SONGS YOU'D LOVE TO HEAR ON KRTH-FM!

[OCradiodude]

Why would research... meaning asking listeners to hear a song and score it... not be able to do what is intended for oldies or classic hits?

No, there are not. Every song from the 50's and 60's and 70's and 80's has been tested. Stations know, among the songs from the era they cover, what ones are playable.

One thing you find out quickly is that a song that tested horribly a few years back will not improve with age... it actually gets less and less playable.

Songs are not researched in a focus group. And focus groups never have 100 persons... 10 to 12 is the general maximum. See http://www.davidgleason.com/Radio Research.htm for an explanation and pictures of a music test.

Songs are tested in a meeting room setting. Respondents either have an electronic dial or a paper score sheet, and hear the hooks from as many as 600 songs in a 2-hour session. If we want to test more songs, we have them come back a second night for more of the same.

That is exactly what music research tells you. In a PPM world, you make the mistakes in the test, not on the air.

Thanks for the link regarding music testing.
You say that every song from the 50s, 60s, 70s, and 80s has been tested. Who keeps track of this? Is there a certain company or organization that you could point me to?

 

[davideduardo]

Thanks for the link regarding music testing.

You are welcome.

You say that every song from the 50s, 60s, 70s, and 80s has been tested. Who keeps track of this? Is there a certain company or organization that you could point me to?

What I meant is that, since most oldies stations have been in format for some time, we have tested, over time, every possible song. Since we always test more songs than we can play, there are plenty of chances to try other songs. And very often, we test songs that were just below usable to see if they may have rested and usable again.

Music research is is proprietary, as it costs stations a lot of money and is a "competitive edge" of some significance.

 

[oldies76]

BacknUSSR

Are you listening to WCBS online perhaps??
They play a lot of that instrumental stuff to cover up spot breaks...its NOT on the air.
Yes, they played it at 1:29 in the morning...Check out the Mediabase list of songs played on CBS..very interesting!!

There's a link on the Home page of WCBS "song played".

I actually did not hear it, but it's listed, so it must have been played. I have a copy of it, so I'm familiar with this song. Cool song!!

 

[scooty430]

WABC (under Rick Sklar)and KHJ & KFRC (in the Drake days) were NOTORIOUSLY slow to jump on new music. Those stations were methodically programmed and the station playlists were a FRACTION of what you'd find on KRTH or WCBS FM today. It sometimes humors me to hear people say "the station doesnt play enough songs" or "you play the same songs over and over" and then in the next breath, wish we could be "more like KHJ or WABC" musically.

All good points. I remember WABC used to play the #1 song just about every single hour, usually around 5-10 minutes after the TOH. It got sickening and I usually found myself switching to WIBG Philadelphia. Sometimes, nighttime DJ Hy Lit would not even play the #1 song on the WIBBAGE Top 99 because he wanted to get newer songs on. Especially if the #1 song was more MOR i.e. "Everybody Loves Somebody". But WIBG stopped playing "Satisfaction" after it was #1 for its 4th or 5th consecutive week. They usually didn't keep a song at #1 for more than 3 weeks tops. Quite different from NYC stations.

So by playing "My Girl" 4-5 times a day, KRTH did emulate those days of WABC!

Comparing KRTH to KHJ in its day is an apples and oranges comparison. Those songs were new at the time.

I remember as a kid sitting around listening for the next airing of new songs on my local Top 40. At one point I knew, for example, "We Will Rock You" and "We Are the Champions" would come on about every two hours. (I was 8 years old, so excuse the poor taste!) If they could have played it even more often I would have been happier.

Fast forward to 2008. We Will Rock You is not exactly a heavily played song, except in baseball parks, so let's use Brown Eyed Girl. I'm sure people were eager to hear that in 1967. But after 40 years of nonstop airplay, it's a little stale.

Let's calculate. Say a person who heard Brown Eyed Girl when it was new has listened to radio fairly regularly. Imagine he's heard Brown Eyed Girl once a week. That would mean he's heard it 2000 times! If he's heard it every other day, the total comes up to 10,000.

 

[scooty430]

(David Eduardo) You know that when CBS has its famous specialty shows, they are in dayparts when nearly nobody listens either to them or to radio at all. Those CBS specialty shows are intended to reduce the criticisms of the change to mostly 70's music by appearing to play other stuff... you sure bought this little CBS head game big time!!!!
If nobody or few listened to the shows, why are they airing them then??
The Sunday night countdowns already feature "this week" in the 70's or 80's or 60's, so why would they be playing "other stuff". They still play 60's and some late 50's daily..so not all is lost or "criticized"

Just admit it..WCBS has a bigger bank of hits available to play..not just the same 500 songs over and over, like KRTH does.

Oldies 76...

If you like countdown shows, aside from the WCBS one, here's a few others. Some are on XM, which is worth the 10 bucks a month to hear online.

XM "Moments to Remember" does a Top 5 countdown from a date 1950-1956. This is a pretty odd period musically, before rock and roll but after swing. Pretty much all forgotten music. It airs Sundays 4-6, followed by a good LATE 50s show, "Pink and Black Days."

XM also has the "Sweet Sixteen" show each day, the top 16 or so songs from a particular year in the 60s. They start off Monday with 1960, then Tuesday 1961, etc. After two weeks, they've hit 1969 and they start over. 7-8pm every weekday. Warning: the DJ who hosts this imitates the style of the 60s blabbermouth DJS, so it can get annoying.

Another XM feature is the old Casey Kasem countdowns, airing on XM Sat and Sun Mornings, and Wed and Thurs night. Sat/Wed is a 70s countdown, and Sun/Thurs is an 80s countdown. Since it's Top 40 (not 20) you REALLY hear some forgotten stuff. (Some deservedly forgotten!)

Chuck Cecil's Swingin' Years really goes back far. Chuck does a Top 10 from a particular year 1935-1955. His show is on KCSN from 8-12 pm Sunday, with the countdown part starting at 10:30. It's also on Sat and Sun mornings on K-Jazz from 6-9am, with the countdown part starting at 8:15 Sunday. Chuck has been on the air nonstop since 1956, apparently the longest running radio show in the US, maybe the world.

WLNG does not have a countdown show, but they have "Sock Hop Saturday Night" which plays only pre-Beatles rock and roll for four hours. It's on 5-9pm (west coast time.)

WTEA in Cambria, California. Not online at this point, but if you're driving up the coast, they do live countdowns from the 50s on Fridays. This station is geared to seniors who've retired up there. A real throwback to the easy listening days - a mix of jazz, standards, vocal pop. This is the only countdown I know of that covers the late 50s. Too bad they're not online, as I only make that drive a couple times a year.

KFOG 10@10. KFOG is out of San Francisco. This isn't a countdown show, but a selection of 10 songs from a particular year. They cover the years 1967 up to ten years ago. (So each year, another year is added.) The host, Dave Morey, does an excellent job of selecting songs - more of a rock slant - from each year, along with news clips and soundbites. Sometimes they do a theme show, such as "Tax" music or "St. Patties" day music. Online and on the air, the show is at 10AM and 10PM every day. Saturday morning they play all the 10@10s back to back starting at 7AM. The show is so popular that KFOG's HD channel is nothing but 10@10.

Between all those countdowns, you're covered from 1935 to 1985. Happy listening!

 

[SuperRadioFan]

Let's calculate. Say a person who heard Brown Eyed Girl when it was new has listened to radio fairly regularly. Imagine he's heard Brown Eyed Girl once a week. That would mean he's heard it 2000 times! If he's heard it every other day, the total comes up to 10,000.

Scooty IIRC "Brown Eyed Girl" was not much of a hit in 1967 its year of release. So since very few stations played "recurrents" back then (that term most likely wasn't even in existence back then LOL!) the Van Morrison staple didn't achieve wide spread airplay until the time when "oldies" radio stations started popping up in the 70s. But some listener not familiar with that aspect (not meaning you of course) of songs becoming much bigger on oldies radio compared to their original success ... that listener might think that song was a huge hit. Some songs just test well today.

WTEA in Cambria, California. Not online at this point, but if you're driving up the coast, they do live countdowns from the 50s on Fridays. This station is geared to seniors who've retired up there. A real throwback to the easy listening days - a mix of jazz, standards, vocal pop. This is the only countdown I know of that covers the late 50s. Too bad they're not online, as I only make that drive a couple times a year.

You mean KTEA ... Yes that's decent station... Looks like they run off the same tower as KPYG does though the 2 stations have different ERP .. 25kw for KPYG and 6kw for KTEA.

 

[SuperRadioFan]

KFOG 10@10. KFOG is out of San Francisco. This isn't a countdown show, but a selection of 10 songs from a particular year. They cover the years 1967 up to ten years ago. (So each year, another year is added.) The host, Dave Morey, does an excellent job of selecting songs - more of a rock slant - from each year, along with news clips and soundbites. Sometimes they do a theme show, such as "Tax" music or "St. Patties" day music. Online and on the air, the show is at 10AM and 10PM every day. Saturday morning they play all the 10@10s back to back starting at 7AM. The show is so popular that KFOG's HD channel is nothing but 10@10.

Forgot to mention in my above post that WXPK 107.1 The Peak (AAA) Westchester County outside of NYC -- "in New York's Backyard" -- does the same thing... 10@10... "Ten great songs from one great year" and like KFOG it's heard at 10 am and repeated at 10 pm.

From today's 10@10 1971--

10AM - 11AM Time Artist Title
10:02 AM Graham Nash - Chicago
10:06 AM Janis Joplin - Move Over
10:10 AM 5 Man Electrical Band - Signs
10:14 AM Doors - Love Her Madly
10:18 AM James Taylor - You've Got A Friend
10:22 AM Led Zeppelin - Four Sticks
10:27 AM Ringo Starr - It Don't Come Easy
10:30 AM Isaac Hayes - Theme From Shaft
10:34 AM David Bowie - Kooks
10:37 AM The Who - Won't Get Fooled Again

Here's the link to WXPK's stream:

http://www.jetcast.com/em-popup-esplayer.phtml?feedlink=1190&noad=1

WXPK home page:
http://www.1071thepeak.com/

 

[oldies76]

(Scooty430) If you like countdown shows, aside from the WCBS one, here's a few others. Some are on XM, which is worth the 10 bucks a month to hear online.

Scooty430, thanks for the insight on countdowns. I don't subscribe to XM..because I have nearly 3000 hits on my MP3 and I can hear it there.

(Scooty430) Another XM feature is the old Casey Kasem countdowns, airing on XM Sat and Sun Mornings, and Wed and Thurs night. Sat/Wed is a 70s countdown, and Sun/Thurs is an 80s countdown. Since it's Top 40 (not 20) you REALLY hear some forgotten stuff. (Some deservedly forgotten!)

I can catch Casey Kasem on some local stations here in Colorado Springs & Denver. Kool 105.1 from Denver & 106.3 in the Springs. KOOL 105.1 also does a nightly top 9 at 9, which is similar to WCBS, but 11 less songs.

It's interesting hearing the lower portion of Kasem's Top 40 countdowns. A lot of unfamiliar songs for sure!! Especially ones that were peaking or moving up or down "below the top 10" for that week.

(Scooty430) Between all those countdowns, you're covered from 1935 to 1985. Happy listening!

Once again thanks!! My specialty is 1955 thru 2005 (50 Years of Rock and Roll), with emphasis on pop hits, radio hits and some adult contemporary through those years. Not much into rap singles though..just not my style. Music from the 30's and 40's, although a significant era in pre-rock music history, does not interest me nearly as much.

By the way, have you checked out KOOL 105.1 out of Denver and an automated station (no DJ's yet) called JET 107.9 from Pueblo, Co.?? I'd think you may like these too!!

Oldies 76

 

[scooty430]

Thanks for the link regarding music testing.

You are welcome.

You say that every song from the 50s, 60s, 70s, and 80s has been tested. Who keeps track of this? Is there a certain company or organization that you could point me to?

What I meant is that, since most oldies stations have been in format for some time, we have tested, over time, every possible song. Since we always test more songs than we can play, there are plenty of chances to try other songs. And very often, we test songs that were just below usable to see if they may have rested and usable again.

Music research is is proprietary, as it costs stations a lot of money and is a "competitive edge" of some significance.

Regarding research:

"If I had asked my customers what they wanted, they would have said 'faster horses.'"

- Henry Ford

 

[scooty430]

Let's calculate. Say a person who heard Brown Eyed Girl when it was new has listened to radio fairly regularly. Imagine he's heard Brown Eyed Girl once a week. That would mean he's heard it 2000 times! If he's heard it every other day, the total comes up to 10,000.

Scooty IIRC "Brown Eyed Girl" was not much of a hit in 1967 its year of release. So since very few stations played "recurrents" back then (that term most likely wasn't even in existence back then LOL!) the Van Morrison staple didn't achieve wide spread airplay until the time when "oldies" radio stations started popping up in the 70s. But some listener not familiar with that aspect (not meaning you of course) of songs becoming much bigger on oldies radio compared to their original success ... that listener might think that song was a huge hit. Some songs just test well today.

WTEA in Cambria, California. Not online at this point, but if you're driving up the coast, they do live countdowns from the 50s on Fridays. This station is geared to seniors who've retired up there. A real throwback to the easy listening days - a mix of jazz, standards, vocal pop. This is the only countdown I know of that covers the late 50s. Too bad they're not online, as I only make that drive a couple times a year.

You mean KTEA ... Yes that's decent station... Looks like they run off the same tower as KPYG does though the 2 stations have different ERP .. 25kw for KPYG and 6kw for KTEA.

Interesting. Did not know that about Brown Eyed Girl. I looked it up and it peaked at #10, which is not that high. I wasn't alive then!

I do remember hearing it quite a bit in high school on classic rock radio. Liked it at the time, but now it's just wallpaper.

Funny I said WTEA! East coast bias. Weird, but I made that mistake twice. Once when looking them up online after a recent drive, and again in this post!

Oddly, they don't capitalize on the "tea" part of their name. In other words, they aren't "K-Tea."

 

[scooty430]

KFOG 10@10. KFOG is out of San Francisco. This isn't a countdown show, but a selection of 10 songs from a particular year. They cover the years 1967 up to ten years ago. (So each year, another year is added.) The host, Dave Morey, does an excellent job of selecting songs - more of a rock slant - from each year, along with news clips and soundbites. Sometimes they do a theme show, such as "Tax" music or "St. Patties" day music. Online and on the air, the show is at 10AM and 10PM every day. Saturday morning they play all the 10@10s back to back starting at 7AM. The show is so popular that KFOG's HD channel is nothing but 10@10.

Forgot to mention in my above post that WXPK 107.1 The Peak (AAA) Westchester County outside of NYC -- "in New York's Backyard" -- does the same thing... 10@10... "Ten great songs from one great year" and like KFOG it's heard at 10 am and repeated at 10 pm.

From today's 10@10 1971--

10AM - 11AM Time Artist Title
10:02 AM Graham Nash - Chicago
10:06 AM Janis Joplin - Move Over
10:10 AM 5 Man Electrical Band - Signs
10:14 AM Doors - Love Her Madly
10:18 AM James Taylor - You've Got A Friend
10:22 AM Led Zeppelin - Four Sticks
10:27 AM Ringo Starr - It Don't Come Easy
10:30 AM Isaac Hayes - Theme From Shaft
10:34 AM David Bowie - Kooks
10:37 AM The Who - Won't Get Fooled Again

Here's the link to WXPK's stream:

http://www.jetcast.com/em-popup-esplayer.phtml?feedlink=1190&noad=1

WXPK home page:
http://www.1071thepeak.com/

Looks cool. I always check out any kind of station that is interesting in some way.

I'm looking forward to the near future when (I imagine) the quality of these online streams will improve. They've come a long way since the days when they rarely even played continuously. However the sound is still pretty poor compared to over-the-air FM.

 

[scooty430]

(Scooty430) If you like countdown shows, aside from the WCBS one, here's a few others. Some are on XM, which is worth the 10 bucks a month to hear online.

Scooty430, thanks for the insight on countdowns. I don't subscribe to XM..because I have nearly 3000 hits on my MP3 and I can hear it there.

(Scooty430) Another XM feature is the old Casey Kasem countdowns, airing on XM Sat and Sun Mornings, and Wed and Thurs night. Sat/Wed is a 70s countdown, and Sun/Thurs is an 80s countdown. Since it's Top 40 (not 20) you REALLY hear some forgotten stuff. (Some deservedly forgotten!)

I can catch Casey Kasem on some local stations here in Colorado Springs & Denver. Kool 105.1 from Denver & 106.3 in the Springs. KOOL 105.1 also does a nightly top 9 at 9, which is similar to WCBS, but 11 less songs.

It's interesting hearing the lower portion of Kasem's Top 40 countdowns. A lot of unfamiliar songs for sure!! Especially ones that were peaking or moving up or down "below the top 10" for that week.

(Scooty430) Between all those countdowns, you're covered from 1935 to 1985. Happy listening!

Once again thanks!! My specialty is 1955 thru 2005 (50 Years of Rock and Roll), with emphasis on pop hits, radio hits and some adult contemporary through those years. Not much into rap singles though..just not my style. Music from the 30's and 40's, although a significant era in pre-rock music history, does not interest me nearly as much.

By the way, have you checked out KOOL 105.1 out of Denver and an automated station (no DJ's yet) called JET 107.9 from Pueblo, Co.?? I'd think you may like these too!!

Oldies 76

Somehow I thought you were in LA - I guess because you were talking about K-Earth. Even less reason for you to listen to K-Earth if you have to stream it! (I only listen in the car where I have no options.)

I'll check out those Colorado stations. KOOL definitely has "cool" call letters. I've got to say WLNG will be hard to beat - that's my basic go-to station at this point.

 

[davideduardo]

Regarding research:

"If I had asked my customers what they wanted, they would have said 'faster horses.'"

- Henry Ford

That's stupid.

Research in radio finds out what people like now and what they have liked in the past.

There is no way to predict the future, via reasearch or Miss Cleo. That is why programmers have jobs... to take today's tastes and create good radio for today. If things change, ongoing research will pick it up, and a creative programmer will adapt.

Just like Henry's first car, we do not know if people are going to like new songs we play or new talents we put on the air. Henry had to see if the cars sold; we have to find out from listeners if they like the songs we added after they have had time to become familiar with them.

 

[BACKnUSSR]

Regarding research:

"If I had asked my customers what they wanted, they would have said 'faster horses.'"

- Henry Ford

That might have been what Henry said...but you (and your children and grandchildren) could all live quite comfortably
for the rest of your lives if you had the money that Ford has spent on market research over the years.

 

[oldies76]

Scooty430

I'll check out those Colorado stations. KOOL definitely has "cool" call letters. I've got to say WLNG will be hard to beat - that's my basic go-to station at this point.
Actually the calls are KXKL 105.1 Denver (slogan is Kool, like others around the county)

A very good station, a bit like, somewhat less than WCBS, but better than KRTH with music selection.

They've got some 80's too!! Yeah, WLNG is unique to say the least!!

 

[BACKnUSSR]

Scooty430

I'll check out those Colorado stations. KOOL definitely has "cool" call letters. I've got to say WLNG will be hard to beat - that's my basic go-to station at this point.
Actually the calls are KXKL 105.1 Denver (slogan is Kool, like others around the county)

A very good station, a bit like, somewhat less than WCBS, but better than KRTH with music selection.

They've got some 80's too!! Yeah, WLNG is unique to say the least!!

I LOVE the misinformation. KXKL plays less titles than either KRTH or WCBS-F. But I guess its "like but somewhat less" than CBS but "better" than KRTH for some reason to you, and that's great.
I still am unsure what it is thats being compared. Is it the specialty shows that have you hooked? The jocks?
Those three radio stations have three very different images. Maybe thats it.
Music in regular rotation, very very close with variances due to the differences in the markets.

Example: Frankie Valli tends to test MUCH better in NYC...so you'll see more of it on CBS.
Why would LA or Denver follow suit??

 

[oldies76]

BackinUSSR I LOVE the misinformation. KXKL plays less titles than either KRTH or WCBS

Oh Boy..here we go again...

BacknUSSR Ok. I misworded my phrases..oops

What I'm saying is that the "music selection" of KXKL is more appealing, due to the timelines involved. KXKL is along the lines of WCBS, for my tastes. But is not as repetitive as KRTH. KRTH has great music, no doubt about it. It's just the frequency of the same "playlist" music being heard practically daily. The same stuff over and over, which may be fine for L.A.

The playlists of KXKL & WCBS are repetitive, sure. But they do not play the same playlisted songs, as frequent as KRTH would on a daily basis. PLUS, these two stations do have themes and some nightly countdowns AND some extra songs (rarely played, low charters, cheesies..etc..) that are inserted, that otherwise..you'd never hear. KRTH does not do this. All K-EARTH plays is it's daily rotation, with very few extras.

That's the difference!

All 3 are wonderful stations, but the differences mentioned above is why Denver & NYC appeal to me right now. Maybe someday that will change...who knows.

 

[BACKnUSSR]

BackinUSSR I LOVE the misinformation. KXKL plays less titles than either KRTH or WCBS

Oh Boy..here we go again...

BacknUSSR Ok. I misworded my phrases..oops

What I'm saying is that the "music selection" of KXKL is more appealing, due to the timelines involved. KXKL is along the lines of WCBS, for my tastes. But is not as repetitive as KRTH. KRTH has great music, no doubt about it. It's just the frequency of the same "playlist" music being heard practically daily. The same stuff over and over, which may be fine for L.A.

The playlists of KXKL & WCBS are repetitive, sure. But they do not play the same playlisted songs, as frequent as KRTH would on a daily basis. PLUS, these two stations do have themes and some nightly countdowns AND some extra songs (rarely played, low charters, cheesies..etc..) that are inserted, that otherwise..you'd never hear. KRTH does not do this. All K-EARTH plays is it's daily rotation, with very few extras.

That's the difference!

All 3 are wonderful stations, but the differences mentioned above is why Denver & NYC appeal to me right now. Maybe someday that will change...who knows.

Agreed. They appeal to YOU. Some might say that the wider "variety" from themes and countdowns and extras (rarely played, low charted and cheesises...) are a distraction for some listeners from the songs that they really want to hear.

So some might say that K-EARTH does play the "Greatest Hits" while CBS, Kool, and a few others play the "Greatest Hits and some not so great". Although, you can understand why they wouldnt position it that way (although they actually do it).

 

[oldies76]

BACKinUSSR Some might say that the wider "variety" from themes and countdowns and extras (rarely played, low charted and cheesises...) are a distraction for some listeners from the songs that they really want to hear.

Doubt that highly!! Most people would welcome a change outside their usual tastes or redunancies. It's human nature.
Eventually, people get sick of things and want something new.

BACKinUSSR So some might say that K-EARTH does play the "Greatest Hits" while CBS, Kool, and a few others play the "Greatest Hits and some not so great". Although, you can understand why they wouldnt position it that way (although they actually do it.

AND some may say that K-EARTH does play the "Greatest Hits and some not so great" Don't forget that side of the equation too!!

 

[davideduardo]

Doubt that highly!! Most people would welcome a change outside their usual tastes or redunancies. It's human nature.
Eventually, people get sick of things and want something new.

Real research with real persons finds that, prticularly above age 25, there is resistence to new music and, particularly, with unfamiliar music. All you have to do is put a few such things in a music test for any format and you will see how much... almost violently... such music is rejected by 95% or more of the audience.

AND some may say that K-EARTH does play the "Greatest Hits and some not so great" Don't forget that side of the equation too!!

Actually, for the group of listeners in LA who would embrace such a station and make it their P1 or, at least, P2 choice, I would bet every single non-specialty show song is considered pretty positively if not totally great by all the individuals in the potential listener base.