Rock in New York City

[davideduardo]

Again, find a station, in the past decade or so, which has been #1 in its target demo, but had a low power ratio, and flipped formats as a result - if you can find a couple examples, your arguments would have merit...

Here is one: KLNO in Dallas. Often #1 in 25-54 in the 2006-2008 period. Power ratio of 0.4 - 0.5. Switched format to the more salable one they have now, and lost about 30% of the shares in the demo. Indexed against market billing, which declined due to the recession, the station increased sales by about 30%. Power ratio increased to about 0.8.

That's in market #5... and a very good example.

 

[jnc121978]

I dont know why Q104.3 doesnt go back to their roots from 20 yrs ago, and call the station pure rock. Isnt the classic rock sound getting old, I mean they can still play classic rock ,but with more current rock/90s rock and its format sounds edgier like it did in the mid 90s.

 

[jnc121978]

Its just a matter of time before a station does flip to rock that nobody saw coming, like a Hot 97,Now 92.3, or KTU 103.5. I believe way back in the 80s there was a NY station called 99X, maybe that is a good choice for an alternative station.

 

[davideduardo]

Its just a matter of time before a station does flip to rock that nobody saw coming, like a Hot 97,Now 92.3, or KTU 103.5. I believe way back in the 80s there was a NY station called 99X, maybe that is a good choice for an alternative station.

WKTU is 5th in 18-34 and 18-49, and 7th in 25-54. It's 7th in billings. It's among the least likely to switch of any station in the city.

WQHT is 9th in billings, and 4th in 18-34 and top 10 18-49. Highly unlikely this one would switch.

 

[Barry]

WVIP broadcasting from New York on 93.5 FM is a station we hardly ever mention.
Is there a possibility they could earn more revenue from a rock format than their current leased programming?
Frankly I doubt it, but it has been a while since there has been any talk about them .

 

[mrbrightside]

Its just a matter of time before a station does flip to rock that nobody saw coming, like a Hot 97,Now 92.3, or KTU 103.5. I believe way back in the 80s there was a NY station called 99X, maybe that is a good choice for an alternative station.

WKTU is 5th in 18-34 and 18-49, and 7th in 25-54. It's 7th in billings. It's among the least likely to switch of any station in the city.

WQHT is 9th in billings, and 4th in 18-34 and top 10 18-49. Highly unlikely this one would switch.

Time to close this thread. The fact of the matter is, no one on this board has the authority to flip a station's format, or is psychic, period. Who saw Kiss FM's flip coming? We can argue about it until the cows come home. There are however, agendas that keep getting mixed in. A lot of of us are idealists, and feel that everyone's tastes should be represented on the dial. But unfortunately, because of economics, the NY dial is highly boring, with a ton of duplication.

 

[atlantaboy]

WRFF has recently moved into very nice positions in 18-34 and 25-54. But the power ratio, of course a product of less recent ratings performance, was a miserable 0.3 last year.

So if the high demo ratings are recent, and the power ratio is based on last year, I feel like we can agree that the power ratio that comes out at the end of this year is most likely going to be much higher, or at least it's a strong possibility, no?

Maybe because Now is making money, CBS is waiting until billings data (on other Alternative stations) comes back at the end of this year before considering making a flip in such a large market

I really want to emphasize the fact that the supply of Alternative music in 2013, in my opinion, is the highest its been since the 90s, and like in the 90s, is completely differentiated from Rock/Active Rock

I feel like people are hesitant about Alternative in NYC because of K-Rock's ratings, which were low at a time when the format leaned Active Rock, which apparently doesn't test well in the NYC market

IMO, Alternative, musicwise, is now back to the point it was at when Z100 leaned Alterantive in the mid-90s - I know ratings were down from its straight CHR programming, but they were solidly high enough to show that there is solid demand for Alternative music in the NYC market

 

[atlantaboy]

Sorry, Mrbrightside, I posted that before I saw that you wanted the thread closed...

 

[WNTIRadio]

WVIP broadcasting from New York on 93.5 FM is a station we hardly ever mention.
Is there a possibility they could earn more revenue from a rock format than their current leased programming?
Frankly I doubt it, but it has been a while since there has been any talk about them Smiley.

No. The overhead doing leased programming is VERY low. No jocks, very little sales staff, just one or two people to handle the pay for play. Maybe a part time production person to handle some promos in between shows, maybe not. If it's automated correctly, you don't even need board ops.

No way that's ever going to happen. The gross may be lower than rock, but the net profit is much higher.

 

[Theater of My Mind]

Time to close this thread.

No it's not. It's a great education for students and others who may feel inclined to dig through it.

The big question remains, WHO will get the last word?

 

[XCountry285]

Pacificia laid off their entire airstaff and I imagine that they are going to be forced to sell the station. Cumulus would buy it and put rock on 99.5.

 

[atlantaboy]

Again, find a station, in the past decade or so, which has been #1 in its target demo, but had a low power ratio, and flipped formats as a result - if you can find a couple examples, your arguments would have merit...

Here is one: KLNO in Dallas. Often #1 in 25-54 in the 2006-2008 period. Power ratio of 0.4 - 0.5. Switched format to the more salable one they have now, and lost about 30% of the shares in the demo. Indexed against market billing, which declined due to the recession, the station increased sales by about 30%. Power ratio increased to about 0.8.

That's in market #5... and a very good example.

If we're going to continue this thread,

Every internet source I found has KLNO listed as Regional Mexican since the mid-2000s

http://playlistresearch.com/Dallas Radio History.htm (Scroll to bottom)

http://www.allaccess.com/arbitron/q/market/28/dallas-ft-worth-tx

What format change are you referring to?

 

[chrocket87]

Well, that is the hope and assumption that Cumulus picks it up and flips it. Of course, EMF or WQxR could pick it up, though I certainly hope not.

 

[Huff]

Again, find a station, in the past decade or so, which has been #1 in its target demo, but had a low power ratio, and flipped formats as a result - if you can find a couple examples, your arguments would have merit...

Here is one: KLNO in Dallas. Often #1 in 25-54 in the 2006-2008 period. Power ratio of 0.4 - 0.5. Switched format to the more salable one they have now, and lost about 30% of the shares in the demo. Indexed against market billing, which declined due to the recession, the station increased sales by about 30%. Power ratio increased to about 0.8.

That's in market #5... and a very good example.

If we're going to continue this thread,

Every internet source I found has KLNO listed as Regional Mexican since the mid-2000s

http://playlistresearch.com/Dallas Radio History.htm (Scroll to bottom)

http://www.allaccess.com/arbitron/q/market/28/dallas-ft-worth-tx

What format change are you referring to?

Probably this: KLNO had an oldies-based Regional Mexican (or Spanish Adult Hits) format as "Recuerdo 94.1" from January 10, 2006 until September 21, 2009, when it became Regional Mexican as "La Que Buena".

It was #1 P25-54 the first seven months of PPM in the market, and then fell off after the format change. Billing on the station however, took a significant upturn in the years following the flip.

http://www.dfwradioarchives.info/2008.htm

 

[davideduardo]

If we're going to continue this thread,

Every internet source I found has KLNO listed as Regional Mexican since the mid-2000s

I am going to play "gotcha" here.

KLNO, when it was #1, was Spanish Adult Hits, playing no currents and an equal-parts blend of AC, soft regional Mexican and grupera music. The blend was predominantly 60's, 70's and 80's with a bit of 60's. The only "regional" it played was what listeners call "Mexican Ballads" or very soft regional stuff... and then not much of it.

When it switched to its format to Regional Mexican, as Ke Buena, it was 60% current and the rest recurrent and gold based.

http://playlistresearch.com/Dallas Radio History.htm (Scroll to bottom)

They obviously don't know the difference between the two formats. Or did not specify when the limited signal KESS format moved onto the KLNO signal, eliminating the format that had been #1 in a good number of books and in the top few stations for some time.

http://www.allaccess.com/arbitron/q/market/28/dallas-ft-worth-tx

Nor do they, either. Of course, it is indeed Regional now, but it was not when the change occured.

What format change are you referring to?

Adult hits to Regional Mexican, a change in the name from Recuerdo (which means "remember") to Ke Buena "The Hot One".

And I say "gotcha" because I was and am part of the team on both of those formats... which are as different as AC and Hot Country.

Recuerdo had a library of over 800 songs of which less than 25 made it over to the Ke Buena library.

 

[XCountry285]

KLNO-FM has nothing to do with the topic we are on. I doubt that 99.5 will be picked up by QXR or EMF. I would imagine that Cumulus would have EMF buy 103.9 off of them and Cumulus would buy 99.5 for the larger signal. Nash FM would stay on 94.7 (although it's signal sucks once you enter the Bronx cuz of a pirate on 94.5). Rock 99.5 will happen.

 

[chrocket87]

Blind optimism. I'd love it if Cumulus or anyone else bought it and flipped to rock, but don't get your hopes up too much, as screwy things do happen and I'd hate for you to be disappointed.

 

[davideduardo]

KLNO-FM has nothing to do with the topic we are on. I doubt that 99.5 will be picked up by QXR or EMF. I would imagine that Cumulus would have EMF buy 103.9 off of them and Cumulus would buy 99.5 for the larger signal. Nash FM would stay on 94.7 (although it's signal sucks once you enter the Bronx cuz of a pirate on 94.5). Rock 99.5 will happen.

KLNO was brought up because Reuben challenged me to name a station that was #1 in its target demo and which dumped the format due to a low power ratio.

In other words, operators do change formats if they are not productive to the degree necessary to meet ownership goals.

 

[Jacko]

I dont know why Q104.3 doesnt go back to their roots from 20 yrs ago, and call the station pure rock. Isnt the classic rock sound getting old, I mean they can still play classic rock ,but with more current rock/90s rock and its format sounds edgier like it did in the mid 90s.

Q104.3 was an active rock station back in its early days from 1993 till about 1996. In the summer, I could pick it up in Rhode Island if the conditions were right and thought they were doing it right. The problem was at that time, grunge and Britpop were all the rage. Q104.3 flipped to classic rock (mostly, with a few newer nuggets sprinkled in) and 102.7 WNEW flipped to classic rock shortly thereafter. Once 'NEW went talk, Q104.3 was the full-fledged classic rocker.

Regarding rock's current status in New York, now is the time. "Alternative" is sounding better these days as evidenced in the number of crossover tracks top 40 in recent months. I DJ'ed an 8th grade dance not too long ago and received requests for Passion Pit, Two Door Cinema Club, and MGMT. I played them and they went nuts. Now his may not be the best sample size, but it's definitely worth noting. The few months that 101.9 went back to alternative the ratings were decent (in the 2's) for a New York station, with barely any promotion, street presence, or personalities. If 99.5 were to do alternative right--bring in knowledgable jocks, promotions, presence at area shows, availability on social media and other platforms, etc.--it could be the next great station.

Jacko

 

[atlantaboy]

KLNO-FM has nothing to do with the topic we are on. I doubt that 99.5 will be picked up by QXR or EMF. I would imagine that Cumulus would have EMF buy 103.9 off of them and Cumulus would buy 99.5 for the larger signal. Nash FM would stay on 94.7 (although it's signal sucks once you enter the Bronx cuz of a pirate on 94.5). Rock 99.5 will happen.

KLNO was brought up because Reuben challenged me to name a station that was #1 in its target demo and which dumped the format due to a low power ratio.

In other words, operators do change formats if they are not productive to the degree necessary to meet ownership goals.

What do you think about the recent growth at Alternative possibly manifesting itself in increased power ratios at the end of this year (and CBS possibly waiting on definitive financial info since there's so much money involved)?