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SONGS YOU'D LOVE TO HEAR ON KRTH-FM!

I don't think you guys are paying attention.

The regular playlist......not the specialty shows.....is broader on WCBS. They play songs KRTH doesn't play. Not just from other genres (classic rock, 80s rock, 80s pop, 50s) but DEEPER into the traditional oldies material. Deeper Motown, deeper 60s pop, deeper 70s pop.

I would agree, though, that neither station is super exciting. They are controlled by a giant corporation too concerned with earnings to be creative. For real musical adventure, one must listen to XM, WLNG, and other outlets.

To use a beer analogy, CBS radio is Budweiser. Everybody has one every once in awhile, but nobody mistakes it for a delicious Belgian import or craft microbrew.
 
Your right Scooty430...KRTH does play Evil Ways, Suavecito, Low Rider and Black Magic Woman, Viva Tirado, even Smooth (1999) every so often. It's what the Hispanics in L.A. like. They are all great songs, no doubt. But no need to play them so frequently, especially on 70's at 7. But if that's what KRTH wants to do, fine..more redundancy for most everyone else listening to the station. Those are not the only 70's songs on "earth"!
 
Actually WCBS has better specialty weekends. Have you heard the Top 20 countdown on Sunday nights??
Last week was 1974, the week before 1981.. To hear "Rapture" by Blondie on the air again after 27 years was something!!
 
scooty430 said:
Nope. That sample is mid-day, weekday. Not a specailty show.

And I am telling you that a Mediabase comparison of songs played in regular programming on each station gives a slight advantage to KRTH. What I mean by that is all 168 hours of the week on each station less specialty shows. MediaBase is what radio and the music industry uses and allows us to look at hours, weeks, days, etc. back for years and years. You looked at a few hours. I looked at everything from Jan 5 to yesterday.

WCBS plays a much larger variety.

No, reality says you are seriously wrong.

I'm not sure what this MediaBase "monitor" says, but the actual playlists tell a very clear story.

MediaBase give really accurate monitors of all songs played by hundreds and hundreds of stations, and which can be viewed as a log (hour by hour sequential play) or a single day playlist, lists by currents, recurrents, and gold, comparitive lists of multiple stations showing total plays per station and total all station plays, add lists by station, group or format, etc., etc., etc. It's the gold standard for music play monitoring and has historical data for many stations going back nearly a decade.

If you want to sit down and record the two playlists, 10am to 8pm weekdays, side by side, for a week, be my guest.

I did better. I looked at all nbon-specialty show plays for the entire 168 hours of each week.

By the way, the standard for peak hour listening is 6 AM to 7 PM, not 10 to 8.

But Latinos and "transients" (many of whom come from New York and Boston, by the way)

Oh, jeeze. Most of the non-Hispanic white migrants to LA over the last 30 years come from the plains states. There are dozens if not hundreds of demographic studies about this.

The Hispanics come from Central America and Mexico.

only like about 200 songs, played over and over. That is because.....well, I don't know, really. But studies show that people that have moved from other cities only like small playlists. I guess the move makes them want to hear Brown Eyed Girl a lot - it's like comfort food.

Jeeze again. Since it can be proven that the regular playlists are about the same, the non-Hispanic white audience share is comparable, and LA is not New York, why not just realize that the stuff that CBS-FM plays is inappropriate for the mood and the audience and the history of the LA market.

The Latinos like four songs: "Low Rider," "Black Magic Woman," "Suavecito," and "Evil Ways."

Actually, Hispanics don't like those songs. They are played out among Hispanics. Non Hispanic whites like them, for some reason. You are doing racial profiling for music taste. Offensive and wrong.

It helps to play these a couple times a day. And of course the random Selena song from 92 had a huge effect on ratings. Many Latinos listen to hours and hours of KRTH songs from the 60s and 70s to hear that one Selena song. Great programming decision.

You are bordering on being racially and ethnically offensive as well as just being plain stupid. Stop it.

Puh-lease! One of the biggest groups that loved Oldies, REAL Oldies, as in Huggy Boy and KRLA, was the Latino community. Yes, as in Elvis and the Everly Brothers. The whole "let's play lots of Santana" idea is a rather sad white man's idea of how to appeal to Latinos.

Now you are stereotyping and are truly offensive. Crawl back in you cave, take the iPod with all your favorite oldies with you, and leave the rest of us alone. Racism has no place in discussing playlists.






[/quote]
 
scooty430 said:
I don't think you guys are paying attention.

Yeah I am. How can I make this clearer? KRTH plays more titles from the 60's & 70's than WCBS plays from the 50's 60's 70's and 80's combined. I'm not "guessing" I can tell you FOR CERTAIN.

The regular playlist......not the specialty shows.....is broader on WCBS. They play songs KRTH doesn't play. Not just from other genres (classic rock, 80s rock, 80s pop, 50s) but DEEPER into the traditional oldies material. Deeper Motown, deeper 60s pop, deeper 70s pop.

What does "broader" mean to you? They play less songs, but go deeper?? So they play different and fewer songs.
So they make the decision to play the "not as big hits" instead of the ones that typically do well with listeners, is that what you're suggesting??
By the way, that's a myth. KRTH as oldies stations go, tends to go pretty deep at times.


I would agree, though, that neither station is super exciting. They are controlled by a giant corporation too concerned with earnings to be creative. For real musical adventure, one must listen to XM, WLNG, and other outlets.

Who suggested they weren't very good stations? Both KRTH and WCBS are fine stations.
Yes, get away from corporate...go to those non-corporate XM guys who are probably running it out of a garage.
C'mon.

To use a beer analogy, CBS radio is Budweiser. Everybody has one every once in awhile, but nobody mistakes it for a delicious Belgian import or craft microbrew.

I don't follow that at all. But if its any consolation. The best selling beer in America is Bud Light, proving once again that
less is more. Just like a station's playlist.
 
scooty430 said:
The Latinos like four songs: "Low Rider," "Black Magic Woman," "Suavecito," and "Evil Ways." It helps to play these a couple times a day. And of course the random Selena song from 92 had a huge effect on ratings. Many Latinos listen to hours and hours of KRTH songs from the 60s and 70s to hear that one Selena song. Great programming decision.

Really? I suppose Latinos must be big on "Oye Como Va" too.
Do you have your own market data?
If so, I'm curious if any white listeners care for Motown? Or why Beatles records sold in Japan?

Just because it seems from your impeccable market research that listeners will only listen to music by artists
of their own race. I was unaware of that.
 
WCBS does play deeper songs..meaning songs that did not chart very high, ie..positions 10 -39 or even outside the Top 40 and it's true every once in a while!!

KRTH may play "Solitary Man" a song that peaked at #55 in 1966!!

BacknUssR & DavidEduardo...why don't you listen to WCBS & KRTH online for a whole day (8am-10pm) and compare the music..seriously.

Data may tell you one thing (mediabase), but the ear may tell you otherwise!! VARIETY & DEPTH are the keywords here.

And do listen to their Sunday night countdown tonight at 10pm eastern and tell us what you think.

Does KRTH do this??
 
oldies76 said:
WCBS does play deeper songs..meaning songs that did not chart very high, ie..positions 10 -39 or even outside the Top 40 and it's true every once in a while!! KRTH may play "Solitary Man" a song that peaked at #55 in 1966!!

In the 60's and 70's, the population of the US was concentrated in the Northeast. So sales, charts, etc., reflected a very unhealthy influence of the NE US, and the very different playlists of the South and West were not well reflected.

A song that was #1 in the West that got light play and sales in the Northeast might well not even hit the top 50. Add to that the fact that you persist in ignoring that the charts were very tainted by record company practices that made them less than perfect.

In any case, it is not about chart position in the past... it is about passion for the song today. Many high charting songs are hated today, and many that scored lower originally have turned out to be keepers.

The chart position way back then is irrelevant. It is not about "playing deeper" but playing better songs for today.

BacknUssR & DavidEduardo...why don't you listen to WCBS & KRTH online for a whole day (8am-10pm) and compare the music..seriously. Data may tell you one thing (mediabase), but the ear may tell you otherwise!! VARIETY & DEPTH are the keywords here.

I have no idea what you mean by variety and depth, but then again your understanding of the tastes of anyone but yourself is near zero.

KRTH and CBS have comparable sized playlists (the number of different titles in rotation) outside of specialty shows. That is proven by "having" MediaBase monitor each station to detect each song played.

You know that when CBS has its famous specialty shows, they are in dayparts when nearly nobody listens either to them or to radio at all. Those CBS specialty shows are intended to reduce the criticisms of the change to mostly 70's music by appearing to play other stuff... you sure bought this little CBS head game big time!!!!

Again, the major difference between the two is the 2,500 miles between LA and NY. The two cities have nither the same ethnic makeup, the same musical history, the same lifestyle nor the same pace of living. That alone should make anyone with over 6 oz. of brain realize that two stations in the same format are going to be very different in each city. Get it?

And do listen to their Sunday night countdown tonight at 10pm eastern and tell us what you think.
Does KRTH do this??

Who really cares? Nobody is listening at 10 PM Sunday (about 1/12th of the available audience of a Monday morning, for example) so they could play Yummy Yummy backwards for an hour and it would not affect ratings.

On Sunday at 10PM CBS is 13th with 10,000 AQH listeners in 25-54. from 10 to 11 AM, M-F, they have 80,000 listeners in the same demo and are 5th in the market. So go figure what the appeal of your favorite show is.... none. It kills them.
 
Exactly DE-

WCBS sounds great for New York and KRTH sounds great for LA. They both seem to pick up the vibe of the cities they're in.

And I think everyone on here puts too much credence in data and research. Good programming comes from the gut and I would bet that in this format, a healthy percentage of music selection is not researched based....it's gut/good taste based!
 
airpab said:
And I think everyone on here puts too much credence in data and research. Good programming comes from the gut and I would bet that in this format, a healthy percentage of music selection is not researched based....it's gut/good taste based!

If you think that, you are wrong.
 
So, not one song is put on the air without it having been tested and researched?

Not saying it's not true, but I find that so hard to believe in a non-currents based format? To me, it doesn't make sense? There are literally 1000's of good songs from each era (60's, 70's, 80's). So how can you research all of them and with a wide enough base of people...and get an accurate read on what would work and what wouldn't?
 
I guess someone with over 12 thousand posts knows all about it!! I give up...it's NOT the way I'd ever program an oldies / classic hits station. I'm for the listener and if they want to hear any given song within the format, they'll hear it. Obviously if WCBS and WLNG and others can get away with it, so can others. Like airpab says.."Good Programming comes from the gut", do what you think is best. Radio is not like the way it used to be and will never be! But thankfully, other stations like WLNG and WCBS and others are trying to buck the trend of unlistenable radio, and do what's right...pleasing their audiences, whether in small or huge markets..it does not matter.
 
airpab said:
So, not one song is put on the air without it having been tested and researched?

I doubt it. Except for specialty show songs and "songs with an excuse" (like a morning show play of a song based on it being topical), regular rotation songs are tested. By the way, "testing" and "researching" are synonyms here.

Not saying it's not true, but I find that so hard to believe in a non-currents based format?

That is where music tests are vital, as the songs have different wear characteristics. Some peak and valley with play, some are consistent. Rotations are constantly adjusted to reflect burn and scores going up or down.

To me, it doesn't make sense? There are literally 1000's of good songs from each era (60's, 70's, 80's). So how can you research all of them and with a wide enough base of people...and get an accurate read on what would work and what wouldn't?

You don't test tens of thousands of songs. A station like KRTH has researched probably every song that got any significant LA airplay, but if you test a song multiple times and it is totally negative every time, you don't test it any more.

What gets tested are songs that you already play, some songs that seem to bounce in an out of the cutoff score range, and some what-if songs (more recent ones, songs played in movies, etc., and even songs played on similar formats in comparable markets).

Some classic hits stations will test as many as 1200 to 1300 songs, even though the playlist is somewhere around 500. They will do two sessions of just over 2 hours with a very tightly controlled recruit and test about 600 songs in each session against the same people.

The average size of a music test is about 100 persons. This is because, usually, anything over 70 to 80 replicates faithfully so there is no advantage to adding sample as it adds nothing to accuracy. Again, the recruit is critical, which is why it is important to verify it with various challenge questions and not use responses from unacceptable respondents.

Current based stations use call out and web research, and some don't even do auditorium music tests... the list is so small it is not necessary.
 
BACKnUSSR said:
scooty430 said:
The Latinos like four songs: "Low Rider," "Black Magic Woman," "Suavecito," and "Evil Ways." It helps to play these a couple times a day. And of course the random Selena song from 92 had a huge effect on ratings. Many Latinos listen to hours and hours of KRTH songs from the 60s and 70s to hear that one Selena song. Great programming decision.

Really? I suppose Latinos must be big on "Oye Como Va" too.
Do you have your own market data?
If so, I'm curious if any white listeners care for Motown? Or why Beatles records sold in Japan?

Just because it seems from your impeccable market research that listeners will only listen to music by artists
of their own race. I was unaware of that.

Read the post regarding Latino listening more carefully. It is not racist; in fact I'm criticizing that kind of thinking. Luckily Oldies 76 got it.
 
DavidEduardo said:
airpab said:
And I think everyone on here puts too much credence in data and research. Good programming comes from the gut and I would bet that in this format, a healthy percentage of music selection is not researched based....it's gut/good taste based!

If you think that, you are wrong.

Then why are stations overall losing listeners?

And why do very heavily researched formats like Movin', all the various Stars, KBIG, etc. sometimes tank in the ratings?
 
scooty430 said:
Then why are stations overall losing listeners?

And why do very heavily researched formats like Movin', all the various Stars, KBIG, etc. sometimes tank in the ratings?

Radio is losing listeners at a very slow rate... about 15% over the last 25 years. That is surprisingly little considering all the other entertainment options, ranging from computers and video games and the internet and CDs and now iPods and satellite and such.

All LA formats are "heavily researched." And the Yankees spend more on players than anyone, but don't always win the World Series.

Star was a format that billed in the past among the top 5 or 6 in the market. As the competitive array changed, and music tastes modified, it lost some of its buzz. Seacrest was moved to KIIS, hurting it more. It now has to find a new direction.

KBIG was always the CCU "Wall Of Women" centerpiece, covering 25-54 with equal audience in each 10-year sub-cell. It billed very high, and got great female Hispanic numbers. But changes in music and such required it to modify also.

Movin' was effectively blocked by 92.3 and the people who said they would like such a blend did not come to listen... it was not compelling enough.

All this are issues of a changing market, enhanced by the fact that you do not have anything but the useless 12+ numbers to base your opinions on. None of these are research issues. Research is like a power saw: in the hands of someone skilled, very useful... in the hands of a chimpanzee, very dangterous.

KLVE and KSCA are highly researched, too. And they are, consitently, #1 and #2 in 25-54 and have been most of the time since 1995 and 1997 respectively. Good research, well applied and interpreted.
 
oldies76 said:
WCBS does play deeper songs..meaning songs that did not chart very high, ie..positions 10 -39 or even outside the Top 40 and it's true every once in a while!!

KRTH may play "Solitary Man" a song that peaked at #55 in 1966!!

BacknUssR & DavidEduardo...why don't you listen to WCBS & KRTH online for a whole day (8am-10pm) and compare the music..seriously.

Data may tell you one thing (mediabase), but the ear may tell you otherwise!! VARIETY & DEPTH are the keywords here.

And do listen to their Sunday night countdown tonight at 10pm eastern and tell us what you think.

Does KRTH do this??

I don't think these guys listen too much. They look at spreadsheets and such.

Any music fan can listen to the two stations and instantly know WCBS is playing more songs. Perhaps in a given week KRTH has a higher count or whatever. But KRTH tends to play the same songs week after week. WCBS plays different songs each week, each month. It's a bigger, broader list.

Do it this way. Name a song KRTH plays that WCBS would never play. You can't. WCBS plays every song that KRTH plays. Maybe not this week, but eventually.

Now name songs WCBS plays that KRTH does not. Easy.

Having said that, KRTH is smart to exclude some of those 80s tunes and the classic rock. Overplayed and doesn't fit. But playing deeper tracks and some 50s stuff would be very welcome.
 
oldies76 said:
I guess someone with over 12 thousand posts knows all about it!! I give up...it's NOT the way I'd ever program an oldies / classic hits station. I'm for the listener and if they want to hear any given song within the format, they'll hear it. Obviously if WCBS and WLNG and others can get away with it, so can others. Like airpab says.."Good Programming comes from the gut", do what you think is best. Radio is not like the way it used to be and will never be! But thankfully, other stations like WLNG and WCBS and others are trying to buck the trend of unlistenable radio, and do what's right...pleasing their audiences, whether in small or huge markets..it does not matter.

EVERY SINGLE song on CBS-FM has been tested. EVERY ONE.
 
Looking at the responses and the "brilliance" of people who should know better, but continue the same old way of thinking, terrestrial and satellite radio will all toilet out from self indulgence and just plain bad radio. It took more than a fantastic song, but true marketing genius and know how to be successful in broadcasting then or now. It also means the bean counters need to go back to their cubby holes and do what they do best and it isn't with their noses in programming. Only over 60 year old adults listen to Oldies? Do some research. It's that old advertising "rule" about no one over 60 having money to spend on sponsor product that needs to be dragged kicking and screaming into this millenium. It's also hysterical to watch accolades given to stations that receive a 3.6, or a 4, or a 5, 6, 7 or 8 rating point in the Arbitron. Say your station just pulled an 8! Wow! That means 92% of the audience won't listen to you and from the latest trends, KRTH is beginning a little downward spiral from the mediocre rating it had before this trend. With the current programmming team and burocracy at CBS in place, the station doesn't have a chance. The satellite networks are really worse, because they don't have commercials to use as an excuse for losing subscribers and with the money they hemmorage monthly, the merger idea will only make two awfully programmed networks one bigger mess. Where is Drake when you need him?? I think, sitting back and grinning at the business of radio....if there is any left.
 
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