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Ford Reconsiders, Now Keeping AM Radio
- Thread starter DavidEduardo
- Start date
As I said earlier in this thread, the proposed legislation is still active, and the House will hold hearings on it next week:
www.insideradio.com
With AM Radio Hearing Set For June 6, Lawmakers Anxious To Get Answers From Automakers.
House Communications Subcommittee Chairman Bob Latta (R-OH) says he’s hesitant to support an AM radio mandate in vehicles until lawmakers get some answers from the car companies. Latta, one of
Regarding @DavidEduardo 's display of Gates peak limiters....
The answer is: none of the above, though my college station had a Sta-Level that was used in the news studio, which was our mono studio.
The KWRE device had a large light that would blink on peaks and also cause a clicking noise. This was not the same peak light as was on the modulation monitor which, miracles of miracles, was actuallly an up-to-date Belar monitor.
I went looking through some of the Gates catalogs at worldradiohistory and didn't see anything similar. There were some units integrated within transmitters in those catalogs. What I recall is a separate device, though I may have misdated it judging by the catalogs - it looked much older than the Level Devil devices. Those catalogs indicate that peak limiters were first available in the 1940s. KWRE went on the air in 1949 - possibly the device I remember was original to that time.
The longtime traffic manager at KWRE told me that there were upgrades in the early 1960s before the station was sold to Vern Kaspar, who subsequently kind of milked it. The station went up from 500 to 1000 watts in 1961.
The answer is: none of the above, though my college station had a Sta-Level that was used in the news studio, which was our mono studio.
The KWRE device had a large light that would blink on peaks and also cause a clicking noise. This was not the same peak light as was on the modulation monitor which, miracles of miracles, was actuallly an up-to-date Belar monitor.
I went looking through some of the Gates catalogs at worldradiohistory and didn't see anything similar. There were some units integrated within transmitters in those catalogs. What I recall is a separate device, though I may have misdated it judging by the catalogs - it looked much older than the Level Devil devices. Those catalogs indicate that peak limiters were first available in the 1940s. KWRE went on the air in 1949 - possibly the device I remember was original to that time.
The longtime traffic manager at KWRE told me that there were upgrades in the early 1960s before the station was sold to Vern Kaspar, who subsequently kind of milked it. The station went up from 500 to 1000 watts in 1961.
Some early AM processors used a relay to flip the polarity of the audio to make the positive peaks higher than the negative peaks. Maybe that's what you were hearing?
Could be. I didn't think much of the equipment dated to 1949, the station's sign-on year, but I could be wrong. I wish I remembered more about it.
But positive peaks were not allowed to exceed 100% "back in the day". I'm trying to remember when we were allowed higher positives, and I keep thinking it was sometime in the later 1980's.
Re: radio audio processing and stereo:
The stereo effect is carried by amplitude and phase differences between the Left and Right channels, radio audio processing reduces the amplitude variations in the Left and Right channels and I don't know what it does to the phase differences between L & R.
Anyone done any critical listening to stereo (probably classical) music after radio audio processing, maybe A/Bing it with the original unprocessed stereo music to see if the stereo effect is greatly compromised by the processing?
Kirk Bayne
The stereo effect is carried by amplitude and phase differences between the Left and Right channels, radio audio processing reduces the amplitude variations in the Left and Right channels and I don't know what it does to the phase differences between L & R.
Anyone done any critical listening to stereo (probably classical) music after radio audio processing, maybe A/Bing it with the original unprocessed stereo music to see if the stereo effect is greatly compromised by the processing?
Kirk Bayne
The CBS Volumax 4000 AM processor, introduced in 1970, offered a choice of 100%, 120%, or 300% positive modulation:
It was the Gates Solid Statesman limiter, from 1968, which had the peak flipping relay and a choice of 100%, 110%, or 120% positive modulation:
We won't let these cars kill the AM radio star
We won't let these cars kill the AM radio star. Removing stations from new vehicles would jeopardize emergency signals and harm more than 80 million listeners.
www.foxnews.com
And in 2018, over 1 million American jobs were tied to local radio and $478 billion to the GDP.
I still think classifying AM radio (reception) as part of the baseline in vehicle safety equip. is the way to go about dealing with this issue.
Kirk Bayne
That's not what this proposed law does.
But definitely not to AM radio.^^^We won't let these cars kill the AM radio star
We won't let these cars kill the AM radio star. Removing stations from new vehicles would jeopardize emergency signals and harm more than 80 million listeners.
And in 2018, over 1 million American jobs were tied to local radio and $478 billion to the GDP.
(And that figure is laden with hyperbole)
I'm surprised to learn the retired engineer for KMOX likes AM radio. Knock me over with a feather, that.😯
It's a decent summary. I was laughing heartily at the assertion that we might need the hardened studio and TX facility installed at KMOX to broadcast an Amber Alert. If we have an EMP some day and KMOX is the last means of communication, the last thing state officials are going to be worried about is the whereabouts of a child from Poplar Bluff, Mo.
It's a decent summary. I was laughing heartily at the assertion that we might need the hardened studio and TX facility installed at KMOX to broadcast an Amber Alert. If we have an EMP some day and KMOX is the last means of communication, the last thing state officials are going to be worried about is the whereabouts of a child from Poplar Bluff, Mo.
Totally true. This whole apocalyptic thinking of if this and what if..that?-Is mainly driven by people who grew up through the cold war when the only wireless communications the public had access to was ham/CB radio, and broadcasting. What they fail to understand outside their generational 'worry-bubble' is; generations over the past two decades since, rely on their smartphone for everything in their lifestyle, including communications from public officials and news. Much of that comes via social media sites.
If broadcast radio is available during an emergency, more is always better, especially when it comes to reaching senior citizens. But to spend a bunch of taxpayer dollars to harden some AM station, just in case N. Korea might shoot a nuke at St. Louis? Come on, really? Honestly, if something like that were to happen, there are bigger things to worry about than whether the general public has their Radio Shack AM/FM portable with fresh batteries. Which they don't.
Sorry to dig up an older thread, but this anecdote I have underlines perfectly why radio is so important (disregard AM vs FM for a moment, as for the purposes of this post, they're both equal):
So, I'm driving home today, and I turn on the radio to KCBS (I listened on AM, but FM probably would've worked too), which was reporting on a power outage that is affecting areas near my house.
On my way through that area, I see that virtually everything is dark.
Fortunately, my house is unaffected, but guess what? No cell service!
What if, hypothetically, I were in a car that only allowed for cell-based digital streaming from the Internet, and there were no longer any analog OTA stations to tune into? I wouldn't have been able to hear any news at all! And no cell service means I can't look it up or call anyone either.
This once again proves my point that when a widespread problem arises that affects the power grid and related infrastructure, cell phones are among the first to go offline. Had this been an emergency (an evacuation from a wildfire, say), how would anyone be able to get any information? I got lucky and still have power, so I can look such things up while at home, but what if my power was out, as it is for the majority of the city a couple miles west? Without power, their computers and WiFi are probably out. Cell service is out too evidently, so what's left?
Uh-huh....
c
So, I'm driving home today, and I turn on the radio to KCBS (I listened on AM, but FM probably would've worked too), which was reporting on a power outage that is affecting areas near my house.
On my way through that area, I see that virtually everything is dark.
Fortunately, my house is unaffected, but guess what? No cell service!
What if, hypothetically, I were in a car that only allowed for cell-based digital streaming from the Internet, and there were no longer any analog OTA stations to tune into? I wouldn't have been able to hear any news at all! And no cell service means I can't look it up or call anyone either.
This once again proves my point that when a widespread problem arises that affects the power grid and related infrastructure, cell phones are among the first to go offline. Had this been an emergency (an evacuation from a wildfire, say), how would anyone be able to get any information? I got lucky and still have power, so I can look such things up while at home, but what if my power was out, as it is for the majority of the city a couple miles west? Without power, their computers and WiFi are probably out. Cell service is out too evidently, so what's left?
Uh-huh....
c
IIRC, there were 25 clear channel 50kW omni day & night AM stations set up in the early days of radio to try to cover most of the USA with radio signals.
What is the approximate total yearly cost of operating a 50kW omni AM station now - is it that much money considering how much is spent on other safety systems (I'm thinking of Government requirements to have air bags in vehicles etc.)?
Kirk Bayne
What is the approximate total yearly cost of operating a 50kW omni AM station now - is it that much money considering how much is spent on other safety systems (I'm thinking of Government requirements to have air bags in vehicles etc.)?
Kirk Bayne
I'm not sure that any radio stations operated day & night in the early days of radio. They usually were on for a limited number of hours.
I did a study of radio station programming during the 1930s, and I recall it wasn't unusual for a station to sign on and off several times during a day. This was from radio program listings printed in the local papers.
The first 10,000 watt or over station was WJZ New York in 1927, at 30,000 watts. Not sure if it was running that power fulltime. Most stations ran 1000 or less in that era.
The 1A clears were not st up to cover most of the USA as a plan. Companies simply applied for them and the first ones there got the prize.
For example, nobody in tiny Phoenix, AZ, wanted a 50 kw AM station. Nearly nobody wanted any station there back then. Yet today Phoenix is about to be one of the ten largest markets in the US.
No place in Florida got one. Or Alabama, Or Mississippi or Arkansas. Or Virginia, NE, ND, SD, MT, IA, CO, NM, NV, OR or WA. Or NH, VT, ME, RI, CT, DE, WV or WI. OK, KS, NE were not given one. A few of those got more limited 1B stations, but most did not.
The transmitter can run unattended, and it is mostly the power bill. Depending on the location, that might be $6 thousand to $12 thousand a month. Those stations pay their morning host more.
Other than that, there is tower lighting maintenance, building maintenance, alarms, etc.
I'm mainly interested in the yearly cost (presuming 24 hour/day 50kW omni operation) as a way to try to get some idea of the cost/benefit of keeping a few AM stations OTA (benefit is mainly an intangible, how much would an AM signal help people in trouble [provided they have been educated to use AM radio during emergency situations]).
Kirk Bayne
Kirk Bayne