Music

[davideduardo]

---->It has taken satellite since 2001 to get to 11 million subscribers (if you count all the cars with satellite on dealer lots as subscribers).

Which makes it the fastest-growing audio technology ever.

By the way, how many HD Radio sets have been sold yet, davey?

No, RADIO was the fastest growing audio technology. Look at how many sets were sold between the original licencing (1922 is really the benchmark) as a percentage of the population and 6 years later. It makes satellite pale by comparison. And free radio does not have a churn rate.

And the HD marketing campaign began last month. The first wave of lowered price receivers should be introduced at the 2007 CES.

 

[zumahans]

Re: CBS was making $3 million a year in 1939 per US Supreme Court.

----> Where did I say that?

In the other thread, and right here:---> I said that I do not believe everything the government says, and I do not think most Americans do, either.

---->Then stop posting. This was a discussion about whether CBS was profitable in the 30's or not.

No, Davey, it is now a thread about your credibility, and how that relates to your "facts" that you cite.

----->----->Which brings me back to your last post of a Supreme Court ruling from the 1940s.

---->1942, to be exact

Oh, thank you for correcting that, the world can sleep better now that "the 1940s" has been corrected to 1942.

Typical, El Pluperfecto. Typical.

 

[davideduardo]

----> The average American listens to radio about 19:30 hours a week. It is a bit higher in 18-54, too. But let's go with the average. Since most satellite radios are in cars, that limits listening to the car (duh). 30% of radio listening is in the car. So the net loss is equivalent to 30% of 11 million, or about 3.5 million "equivalent listeners."

No, there is no corelation there at all. It could be that XM radio listeners are not a part of your "average" at all. First off, they pay for their radio. Secondly, most sat radio tuners are portable and can be carried into the house. Finally, early adopters of a competing technology are certainly not a part of your rating system, beholden as they are to the radio industry that sustains them.

---->Since Arbitron began measuring radio (and the data is parallel in Canada witht he BBM, even) about 5% of listeners did not use radio at all. Another 7 to 9 percent used it very lightly.

And that hasn't been changed by 14 million satellite radios and 30 million IPods? Or by streaming audio> Or Music Choice on cable? Or by XM/Sirius streams on 40 million DISH/DirecTV sets?

90% of satellite installs are in-car ones. The portables are a small part of the market. And, in case you have not tried, even int he big markets, the satellite reception inside buildings, houses and shacks is less than perfect. It is all about these things called a "roof" that explain why Dish and DTV subscribers have to put those frying-pan like things up on the roof or on the balcony.

The net figure on satellite is around 11 to 12 million, if we discount the SEC-recognized over-reporting, the use of figures on cars in the dealer channels, etc. There is no significant erosion of radio's listeners due to this. You are speculating, with no proof at all.

 

[zumahans]

No, RADIO was the fastest growing audio technology. Look at how many sets were sold between the original licencing (1922 is really the benchmark) as a percentage of the population and 6 years later. It makes satellite pale by comparison. And free radio does not have a churn rate.

And the HD marketing campaign began last month. The first wave of lowered price receivers should be introduced at the 2007 CES.

You might be right about radio's introduction. That would make pay radio's introduction faster than color television, VCRs, and even DVDs.

"Free" radio - a questionable term that hides radio hidden costs on consumers - most certainly does have a churn rate. But your radio industry-sponsored research will never devise a methodology that would kill the golden goose, would it?

Those industry surveys are still questionable at best, and self-serving at every level.

 

[davideduardo]

Re: CBS was making $3 million a year in 1939 per US Supreme Court.

----> Where did I say that?

In the other thread, and right here:---> I said that I do not believe everything the government says, and I do not think most Americans do, either.

I did NOT say I did not believe the government, which is what you claimed I said. I said I did not believe everything the government tells me, which is totally different.

[EDIT]


[EDIT=name calling, inflammatory]

 

[zumahans]

Re: CBS was making $3 million a year in 1939 per US Supreme Court.

----> Where did I say that?

In the other thread, and right here:---> I said that I do not believe everything the government says, and I do not think most Americans do, either.

I did NOT say I did not believe the government, which is what you claimed I said. I said I did not believe everything the government tells me, which is totally different.

[EDIT]

[EDIT=name calling, inflammatory]

Oooo, David, would that be a personal attack?

Why is it OK for you to enter every thread, post 8,000-plus missives, and not OK for someone to answer you?

Correct me, David: how many posts exactly is it?

 

[SuperRadioFan]

Re: CBS was making $3 million a year in 1939 per US Supreme Court.

Hans: Which brings me back to your last post of a Supreme Court ruling from the 1940s.

David: 1942, to be exact

Oh, thank you for correcting that, the world can sleep better now that "the 1940s" has been corrected to 1942.

Typical, El Pluperfecto. Typical.

From the LA Board

How petty can you be?

 

[davideduardo]

Re: CBS was making $3 million a year in 1939 per US Supreme Court.

Hans: Which brings me back to your last post of a Supreme Court ruling from the 1940s.

David: 1942, to be exact

Oh, thank you for correcting that, the world can sleep better now that "the 1940s" has been corrected to 1942.

Typical, El Pluperfecto. Typical.

From the LA Board

How petty can you be?

Were you to have actually followed the thread in a manner less like a camp-follower, you would understand that the precise date is key to the discussion. The other poster indicated that Paley's "papers" indicated profitability only just prior to W. W. II, so establishing when the Supreme Court heard evidence on said profitability and for what years is crucial.

[EDIT]


[EDIT=ad hominem attack]

 

[purpledevil]

This should be good reading when everyone wakes up and peruses the board tomorrow. Very entertaining. Thanks for bringing these L.A. board problems over here to us fine folks in Texas. Couldn't you have left this crap on "ya'lls" board? Please, we don't want to disturb your witty banter with any of our Dallas radio discussions.

Continue onward, through the fog.

 

[zumahans]

--->Thanks for bringing these L.A. board problems over here to us fine folks in Texas. Couldn't you have left this crap on "ya'lls" board?

Looked to me like the good texans putting up with this radio phenomenum needed a little moral support.

As we say in LA: mi casa es su casa.

 

[klifhanger]

Aww David. Chief Justice Charles Evans Hughes was the same Mr, Hughes,a self absorbed individual who went to bed on election night in Nov. 1916 as the Republican Nominee for President. He went to bed thinking he was elected President of the USA. He woke up to discover that Woodrow Wilson was re-elected. In the 1920's he was appointed to the Supreme Court, and in the 30's struck down Many of Franklin Roosevelt's social programs. William Paley founder of CBS was a close friend of FDR, a big supporter of FDR. The 1942 court ruling you referred to was more about Hughes than CBS and it was determined by THE US HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE IN 1944 to have been a 'POLICTICALLY MOTIVATED" decision,and the ruling was eventually OVERTURNED! The Attorney General of New York filed a "REVIEW" of the decision and the US Attorney General asked the US Solicitor General to petition the Court. How convenient of you to overlook that information. The Papers are once again are in the Columbia University Archives and Harvard's! Paley was Correct, no profitability until after WW2. sheesh.

 

[davideduardo]

Aww David. Chief Justice Charles Evans Hughes was the same Mr, Hughes,a self absorbed individual who went to bed on election night in Nov. 1916 as the Republican Nominee for President. He went to bed thinking he was elected President of the USA. He woke up to discover that Woodrow Wilson was re-elected. In the 1920's he was appointed to the Supreme Court, and in the 30's struck down Many of Franklin Roosevelt's social programs. William Paley founder of CBS was a close friend of FDR, a big supporter of FDR. The 1942 court ruling you referred to was more about Hughes than CBS and it was determined by THE US HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE IN 1944 to have been a 'POLICTICALLY MOTIVATED" decision,and the ruling was eventually OVERTURNED! The Attorney General of New York filed a "REVIEW" of the decision and the US Attorney General asked the US Solicitor General to petition the Court. How convenient of you to overlook that information. The Papers are once again are in the Columbia University Archives and Harvard's! Paley was Correct, no profitability until after WW2. sheesh.

The political motivation behind a decision does not invalidate the facts presented in the decision. Hughes was the appelate (CBS) attorney, in any case, and former political figures are often recruited, even today, to represent high profile cases. In this one, the FCC was changing the nature of network contracts, something that would have endangered CBS' profits.

Columbia went public in 1937. It reported profits to its shareholders, and even paid dividends out of those profits, all prior to the W.W. II era.

I am suggesting that there are definitely several sides to this issue, since multiple sources reported the enterprise profitable form as early as 1930, the first full year of Paley operation (they missed a couple of days of 1929).

Even in the 30's, it would be hard for a company to lie so agressively as to cover up 15 years of no profits (1929 to 1945) with no visible source of financing of the debts incurred by the deficits.

Can you describe the language in which Paley discussed the lack of profitability, and whether he distinguished between the network and the whole company, etc., etc.

 

[klifhanger]

Re: Music DAVID EDUARDO TIMELINE

1860'S -----CONSULTS SAMUEL MORSE THAT THE TELEGRAPH IS A DUMB IDEA AND THAT IT WILL NOT REPLACE THE CURRENT PONY EXPRESS. MORSE RESPONDED IN A GENTILE MANNER WITH A SERIES OF DOTS AND DASHES TO AN SSOCIATE IN BALTIMORE DESCRIBING EDUARDO'S COMMENT"WHAT HATH GOD WROUGHT"?

1900'S ____- DAVID EDUARDO Informs Marconi, that the "wireless is worthless" . "Most people rather use a telephone" He stated,but left out when he spoke to Alexander Graham Bell years before that the telephone would not catch on due to the US Mail system.

1920's---David informs former wireless radiio operator Sarnoff that forming a radio network was a bad idea. "who wants to listens to Police calls and static"? He exclaims"It will never work! Sarnoff registers the National Broadcast Company.
1932 --DAVID EDUARDO advises President Herbert Hoover to seek re-election. "The economic down turn is a good thing, and will create more jobs"
1933 - Oklahoma dustbowl takes place. Great Depression Deepens, Will Rogers meets David Eduardo,and immediately dislikes him.

1941 -Japan bombs Pearl Harbor David purchases stock in Toshiba and Sony. Sells off shares of Columbia Phonograph co.

1956- Elvis Pressley debuts. David dismisses him as a passing fad. "Who would buy this guys records?' RCA will never make money!" "someone should tell this country boy he can't sing!"
1957 - "American Bandstand debuts" David tells ABC execs. "You will never make money on this" "who wants to listen to this rock and roll fad", much less watch during the week" The show will last a week and that Dick Clark will never make it"
1959- David informs Gordon McLendon that his "top 40 idea" will never catch on, and KLIF,KILT,Plus KTSA will bankrupt him.
1960- JFK Elected President. David campaigned for Richard Nixon, stating"Anyone who gave a speech about his dog ,has got to be honest".
1964- David Tells Ed Sullivan that he will be th laughing stock of the nation for having The Beatles on His show. "Steve Lawrence and Edie Gormie" would be a big ratings boost" "Who wants to watch 4 boys with terrible accents and needing cuts on a sunday night". Nobody will remember these guys""they'll flop".

1972- David Informs Richard Nixon that "This Watergate Thing is just a passing fancy,equivalent to landing on the moon" Not important.

1976- David informs Pres. Gerald Ford not to celebrate America's Bicentenial"We don't want to make our British allies mad".

1987- Fairness Doctrine expires. David issues a statement that stations will continue to be fair and ballanced and all sides will be heard and seen equally and fairly.

1988- Radio marti is Joined By TV Marti beaming programs to Cuba. David is the Pd and insists shows depcit American Life reruns of "Andy Griffith","Gomer Pyle","Amos and Andy"."Bewitched","Father Knows Best" and"I Love Lucy are shown"

1996- The Telecom Act is passed. David celebrates by pink slipping 6 employees ,each with 15 years of loyal service.

 

[klifhanger]

The language of William Paley was cut and dried and to the point in simple english. They were in the red until after ww2. End of story.

 

[davideduardo]

Re: Did Paley or CBS lie?

The language of William Paley was cut and dried and to the point in simple english. They were in the red until after ww2. End of story.

And that totally contradicts the annual reports to shareholders and the fact they paid dividends.

Were you objective, this should be the biginning of the story.

Why does the financial information which was widely reported in trade publications and national magazines and even published in the annual reports (I am assuming you know what an annual report is) as well as cited in court cases of record show a profit? A profit starting in 1930?

This would seem to merit some considerable study. Was there fraud? Was Paley simply making untrue statements or referring to specific parts of the enterprise? Were the reports to shareholders a lie?

Fascinating, and definitely not an end to the story.

 

[klifhanger]

Or could it be your interpretation is off base and your sources provided misleading information in order to discredit him?Interesting,and delightful. ad infintium.

 

[davideduardo]

Or could it be your interpretation is off base and your sources provided misleading information in order to discredit him?Interesting,and delightful. ad infintium.

What possible interpretation can there be of the CBS-issued annual reports where they show profits prior to 1945? Why would CBS want to discredit Mr. Paley?

 

[klifhanger]

Ho-Hum Davey. You got to win the debate..arguement. Man you must be fun at parties. I suspect the thin mountain air of Quito affected you in your youth causing this compulsion of yours. You apparently did not read close enough when the pronoun 'YOUR" was applied. CBS wouldn't discredit Paley since he owned the company. Thats like saying Mark Mays is discredited by CC.or vice versa. Just because "YOU (there's that pronoun or derivitative of it again) owns an old magazine that quotes a stock price BACK THEN,doesn't give it credibility. A "Prestigious" University Like Columbia is credible due to its long time scholars and internationally recognized historians. Good grief, get a gig on a 250w daytime am and have a talk show so you can be right all the time in the mojave. If you're trying to set an endurance record for a thread ,give it up. You have a long way to go. You amuse me. Tata.

Comment posted....ALARMS GO OFF IN THE EDUARDO HOUSEHOLD,,ALERT! ALERT! INTRUDER DARES TO RESPOND AND DISAGREE! IMMEDIATE REBUTAL MUST BE MADE ,ALERT THE PC ,HIT THE FAVORITES,ENGAGE RESPONSE!

 

[DougD]

Re: Music DAVID EDUARDO TIMELINE

1860'S -----CONSULTS SAMUEL MORSE THAT THE TELEGRAPH IS A DUMB IDEA AND THAT IT WILL NOT REPLACE THE CURRENT PONY EXPRESS. MORSE RESPONDED IN A GENTILE MANNER WITH A SERIES OF DOTS AND DASHES TO AN SSOCIATE IN BALTIMORE DESCRIBING EDUARDO'S COMMENT"WHAT HATH GOD WROUGHT"?

1900'S ____- DAVID EDUARDO Informs Marconi, that the "wireless is worthless" . "Most people rather use a telephone" He stated,but left out when he spoke to Alexander Graham Bell years before that the telephone would not catch on due to the US Mail system.

1920's---David informs former wireless radiio operator Sarnoff that forming a radio network was a bad idea. "who wants to listens to Police calls and static"? He exclaims"It will never work! Sarnoff registers the National Broadcast Company.
1932 --DAVID EDUARDO advises President Herbert Hoover to seek re-election. "The economic down turn is a good thing, and will create more jobs"
1933 - Oklahoma dustbowl takes place. Great Depression Deepens, Will Rogers meets David Eduardo,and immediately dislikes him.

1941 -Japan bombs Pearl Harbor David purchases stock in Toshiba and Sony. Sells off shares of Columbia Phonograph co.

1956- Elvis Pressley debuts. David dismisses him as a passing fad. "Who would buy this guys records?' RCA will never make money!" "someone should tell this country boy he can't sing!"
1957 - "American Bandstand debuts" David tells ABC execs. "You will never make money on this" "who wants to listen to this rock and roll fad", much less watch during the week" The show will last a week and that Dick Clark will never make it"
1959- David informs Gordon McLendon that his "top 40 idea" will never catch on, and KLIF,KILT,Plus KTSA will bankrupt him.
1960- JFK Elected President. David campaigned for Richard Nixon, stating"Anyone who gave a speech about his dog ,has got to be honest".
1964- David Tells Ed Sullivan that he will be th laughing stock of the nation for having The Beatles on His show. "Steve Lawrence and Edie Gormie" would be a big ratings boost" "Who wants to watch 4 boys with terrible accents and needing cuts on a sunday night". Nobody will remember these guys""they'll flop".

1972- David Informs Richard Nixon that "This Watergate Thing is just a passing fancy,equivalent to landing on the moon" Not important.

1976- David informs Pres. Gerald Ford not to celebrate America's Bicentenial"We don't want to make our British allies mad".

1987- Fairness Doctrine expires. David issues a statement that stations will continue to be fair and ballanced and all sides will be heard and seen equally and fairly.

1988- Radio marti is Joined By TV Marti beaming programs to Cuba. David is the Pd and insists shows depcit American Life reruns of "Andy Griffith","Gomer Pyle","Amos and Andy"."Bewitched","Father Knows Best" and"I Love Lucy are shown"

1996- The Telecom Act is passed. David celebrates by pink slipping 6 employees ,each with 15 years of loyal service.

Man, that's hilarious.

Here are some additions...

2006- David mocks radio station for commemorating Apollo launch or the first man on the moon during late 60s, early 70s. Claims most listeners - or target demos - to radio today weren't alive during said event and couldn't care less. Not wise. Ad men only want 25-49.

2006- Despite listener pleas to the contrary, in an era of more radio stations and supposed greater variety of formats, David advises all on web forum that listeners 55+ (or those that like that kind of music such as this 44-year-old) don't count and anyone in radio even considering playing such music (pre-Beatles) is crazy and will lose money.

2020- David potentially dies.
Trade magazine or web forum wants to do a write up on said expert.
Response from editors: "who cares? He's some old guy. Our advertisers don't think anyone of that age is important. They only care about demos under 55+. This guy's too old for our "demos"-."

 

[davideduardo]

Ho-Hum Davey. You got to win the debate..arguement. Man you must be fun at parties. I suspect the thin mountain air of Quito affected you in your youth causing this compulsion of yours. You apparently did not read close enough when the pronoun 'YOUR" was applied. CBS wouldn't discredit Paley since he owned the company. Thats like saying Mark Mays is discredited by CC.or vice versa. Just because "YOU (there's that pronoun or derivitative of it again) owns an old magazine that quotes a stock price BACK THEN,doesn't give it credibility. A "Prestigious" University Like Columbia is credible due to its long time scholars and internationally recognized historians. Good grief, get a gig on a 250w daytime am and have a talk show so you can be right all the time in the mojave. If you're trying to set an endurance record for a thread ,give it up. You have a long way to go. You amuse me. Tata.

You are apparently ill-versed in the terminology of business if you dismiss an annual report to shareholders and a multi-page article in Fortune about the development of the Columbia Broadcasting System as a "stock quote."

An annual report is that document that each shareholder receives each year reporting on the operations of a company. The basic requirements were a profit and loss statement, a blance sheet, any footnotes to either, and some type of narrative by the "head guy" at the company. As the "art form" of the annual report progressed, the publication often included pictures of the company operations and products, maps of factory locations and the like. After the crash of October, 1929, many reports also included some type of audit or certification of the financials.

The annual reports published by CBS showed profits from the time it was NYSE (New York Sock Exchange, where the principal equity issues were traded at the time) listed. Again: the CBS annual report was prepared and printed and sent to shareholders on orders of Mr. Paley. That's the way it worked then, and how it works now.

So I ask agian, why would CBS certify to its shareholders under Mr. Paley's signature, that they made money if they did not?

I was not there. I have no idea what the real truth was. I know that Radio Digest reported 1930 and on to be profitable. Broadcasting reported same from the time it was founded later in the 30's. A survery of radio in Fortune (which does not and has never carried stock quotes) from Fortune of May 28, 1938 shows the profitability of CBS (as well as that of NBC).

In your citation of Columbia and Harvard, you forget that their collections include the writings of some rather famous scoundrels, charlatans and crooks. Just because thier libraries house the writings of Paley does not mean that the writings of Paley are correct. It just means that he wrote them. The fact that you seem to believe that being housed at Columbia gives some form of credibility indicates to me that you have likely not seen the documents. Your reference to "stock quotes" in the context of Fortune shows you ignore the significance of a Fortune report in that era and your statements about annula reports shows total ignorance of financial reporting to shareholders.

Insulting me changes not an iota the fact that there is ample documentation availble with a scant few Internet searches that show profitability of CBS from its earliest full year. We have, by contrast, no evidence of anything said by Mr. Paley that speaks to the contrary; such information would be rather earth-shaking in the realm of broadcasting history as it contradicts Mr, Paley's own annual report.

As I suggested earlier, instead of hurling brickbats, this shoud be looked upon as an interesting case for further study, should the personal libraries truly contain documents that claim the entire CBS operation did not make money until 1945 or after. Of special interest would be the source for operating capital during 15 of the toughest years for American business ever.

Something is definitely wrong. Unfortunately, I suspect it is your information or your interpretation of the same, as you do not even know what an annual report is or you would not have ridiculed me for aksing how the annual report could have shown a profit and how CBS would not contradict Mr. Stanton when Mr. Stanton ISSUED the annual reports.

You say, "CBS wouldn't discredit Paley since he owned the company. " Yet the company issued annual reports, and even presented them in a Supreme Court case, shoing profitability of CBS way BEFORE W.W. II started. Nice try.