KBSZ A.J.

[michael hagerty]

AJ and East Mesa are full of retirement communities, trailer parks, and retirement trailer parks. Seems like an audience that would appreciate the music they're playing, don't mind AM radio, and don't drive around much.

rockjock:

But try selling advertising with that as your audience profile.

 

[DrAkbar]

Music on Ancient Modulation©...now that's the ticket! Once again we ask the question - what's so unique about the Apache Junction/NE Pinal County lifestyle that creates a niche for this station? Nurse Jeff and I'd rather pour money into repairing the '76 Gremlin than this venture. YIKES!


© copyright 2000 AkJeff Enterprises. Los Dos de Buckeye.

 

[fybush]

Funny you say that, Senor Tuna. You look at the pattern in some of the PDF
documents on the FCC site and, instead of the usual non-directional circle
(or close to a circle) there's a "null-like" chunk to the WNW that appears
to begin maybe 10 miles out.

Is their newfangled tower able to do this, or is the pattern depiction like that
for some other "paper" reason and in reality it's still a circle?

Again a shout out to some of our engineer buddies for a tutorial here.

I'm not an engineer...I just speak the language fluently.

What you're seeing here is the difference between a pattern polar plot and a coverage map.

By definition, a single vertical tower is non-directional - it puts out the same amount of RF energy in every direction. (There's a tiny little caveat here: it's possible to do a directional signal from a single tower by hanging a parasitic element from a guy wire, but that's very rare unless you're in Mexico.)

What you're seeing on the map on the FCC document is predicted coverage, which is a function of two factors: the pattern being transmitted from the station and the effects of ground conductivity on that pattern's propagation. The "notch" you see on KBSZ's map represents a part of Arizona that has even worse predicted conductivity than the generally lousy conductivity of the rest of the region.

Different sources on the web use different types of maps. Radio-locator, for instance, takes the FCC pattern data and applies its own ground-conductivity calculations to generate approximate coverage maps. FCCinfo.com shows the pattern data independent of ground conductivity. Both types of display are useful - but it's important to understand that they're not interchangeable.

 

[michael hagerty]

Once again we ask the question - what's so unique about the Apache Junction/NE Pinal County lifestyle that creates a niche for this station?


© copyright 2000 AkJeff Enterprises. Los Dos de Buckeye.

Not much on the surface. My guess is they're hoping to create a demand by pointing out that, apart from the newspaper quoted in an earlier post, Pinal County doesn't have its own media. Trouble is, they'll have to follow through on actual service to the community.

If you had to buy that station, moving it from Wickenburg (population maybe 10,000) to Pinal County (population 373,000) makes some sense purely on an ears that can hear you basis. But you have to ask...was that station once viable in Wickenburg? The answer is yes...for decades. What happened? People decided they'd rather hear KNIX and KMLE in stereo than local people playing records and talking about what's up out Wickenburg way.

Even if it turns out that Florence, Coolidge and A.J. residents are starved for local radio, you have to make it compelling enough for them to:

a) Listen

b) Listen to AM (a special challenge for those under 50)


And then you have to find advertisers in sufficient number paying sufficiently high rates that you can afford to do more than just have a PC play those oldies, because there are a lot of better music-delivery systems than AM radio (and in exurban and rural areas, folks tend to be early adopters of stuff like iPods and satellite radio). And doing anything else costs more. There are stations billing $30 million that want to get it down to a PC playing oldies. But they're 100,000 watts on FM.

The ad agencies aren't going to play. So that means local direct. But how many truly local businesses are left and of them, how many of them will see the value in or be able to fund regular advertising....something they're not doing now and probably haven't done in decades (since KCKY in Coolidge was live and local...they're simulcasting KASA in Phoenix these days).

Look, this is the kind of radio many of us on this board say we would prefer to bland, anonymous, format-in-a-box corporate radio. I hope they succeed...but a lot has changed in terms of demographics, listening habits, and available advertisers since the last time this approach worked.

 

[DrAkbar]

(There's a tiny little caveat here: it's possible to do a directional signal from a single tower by hanging a parasitic element from a guy wire, but that's very rare unless you're in Mexico.)

It can be done en los Estados Unidos tambien, mi amigo. I've got a parasitic element here at the Buckeye Media Hut who keeps my directional signal blinking all the time. (if you catch my drift.........)

 

[johndavis]

The ad agencies aren't going to play. So that means local direct. But how many truly local businesses are left and of them, how many of them will see the value in or be able to fund regular advertising....something they're not doing now and probably haven't done in decades (since KCKY in Coolidge was live and local...they're simulcasting KASA in Phoenix these days).

I spent a few days in March hooking stuff up at a small market AM/FM combo in Kentucky. He's for the most part shaded by terrain from the closest major market so a move-in isn't in the cards (and for that matter, the major market doesn't get into his town well.) His biggest problem?

What local businesses are left?

It's not just Walmart (who now does buy radio, but they don't buy local direct). People don't open up their own sandwich shop; they buy a Subway franchise. Instead of opening their own pizza joint, they buy a Papa John's franchise. Sure, they're locally owned and operated outlets of a national chain, but as part of being a franchisee, they have to pay into a marketing fund for the region which in turn buys radio spots in the big market an hour down the highway and ignores the little town. They can't get out of paying into the marketing fund, and they don't have any say in what the regional fund buys. While they're not prohibited from making their own buy, they either don't have the money or they feel like they've just paid for advertising, so why buy from this guy?

It can't be much easier trying to live on local direct where you're sandwiched between a bunch of major market signals.

Maybe they're thinking they'll be the next KGBC, which after Ike tried playing oldies off the hard drive to Galveston and selling (not much) local direct. The Chinese government came in trying to reach Houston and leased it out 24/7 to relay Radio China International. Instead of "Keep Galveston Beaches Clean" the locals now say the calls mean "Keep Galveston Broadcasting Chinese." The signal barely hits Houston, but the checks clear.

So there's always the hope that they can sucker the Chinese into leasing it out.

 

[rockjock420]

Yes, selling it would be tough. The right person could probably sell the hell out of it. Enough so to make a profit? That would be tough. I know from my travels to that part of town there are a lot of businesses that cater to the trailer / AM audience... RV dealers/repair shops, bland, boring, flavorless restaurants. Probably a thousand "happy ending" parlors, although that may not fit the 65-death demographic they're serving.

 

[KeithE4]

Maybe they're thinking they'll be the next KGBC, which after Ike tried playing oldies off the hard drive to Galveston and selling (not much) local direct. The Chinese government came in trying to reach Houston and leased it out 24/7 to relay Radio China International. Instead of "Keep Galveston Beaches Clean" the locals now say the calls mean "Keep Galveston Broadcasting Chinese." The signal barely hits Houston, but the checks clear.

So there's always the hope that they can sucker the Chinese into leasing it out.

I don't believe there's much of a Chinese community out that way (might work for a Phoenix station, though).

Renting out the station to CC as a KOY repeater makes more sense to me.

 

[johndavis]

Maybe they're thinking they'll be the next KGBC, which after Ike tried playing oldies off the hard drive to Galveston and selling (not much) local direct. The Chinese government came in trying to reach Houston and leased it out 24/7 to relay Radio China International. Instead of "Keep Galveston Beaches Clean" the locals now say the calls mean "Keep Galveston Broadcasting Chinese." The signal barely hits Houston, but the checks clear.

So there's always the hope that they can sucker the Chinese into leasing it out.

I don't believe there's much of a Chinese community out that way (might work for a Phoenix station, though).

Renting out the station to CC as a KOY repeater makes more sense to me.

There isn't a Chinese community near KGBC either. 2.5kw day/250 night 50 miles away at 1540 doesn't cut it. Granted, it's English language propoganda programming, but my point is that there are some people who will pay too much to be on a rimshot without proper due diligence. Kind of like when the Musical Starstreams guy flipped the FM in Wickenburg to KBSZ to try to unseat KYOT with new age music in the 90's. Even if there was an audience for that, you couldn't pick it up.

I give them credit for trying, but if they want this to last longer than 6 months, maybe they should shop for a FM translator or else just broker it out.

 

[landtuna]

AJ and East Mesa are full of retirement communities, trailer parks, and retirement trailer parks. Seems like an audience that would appreciate the music they're playing, don't mind AM radio, and don't drive around much.

rockjock:

But try selling advertising with that as your audience profile.

But Michael......wouldn't that station be considered the epitome of LOCAL? Seems there would be a market for ads directed at local residents (meaning the *ahem* older subdemo of the greater East Valley). You know....drug stores, restaurants, bingo tournaments, services of all sorts, orthopedic devices and mortuaries.

Doubt the revenue would be huge but the expenses probably are not huge either. I seem to remember a Standards/MusicOfYourLife station in Green Valley, AZ (also a retirement community) that did quite well (KGVY?).

 

[radioiscrack]

Other than the years I did talk radio in Dallas, ever since moving to the Valley in 1985 I have done two things:

1. Buy broadcast ad time for my clients with the Valley's largest broadcast ad agency.

2. Self-produced two radio shows for which I hosted and tried to sell ad time on KFNX and KAZG...two lower performing AM's in the market.

I bring this up because I too question who is going to buy this station with this programming. I base this on the criteria by which we buy media at the agency level, and my experience in offering a geographically targeted program to advertisers, which even local clients rejected as not having enough impact for the money.

Advertisers care about one thing...COST. 50,000 watt KFNX, which carries a lot of quality syndicated programming regularly emails advertisers an offer where you can buy spots for $10. Using this as a yardstick, what can a general music station on AM with 800 watts and limited marketing area hope to charge? I wonder if savvy business owners in Pinal County will pay more than a dollar a holler?

Jeffry O'Brien (ex KXAM) is a clever guy and will be doing mornings, PD and GM duties. But if he's the sales mgr. too, he's got his work cut out for him.

The broadcaster in me is jealous as hell at being able to build a station from scratch. The businessman and marketer in me hasn't a clue what will make this product pay for itself.

Scott Anderson

 

[landtuna]

Advertisers care about one thing...COST.

I'm playing devil's advocate so don't **** the pistol just yet.

It would seem caring about just COST of an ad campaign would be very short sighted. Kind of like buying ice cream based upon price alone and not considering the quality of the product.

Don't advertisers review their buys to determine how they affect sales/profit? If I was a business I would sure want to know how much the cost of the campaign affected my bottom line. If you don't know that how can you evaluate different ad media or messages or sales specials etc.?

Can a low-budget AM such as we're discussing sell ads directly to local advertisers or do they deal with agencies only? I realize selling direct entails more labor effort but then you can tailor the ad (and cost) to the individual advertiser.

There's obviously a lot I don't know but I'm tryin'.

 

[KOOL Listener Lauren]

This station can now use a TREMENDOUS social networking campaign targeted not to the social networking world, but to their geographic location. You can boost not only traditional revenue from sales with a heavy online presence, but online revenue.

This is one of the things I do, and I've done them for stations that have started from scratch in their market.

 

[michael hagerty]

AJ and East Mesa are full of retirement communities, trailer parks, and retirement trailer parks. Seems like an audience that would appreciate the music they're playing, don't mind AM radio, and don't drive around much.

rockjock:

But try selling advertising with that as your audience profile.

But Michael......wouldn't that station be considered the epitome of LOCAL? Seems there would be a market for ads directed at local residents (meaning the *ahem* older subdemo of the greater East Valley). You know....drug stores, restaurants, bingo tournaments, services of all sorts, orthopedic devices and mortuaries.

Doubt the revenue would be huge but the expenses probably are not huge either. I seem to remember a Standards/MusicOfYourLife station in Green Valley, AZ (also a retirement community) that did quite well (KGVY?).

Landtuna: You're right logically. But here are the complicating factors:

Drugstores are now pretty much a CVS/Walgreens/Osco world. That's an agency buy, not a local, and though it seems counter-intuitive, they're buying 25-54 when they buy radio (think...you hear them hawking easter candy to Moms, not Depends to grandma).

Restaurants? A ton of Village Inn/Denny's/Perkins gong on there.

There are mom and pops, but to move their needle, they'll probably need to advertise at least once an hour 6A-6P. Let's pretend the station can get 10 bucks a spot. Mom and Pop have to come up with 120 dollars a day, 600 a week, $31,200 a year to do that. Even if the spot rate is cut in half, you're probably talking about more than they pay a waitress.

Bingo tournaments and mortuaries? Is advertising really going to change their traffic?

And for any of them...using the basis you provide...the customers they get are low-income, fixed-income or both and will only spend so much.

And then there's the station's end. With that night signal let's (charitably) figure only 12 hours a day are salable. Working for Bergamo taught me that in a small operation, 60% sellout at rate card is sometimes all you can do. So they're selling maybe 120 spots a day at 5 bucks a spot....$600 a day. Debt service, the power bill, licensing fees, salaries and commissions, other costs of doing and changing business.........

There are...or at least were...GMs and GSMs in Phoenix blowing through six bills a day in travel and entertainment expenses alone before the economy went south. On their own. Not the staff. That was extra.

Running a whole radio station on their pocket money is tough. If these guys can do it, they're heroes.

 

[asugeorge1]

AJ and East Mesa are full of retirement communities, trailer parks, and retirement trailer parks. Seems like an audience that would appreciate the music they're playing, don't mind AM radio, and don't drive around much.

rockjock:

But try selling advertising with that as your audience profile.

But Michael......wouldn't that station be considered the epitome of LOCAL? Seems there would be a market for ads directed at local residents (meaning the *ahem* older subdemo of the greater East Valley). You know....drug stores, restaurants, bingo tournaments, services of all sorts, orthopedic devices and mortuaries.

Doubt the revenue would be huge but the expenses probably are not huge either. I seem to remember a Standards/MusicOfYourLife station in Green Valley, AZ (also a retirement community) that did quite well (KGVY?).

Landtuna: You're right logically. But here are the complicating factors:

Drugstores are now pretty much a CVS/Walgreens/Osco world. That's an agency buy, not a local, and though it seems counter-intuitive, they're buying 25-54 when they buy radio (think...you hear them hawking easter candy to Moms, not Depends to grandma).

Restaurants? A ton of Village Inn/Denny's/Perkins gong on there.

There are mom and pops, but to move their needle, they'll probably need to advertise at least once an hour 6A-6P. Let's pretend the station can get 10 bucks a spot. Mom and Pop have to come up with 120 dollars a day, 600 a week, $31,200 a year to do that. Even if the spot rate is cut in half, you're probably talking about more than they pay a waitress.

Bingo tournaments and mortuaries? Is advertising really going to change their traffic?



And for any of them...using the basis you provide...the customers they get are low-income, fixed-income or both and will only spend so much.

And then there's the station's end. With that night signal let's (charitably) figure only 12 hours a day are salable. Working for Bergamo taught me that in a small operation, 60% sellout at rate card is sometimes all you can do. So they're selling maybe 120 spots a day at 5 bucks a spot....$600 a day. Debt service, the power bill, licensing fees, salaries and commissions, other costs of doing and changing business.........

There are...or at least were...GMs and GSMs in Phoenix blowing through six bills a day in travel and entertainment expenses alone before the economy went south. On their own. Not the staff. That was extra.

Running a whole radio station on their pocket money is tough. If these guys can do it, they're heroes.

That night signal is definitely going to be a problem for this station. I did an experiment last night of the signal strength starting from Uptown Phoenix heading east to Gilbert. In Uptown Phoenix, the signal was non-existent and some station from Mexico was dominating the 1260 dial. Surprisingly, this Mexican station came in pretty clearly at times. Once I got on the SR 51 heading south from Indian School, the Apache Junction KBSZ signal started fading in and out. The station from Mexico continued to fight with KBSZ heading east on the I-10 until the Salt River Bridge where the rock and roll music from KBSZ started winning the battle with Mexico. The A.J. signal still had a lot of static and was fading in and out through the Broadway Curve. Heading east on the U.S. 60, the signal started to strengthen and by the time I got into Mesa, the signal was fairly decent. The signal was pretty powerful and enjoyable to listen to by the time I got east of Gilbert Road. So, realistically for listeners, if you don't live east of Gilbert Road, this station is not going to be listenable at night. Sad, but true.

I definitely want to see this station succeed with the oldies / rock and roll format it has. The daytime signal is adequate to cover the East Valley and most of Phoenix. The night-time signal, though, is a major problem. Reminds me of the strength of the KAZG night-time signal we heard for a couple days last month: listenable only within 10 or 12 miles of the transmitter. Beyond that, better change the radio to FM or listen to audiotapes! ;D

 

[99KTKT]

I seem to remember a Standards/MusicOfYourLife station in Green Valley, AZ (also a retirement community) that did quite well (KGVY?).

Yes, KGVY is still alive'n'kickin', but it's been quite a while since their "Standards/MusicOfYourLife" days. Nowadays they play quite a range of music from the 60s into the 90s, pop, r&b, and an increasing number of rock--yes, rock oldies. It still seems strange to hear something like "Sweet Home Alabama" or "Wish You Were Here" on AM, but they play 'em! You've got to keep in mind that the Green Valley 55+ demo is changing. To someone in their late 50s, Skynyrd, Floyd (not to mention The Cars and The Pretenders) is indeed the music of their youth. They're definitely not going after the increasingly elderly Sinatra/Cole demo, or even the slightly younger '50s Elvis crowd. Their target demo is squarely the younger two thirds to three quarters of the boomer years: Folks born between 1950 and 1965 or so.
as far as their ad revenue goes, they seem to be doing fine: Lots and lots of local Green Valley/Sahuarita-area sponsors. You'd be surprised at how many local businesses are inj that area, and they all seem to advertise on KGVY.
How the KGVY model translates to AJ, I don't knpow, as I don't know that much about AJ. From what i gather here it seems to be a bit more downscale than GV, with a lot more trailers, er, mobile homes?

 

[oldiesfan6479]

KGVY 1080 Green Valley is also playing the move-in game,
holding a CP to change COL to Tucson, boost power from
1 kw-D to 1.4 kw-D (still daytime only), and relocate its
XMTR site to Tucson near Grant Rd. & 1st Ave., which I
think would be diplexing on the KCEE 690 stick.

See here:
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/amq?stat...&slat2=&NS=N&dlon2=&mlon2=&slon2=&EW=W&size=9

And here:
http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/finder?call=KGVY&sr=Y&s=C

 

[michael hagerty]

I seem to remember a Standards/MusicOfYourLife station in Green Valley, AZ (also a retirement community) that did quite well (KGVY?).

Yes, KGVY is still alive'n'kickin', but it's been quite a while since their "Standards/MusicOfYourLife" days. Nowadays they play quite a range of music from the 60s into the 90s, pop, r&b, and an increasing number of rock--yes, rock oldies. It still seems strange to hear something like "Sweet Home Alabama" or "Wish You Were Here" on AM, but they play 'em! You've got to keep in mind that the Green Valley 55+ demo is changing. To someone in their late 50s, Skynyrd, Floyd (not to mention The Cars and The Pretenders) is indeed the music of their youth. They're definitely not going after the increasingly elderly Sinatra/Cole demo, or even the slightly younger '50s Elvis crowd. Their target demo is squarely the younger two thirds to three quarters of the boomer years: Folks born between 1950 and 1965 or so.
as far as their ad revenue goes, they seem to be doing fine: Lots and lots of local Green Valley/Sahuarita-area sponsors. You'd be surprised at how many local businesses are inj that area, and they all seem to advertise on KGVY.
How the KGVY model translates to AJ, I don't knpow, as I don't know that much about AJ. From what i gather here it seems to be a bit more downscale than GV, with a lot more trailers, er, mobile homes?

Well, KGVY gives some hope, then...that's good!

We should remember that AJ is only part of the equation....1260 is targeting Pinal County, which went through a lot of growth the past decade...there are more new tract homes than trailer parks down around Florence and Coolidge. But my understanding is most of that growth was in working families looking for affordable homes....it's not a retirement area. And getting people under 50 to listen to AM is an increasingly difficult task.

 

[MarkAndrews]

I'm amazed at the number of houses right alongside the Superstition Freeway east of Signal Butte that weren't there five years ago...

If KBSZ can somehow superserve AJ and the immediate surrounding area, they'll find a market...

 

[oldiesfan6479]

And...this is weird...some of the music sounds about 2 RPM slow (My Sweet Lord, Bennie and the Jets,
Best Of My Love by the Eagles).

They're running the 'tables at 43 RPM? I've heard of going at 47 RPM,
as well as 48 RPM (KCBQ circa 1971), but 43?

Yeah, I know the music is on a hard drive.

Come to think of it, WABC always sounded a bit slow. Maybe they ran at
45 RPM (when dubbing songs to cart), while others in the tri-state area as
well as the Top 40s back home sped things up a bit.

Back to perceived slowness on KBSZ...in the past half hour their airing of
"the only James Brown song oldies stations play" did indeed sound a little
sluggish. After years of power rotation on KOOL-FM, I'm used to it being
pitched up a bit more.