Say Goodbye to the AM Band

[davideduardo]

You are hardly in a rated market. And I can lease a Lexus for $350 a month... new. Of course, we should remember that the average US radio station grosses less than the average McDonalds by more than 50%... so what you have is the same thing as a local hardware store or dry cleaners... a small local business. And there is nothing wrong with that, as long as it lasts. Your problem is not your programming and local focus... it is the fact that you are a very low power AM.

Actually David, Chris' AM is at 930 on the dial. Even with low power, it's still a like a mini-blowtorch at that dial position.

I was referring to the condutivity. 900 daytime watts where the conductivity is below a 3 do not go far. And the fleapower at night is probably very limited, and variable due to atmospherics.

 

[lash]

I've always said "Its not the size of your stick, its what you do what it."

We cover our market very well. Our station is one of the best small sticks in the state.

But after another week of reading your posts, we certainly know where you stand. Climb back up the mountain, Mr. Grinch!!

 

[kenhawk1160]

Mr Birach bought one of my favorite AMs (WNWI) I listened to my whole life, and filled it with every language except english, and now
it's just another frequency I tune right past.

I consider it ethnic, and less useful to more people than it ever was before.
I am sure he's making money at it. Just not from me or other english-only americans.

I said goodbye to that frq, at least.

Sima actually does own a few stations that aren't formatted with multicultural programming. He does own a few that I know of which play classic country, news/talk, and adult standard. Oh...I forgot...he's also doing an LMA with ABC for Radio Disney here in Pittsburgh. I respect him because he does NOT own ONE FM station. Every one of his radio stations is an AM. Something's gotta be said for that kind of belief and commitment to AM radio.

But there is a certain strategy involved. Like my former employer, Salem Communications, Sima buys quality AM signals in desirable markets. I'm also told that unlike many other broadcasting companies, this is what sets his apart...NO DEBT.

 

[lash]

All I can say guys, is that it works for us. I've never been more proud, or had more fun, then I have leaving Pennsylvania, and finding and rebuilding dark AM's.

We will continue to disagree about AM, formats, and much more. But I've never been happier in my 30 years in the business.

So with that I will wish you all a Merry Christmas, including you David. I'm headed to Florida for a week over the holiday.

Have a save and happy holiday!

 

[kenhawk1160]

All I can say guys, is that it works for us. I've never been more proud, or had more fun, then I have leaving Pennsylvania, and finding and rebuilding dark AM's.

We will continue to disagree about AM, formats, and much more. But I've never been happier in my 30 years in the business.

So with that I will wish you all a Merry Christmas, including you David. I'm headed to Florida for a week over the holiday.

Have a save and happy holiday!

Same to you, Chris. Maybe you can be the next Sima Birach in the sense of the belief in AM radio and its future.

Have fun in Florida!

Ken Hawk

 

[dbdigital]

If Art Astor and Saul Levine, two mavericks in town that is by turns dysfunctional and timid in regards to radio, think their is money to be made in Adult Standards and Country, that's good enough for me.

Those two have been in radio for a helluva lot longer than you. They didn't become and stay successful station owners by losing money.

db

Art has been losing money at his AMs for years. This is just another try to make something our of a bad facility... he should sell it.

Sol just plays with his AMs. I doubt he has made money from 1260 in many, many years. But he has the money, so he can do whatever he wants. I did several unprofitable stations when I was an owner back in the 60's just for the fun of it.

And I have been in radio for 48 years, so "heluva lot longer" does not really apply.

Facts, not pompous, know-it-all bluster.

db

 

[kaufcom]

AM can be seen to be dying, just by looking at Arbitron. And the fact that major operators are moving N/T to FM shows that they do not believe they can sustain that fomrat on AM much longer.

Less than 5% of N/T stations are on FM. Including none of the top 25 n/t stations.

 

[davideduardo]

AM can be seen to be dying, just by looking at Arbitron. And the fact that major operators are moving N/T to FM shows that they do not believe they can sustain that fomrat on AM much longer.

Less than 5% of N/T stations are on FM. Including none of the top 25 n/t stations.

If you rank on 12+, you will get the 55+ that is unsalable. The moves and start ups are motivated by a need to grow 25-54 and revenuse. Looking only at 25-54, you can see some amazing and fast occurences with FM only or simulcast traditional n/t stations like WTOP, KSL, WOKV, WNLS, etc., as well as established FMers like those in places like Orlando, Akron, Trenton, etc.

The trend has only just started. WTOP is definitely a top 25 n/t station, and it moved to FM 100% a year ago. KTAR is, if not top 25, probably top 30. And it is simulcating with the old AM for a few months of transition, before going 100% FM. In both these cases, the 25-54 just about doubled. Similar things are happening in Tallahassee, Dayton, Jacksonville, etc.

In Pittsburgh, the FM n/t is now way ahead of KDKA in 25-54. The new n/t on FM in New Orleans will seriously challenge WWL in the sales demos, as under-55's do not want to listen to AM if there is an FM alternative.

The reason this is happening now is that every year, AM listeners get older and few new AM listeners come in at younger ages, whatever the format. So AM news tlakers are ageing, as the 35-54 listener is disappearing. FM allows the format, which is viable in 35-54 to get back in the sales demos.

 

[kenhawk1160]

In Pittsburgh, the FM n/t is now way ahead of KDKA in 25-54. The new n/t on FM in New Orleans will seriously challenge WWL in the sales demos, as under-55's do not want to listen to AM if there is an FM alternative.

The reason this is happening now is that every year, AM listeners get older and few new AM listeners come in at younger ages, whatever the format. So AM news tlakers are ageing, as the 35-54 listener is disappearing. FM allows the format, which is viable in 35-54 to get back in the sales demos.

Much of it has to do with the brand of talk radio in Pittsburgh. The younger-appealing talk shows are heard on 104.7 here. There's four other AM stations that I know of in the Greater Pittsburgh area that are doing newstalk.

KD is doing a mix of local and syndicated talk, mainly targeting a conservative audience. They're in competition mainly with WPTT (which offers the same) more than they are with 104.7.

Then there's WPIT. They're a mix of syndicated secular and Christian talk and teachings.

Then there's a fairly new AM daytimer drop-in at 660 that's programming liberal talk. They would be more apt to compete with 104.7.

There lies the rub...we have too many stations in Pittsburgh that are doing talk now. The audience share talk was getting for AM is starting to shrink. We saw the same spike in AM talk in the early 90's, and that's what brought the little AM I was managing in suburban Pittsburgh back from the dead for a little while. But the trends change, as we all know.

I think KD's best bet at this time would be to switch to All-News, around the clock. Or at least keep the overnight talk show. They have the resources to do it because of the co-owned TV station. KQV also has resources because of the newspaper, but they're at the point where they shut off the lights and tell everyone to go home at 7pm.

 

[dbdigital]

If Art Astor and Saul Levine, two mavericks in town that is by turns dysfunctional and timid in regards to radio, think their is money to be made in Adult Standards and Country, that's good enough for me.

Those two have been in radio for a helluva lot longer than you. They didn't become and stay successful station owners by losing money.

db

Art has been losing money at his AMs for years. This is just another try to make something our of a bad facility... he should sell it.

Sol just plays with his AMs. I doubt he has made money from 1260 in many, many years. But he has the money, so he can do whatever he wants. I did several unprofitable stations when I was an owner back in the 60's just for the fun of it.

And I have been in radio for 48 years, so "heluva lot longer" does not really apply.

Facts, not pompous, know-it-all bluster.

db

As I suspected, you have no facts to back what is basically an assumption that Art Astor and Saul Levine are not making money with their AM operations.

db

 

[davideduardo]

If Art Astor and Saul Levine, two mavericks in town that is by turns dysfunctional and timid in regards to radio, think their is money to be made in Adult Standards and Country, that's good enough for me.

Those two have been in radio for a helluva lot longer than you. They didn't become and stay successful station owners by losing money.

db

Just look at the billing. There is now way that any of these, on thier own, could be making money.

Art has been losing money at his AMs for years. This is just another try to make something our of a bad facility... he should sell it.

Sol just plays with his AMs. I doubt he has made money from 1260 in many, many years. But he has the money, so he can do whatever he wants. I did several unprofitable stations when I was an owner back in the 60's just for the fun of it.

And I have been in radio for 48 years, so "heluva lot longer" does not really apply.

Facts, not pompous, know-it-all bluster.

db

As I suspected, you have no facts to back what is basically an assumption that Art Astor and Saul Levine are not making money with their AM operations.

db

 

[kaufcom]

The trend has only just started. WTOP is definitely a top 25 n/t station, and it moved to FM 100% a year ago. KTAR is, if not top 25, probably top 30. And it is simulcating with the old AM for a few months of transition, before going 100% FM. In both these cases, the 25-54 just about doubled. Similar things are happening in Tallahassee, Dayton, Jacksonville, etc.
In Pittsburgh, the FM n/t is now way ahead of KDKA in 25-54.

WTOP and KTAR are not N/T stations. They are pure 24 hour news stations and thereby appeal to different kind of audience than a talker. The only "estalbished" FM talker in the top 25 that you reference is WPGB in Pittsburgh. CC seems to be putting a lot behind this effort (Limbaugh, Hannity, the Pirates and the Steelers.) We'll watch this one.

 

[davideduardo]

WTOP and KTAR are not N/T stations. They are pure 24 hour news stations and thereby appeal to different kind of audience than a talker. The only "estalbished" FM talker in the top 25 that you reference is WPGB in Pittsburgh. CC seems to be putting a lot behind this effort (Limbaugh, Hannity, the Pirates and the Steelers.) We'll watch this one.

While WTOP is an all news station, KTAR is not. KTAR is more like the KGO model, with news blocks and talk shows appropriate for the daypart. From Ankarlo to Clark Howard, KTAR is definitely a news talker.

And the point remains that this kind of format is moving to FM to capture 35-44 and the intitial results are a confirmation of the fact that all news or news/talk on FM in the same kind of format we are used to on AM does get the 25-54's... in November, KTAR had doubled the AM only 25-54s and jumpet up to #7 in the demo, while AM only KFYI is 14th.

I certainly expect to see more simulcating or outright moving to FM... and we have quite a few markets coming in, from Jacsonville to Dayton. The issue is what to do with the left-over AM without having to write down the asset value... KTAR has made a valuable AM into all sports, and this will be worth watching as well.

Since all-news does not work very well ouside of the top 8 or 10 markets or so, the chances to see another WTOP like conversion are much slimmer.

One thing I wonder is whether Clear might sell some AMs in the "grandfathered" markets and move the intellectual property to an FM as they comply with the requirements of going private.

 

[SeanRuadh]

David, will we see foreign language talk formats?

 

[davideduardo]

David, will we see foreign language talk formats?

There already are... mostly in Spanish. However, since they are on AM and the Hispanic community is young, there is not much listening. The exceptions are on the east coast, where there are large Cuban and Puerto Rican communities that are more mature and listen like mad to talk radio.

 

[smedge2006]

A little known fact: Rush Limbaugh did not save AM radio.

Rush saved one station in each market. Another one or two got saved by sportstalk. The rest sank into the sea of brokered programming. Typical 5 KW AMs are not viable in most markets. The share of FM listening has continued to grow, with the exception of a couple of years where the AM share stayed the same in the mid-90's. Rush got the credit for that. Since then, AM listening has continued to go down overall.

 

[tothedj]

It may not be time to say farewell to the AM Band just yet...
Many major and medium markets who have strong signals are still making good
revenue, for example, WFAN in New York City was the #1 billing station in the
U.S. during 2006, and even though Don Imus is no longer on the air there, he
was responsible for almost half of their income, but they will still make it.
As for the smaller places, many towns are blessed to have a local station that
brings them information and programs not controlled by corporations, i know
of one in Eastern North Carolina that fits this, and is owned by a family, which
you don't see much anymore.
However, a time will come when a lot of AM outlets may be moved to the FM
band, especially if the FCC decides to phase AM out.

 

[davideduardo]

It may not be time to say farewell to the AM Band just yet...
Many major and medium markets who have strong signals are still making good
revenue, for example, WFAN in New York City was the #1 billing station in the
U.S. during 2006,

Actually, WFAN was the #9 biller in the US. Both WCBS (AM) and WINS billed more.

and even though Don Imus is no longer on the air there, he
was responsible for almost half of their income, but they will still make it.
As for the smaller places, many towns are blessed to have a local station that
brings them information and programs not controlled by corporations, i know
of one in Eastern North Carolina that fits this, and is owned by a family, which
you don't see much anymore.

As time goes by, news and talk programming will move to FM signals, since very few people under 55 listen to AM any more. WFAN, by the way, was not even top 15 in the ratings in NY.

However, a time will come when a lot of AM outlets may be moved to the FM
band, especially if the FCC decides to phase AM out.

AM will go away all on its own, and the smart operators will put talk formats on FMs in each market. There is no way to give new FM channels, as, outside of very rural areas, there are no channels available for 4,800 moves to FM.

 

[wnmb]

Shut down AM? I don't think so. In my marketplace there is a sea of media. We've got the group operations and overdone processing on FM and all the things other markets have, which makes it nice for me. My "little" 500 watt AM Radio station serves its community of license, which is something most of the FM stations don't even understand. Of course, since many of them don't even have studios or offices in the their city of license it's no wonder. We do the local news, stay really involved in the community, and play music. Yes we even play music on AM! It's a combination of "oldies" and "Beach Music". It works. Business was at a record level last year. We increased our income by over a hundred thousand dollars, and I suspect we outbilled several FM stations in the area. All of this is not to brag or be arrogant, because we sure do make mistakes. However, it does show that AM radio still can work. Our formula is to "do our thing" and let everything else take care of itself. Besides, if we got shut down, there are a couple of FM stations in the market that wouldn't be able to figure out new sales leads or their playlist.

 

[Nashsound]

Bill,
I'm always happy to read about AM guys who are still making it. Congrats