9's in just two books. Anecdotal evidence: My barber is in her early 40s. She used to have AC WRCH on in the shop, but has recently switched to DRC-FM. I asked her about it last time I was there -- we were laughing about an "oldies" staion playing "She Bop" -- and she said, "I love every song they play." And they're not playing "There's a Kind of Hush" or "Don't Be Cruel" anymore.

And......bingo.


Especially when dealing with female listeners, it is not about labels...it's about loving the music.

And for crying out loud, if a 29-year old song isn't an "oldie", what the hell is?

 

[michael hagerty]

Not to put too fine a point on it, but:

When "She Bop" was a current, I was dating a girl who was one year out of college.


She's 52 now.