Which is the bigger "tune out" factor?

[oldies76]

If the broader playlist on weekends made the difference in WCBS-FM's popularity, then why would listeners settle for the more conventional music five out of seven days?

Well, that happens with any station (I suppose). You have the listen-at-work crowd, the commuters..etc.. The overall point I'm trying to make is that CBS-FM's overall selection of classics covers more ground than a typical classic hits station. Weekends are just icing on the cake.

 

[Thomps2525]

Some of you here may not know about Long Island's oldies station, WLNG. You can listen online at http://www.wlng.com/

Four years ago (under my "regular" screen name, not my "professional" one) I posted a 1370-song sample of their playlist at http://xmfan.com/viewtopic.php?t=99611

WLNG boasts a 10,000-song playlist.

I've never heard anyone complain about the station. There ya go!

 

[CTListener]

Admittedly, that was the 7-8PM hour on New Year's Eve...might not be a fair representation. So here's what they played between 10 and 11 this morning:

Pat Benatar: Love Is A Battlefield
Miracles: Tears Of A Clown
Wings: Band On The Run
Samantha Sang: Emotion
John Mellencamp: Small Town
Foundations: Baby Now That I've Found You
Three Degrees: When Will I See You Again
George Michael: One More Try
Blondie: Heart of Glass
KC And The Sunshine Band: Shake Your Booty
Rolling Stones: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Pretenders: Brass In Pocket (I'm Special)


And again...nothing I haven't heard on KOOL, nothing especially daring and I'll bet every one of them tests really well.

Much better but wouldn't get me to tune in. I know, I'm a hard case but I don't consider Oldies/CH to be merely aged songs from any decade.

And I'm disappointed.....you didn't guess which one was the Oldie. ;D

I'm sorry, Landtuna...well, the two oldest songs would be more or less a tie between Barry White and Grand Funk. But I suspect there's more to it.

I'd say the Grand Funk song would be the classic hit. The White song is just an old disco tune.

 

[CTListener]

And here's what WDRC-FM Hartford played between 1 and 2 p.m.:

We Just Disagree--Dave Mason
We Will Rock You/We Are the Champions -- Queen
Wedding Song -- Paul Stookey
Weekend in New England -- Barry Manilow
Welcome Back -- John Sebastian
We're All Alone -- Rita Coolidge
We're an American Band -- Grand Funk Railroad
Werewolves of London -- Warren Zevon
We've Got Tonight -- Bob Seger
We've Only Just Begun -- Carpenters
What a Fool Believes -- Doobie Brothers
What Is Life -- George Harrison

Of course, this was an hour of the annual "Big D, A to Z" post-Christmas playlist blowout -- all the '70s titles in the old hard drive alphabetically. It wound up at 6:56 with David Bowie's "Ziggy Stardust." And I'll let you guess how many -- and which -- of these songs get played during normal programming hours. It's not many, as DRC has really slashed its playlist over the past couple of years.

 

[Thomps2525]

Mister CT, please e-mail WDRC and ask what happened to Zoom, Zoom Zoom Zoom, Zoot Suit Riot, Zorba The Greek and Zorro.

There was a time in the 1990s when the active playlist of KRTH in Los Angeles was down to a measly 330 songs. When KOST program director Jhani Kaye moved over to KRTH in early 2009, he added a lot of 1970s-80s songs and dropped almost all the pre-1964 songs. Among the few exceptions: Shout, You Send Me and La Bamba. "Oldies" became "classic hits"---and I keep wondering why pre-1964 songs can't also be considered "classic hits." Anyway, KRTH now plays slightly more than 1000 songs. Almost all of them are top-ten hits and there are very few instrumentals or AC hits. It's true what was said earlier: Songs that were number one "then" aren't necessarily number one "now." Few people want to hear Disco Duck or You Light Up My Life or Heartbeat It's A Lovebeat in 2013...and no programmer is ever going to cater to the few of us "oldies freaks" who still want to hear every song that ever charted. Well, maybe at the aforementioned WLNG...but I can't think of another example.

 

[landtuna]

I'm sorry, Landtuna...well, the two oldest songs would be more or less a tie between Barry White and Grand Funk. But I suspect there's more to it.

I guess if Pat Boone could pump out Oldies then Barry White could be considered an Oldie as well but my choice, as you have guessed correctly, was Grand Funk - but not because of age. Rather because of both membership in the Oldies decades and the spirit of RnR. Springsteen isn't the only Boss!

Congratulations!

 

[michael hagerty]

And here's what WDRC-FM Hartford played between 1 and 2 p.m.:

We Just Disagree--Dave Mason
We Will Rock You/We Are the Champions -- Queen
Wedding Song -- Paul Stookey
Weekend in New England -- Barry Manilow
Welcome Back -- John Sebastian
We're All Alone -- Rita Coolidge
We're an American Band -- Grand Funk Railroad
Werewolves of London -- Warren Zevon
We've Got Tonight -- Bob Seger
We've Only Just Begun -- Carpenters
What a Fool Believes -- Doobie Brothers
What Is Life -- George Harrison

Of course, this was an hour of the annual "Big D, A to Z" post-Christmas playlist blowout -- all the '70s titles in the old hard drive alphabetically. It wound up at 6:56 with David Bowie's "Ziggy Stardust." And I'll let you guess how many -- and which -- of these songs get played during normal programming hours. It's not many, as DRC has really slashed its playlist over the past couple of years.

I'll say Dave Mason, Queen, Grand Funk, Warren Zevon, the Doobies and maybe George Harrison.

 

[landtuna]

Some of you here may not know about Long Island's oldies station, WLNG. You can listen online at http://www.wlng.com/

Four years ago (under my "regular" screen name, not my "professional" one) I posted a 1370-song sample of their playlist at http://xmfan.com/viewtopic.php?t=99611

WLNG boasts a 10,000-song playlist.

I've never heard anyone complain about the station. There ya go!

Tryin' it out now.....

 

[landtuna]

I'd say the Grand Funk song would be the classic hit.

We have a WINNAH! ;D

 

[CTListener]

And here's what WDRC-FM Hartford played between 1 and 2 p.m.:

We Just Disagree--Dave Mason
We Will Rock You/We Are the Champions -- Queen
Wedding Song -- Paul Stookey
Weekend in New England -- Barry Manilow
Welcome Back -- John Sebastian
We're All Alone -- Rita Coolidge
We're an American Band -- Grand Funk Railroad
Werewolves of London -- Warren Zevon
We've Got Tonight -- Bob Seger
We've Only Just Begun -- Carpenters
What a Fool Believes -- Doobie Brothers
What Is Life -- George Harrison

Of course, this was an hour of the annual "Big D, A to Z" post-Christmas playlist blowout -- all the '70s titles in the old hard drive alphabetically. It wound up at 6:56 with David Bowie's "Ziggy Stardust." And I'll let you guess how many -- and which -- of these songs get played during normal programming hours. It's not many, as DRC has really slashed its playlist over the past couple of years.

I'll say Dave Mason, Queen, Grand Funk, Warren Zevon, the Doobies and maybe George Harrison.

Queen, Doobies and John Sebastian, believe it or not. The only Grand Funk that still gets played regularly is "Loco-Motion" and "Bad Time." Harrison is down to "Give Me Love" and "My Sweet Lord," plus "Got My Mind Set On You" with the Wilburys and "Here Comes the Sun" with the Beatles. The Zevon, Mason and Seger tunes used to get fairly regular play, but they're on the discard heap now.

 

[michael hagerty]

Some of you here may not know about Long Island's oldies station, WLNG. You can listen online at http://www.wlng.com/

Four years ago (under my "regular" screen name, not my "professional" one) I posted a 1370-song sample of their playlist at http://xmfan.com/viewtopic.php?t=99611

WLNG boasts a 10,000-song playlist.

I've never heard anyone complain about the station. There ya go!

Honest questions:

Is Long Island a separately rated Arbitron market?

If so:

How strong is WCBS-FM's signal in the Long Island measurement area?

Is Long Island PPM or diary?

What are the ratings for WCBS-FM and for WLNG?

 

[Thomps2525]

Mister hagerty, I can answer one of those questions. That's 25%. Nassau-Suffolk, Long Island, is the #19 Arbitron market. Now who wants to answer the other three questions?

 

[davideduardo]

Is Long Island a separately rated Arbitron market?

Nassau - Suffolk is an Arbitron embedded market. It's also part of the New York radio market, but broken out as a separate book.

There used to be a Hamptons book. That is the East End of Long Island, or the far eastern part of Suffolk County. The 12+ population, IIRC, was 123,000. The book was ended 4 or 5 years ago since there was no support for the ratings... the market was too small.

How strong is WCBS-FM's signal in the Long Island measurement area?

Around Sag Harbor, the COL for WLNG, WCBS is not listenable. Maybe it comes in on the radio in a few of the Bentlys and Rolls that frequent the area... WLNG is a Class A, and does not cover most of the Nassau Suffolk market which has 2.8 million population, while WLNG puts a 60 dbu over 110,000 of them.

The WLNG transmitter is nearly 100 miles from the Empire State Building. And WLNG is the classic small town station, with lost dogs and swap-shop type stuff, although it is not as good as it once was before the death of founder and partner Paul Sidney.

Calling WLNG an oldies station is really disingenuous. It's a community station for a very remote location.

Is Long Island PPM or diary?

Nassau-Suffolk, as an embedded market, is PPM. There are a handful of meters out on the East End.

What are the ratings for WCBS-FM and for WLNG?

6+ WLNG 31st 3 book average, WCBS-FM 8th.

WCBS-FM cumes 480 thousand on average, while WLNG averages around 45 thousand.

 

[CTListener]

Mister hagerty, I can answer one of those questions. That's 25%. Nassau-Suffolk, Long Island, is the #19 Arbitron market. Now who wants to answer the other three questions?

Except WLNG doesn't serve the heavily populated section of market. They're way out on the east end, in Sag Harbor. More potential listeners on the other side of the LI Sound, in Connecticut, than there are out there in the LI sticks.

 

[davideduardo]

Mister hagerty, I can answer one of those questions. That's 25%. Nassau-Suffolk, Long Island, is the #19 Arbitron market. Now who wants to answer the other three questions?

But, and very importantly, Nassau-Suffolk, New York, is simply a portion of the New York MSA which is extracted (and subject to market level sampling proportionality).

Of a total Long Island population of 7.5 million, only 2.8 million are in Nassau and Suffolk counties, with the rest being in boroughs of New York City.

 

[davideduardo]

It's a lost cause CT......I just find it extremely hard to fathom, that an opinion of 100 auditorium testers, can represent millions. So if 100 people can dicatate what's heard on KRTH, then the other 999,900 will generally follow suit?? I don't think so......at all.

1000 people can call a US election within +/- 3%.

What percent of US voters is 1000?

In song selection, a margin of error of a couple of percent is irrelevant. While it may make all the difference in elections, it is insignificant in selecting songs to play or not to play.

Some of us have done replication studies. That means you test triple or quadruple the normal number of respondents and tabulate the results.

Then you take a balanced subset of half the sample and compare. Then you take 25% of the sample and compare. Then you take 20% of the sample and compare. What you find is that somewhere around 80 respondents the results can and will replicate and are statistically the same as the 400 people in the whole study. In fact, you can take any balanced (same percent male and female, same percent in the target age subsets) group of 80 and the results are essentially the same.

We usually test around 100 people to make sure that recruit issues, no-shows, pay-and-sends and stuff like that don't drop us below 80.

I've staked my career and reputation many a time on a 100 person test and never been let down.

 

[michael hagerty]

The WLNG transmitter is nearly 100 miles from the Empire State Building. And WLNG is the classic small town station, with lost dogs and swap-shop type stuff, although it is not as good as it once was before the death of founder and partner Paul Sidney.

Calling WLNG an oldies station is really disingenuous. It's a community station for a very remote location.

Is Long Island PPM or diary?

Nassau-Suffolk, as an embedded market, is PPM. There are a handful of meters out on the East End.

What are the ratings for WCBS-FM and for WLNG?

6+ WLNG 31st 3 book average, WCBS-FM 8th.

WCBS-FM cumes 480 thousand on average, while WLNG averages around 45 thousand.

And one last question...how does WLNG stand in that ranking against other stations licensed to Long Island?

 

[michael hagerty]

And here's what WDRC-FM Hartford played between 1 and 2 p.m.:

We Just Disagree--Dave Mason
We Will Rock You/We Are the Champions -- Queen
Wedding Song -- Paul Stookey
Weekend in New England -- Barry Manilow
Welcome Back -- John Sebastian
We're All Alone -- Rita Coolidge
We're an American Band -- Grand Funk Railroad
Werewolves of London -- Warren Zevon
We've Got Tonight -- Bob Seger
We've Only Just Begun -- Carpenters
What a Fool Believes -- Doobie Brothers
What Is Life -- George Harrison

Of course, this was an hour of the annual "Big D, A to Z" post-Christmas playlist blowout -- all the '70s titles in the old hard drive alphabetically. It wound up at 6:56 with David Bowie's "Ziggy Stardust." And I'll let you guess how many -- and which -- of these songs get played during normal programming hours. It's not many, as DRC has really slashed its playlist over the past couple of years.

I'll say Dave Mason, Queen, Grand Funk, Warren Zevon, the Doobies and maybe George Harrison.

Queen, Doobies and John Sebastian, believe it or not. The only Grand Funk that still gets played regularly is "Loco-Motion" and "Bad Time." Harrison is down to "Give Me Love" and "My Sweet Lord," plus "Got My Mind Set On You" with the Wilburys and "Here Comes the Sun" with the Beatles. The Zevon, Mason and Seger tunes used to get fairly regular play, but they're on the discard heap now.

Sebastian surprises me. Have they been playing it all along or did they bring it back when the actor who played Horshack died, the way a lot of stations have been playing "Daydream Believer" since Davy Jones' passing?

 

[davideduardo]

And one last question...how does WLNG stand in that ranking against other stations licensed to Long Island?

Well, these are the Long Island stations ahead of it...

WALK, WBLI, WBZO, WBAB, WKJY, WWSK, WSHU, WJVC,

 

[amfmsw]

There are several stiffs that get played to death.

If they get played on a station today, then today they are not stiffs.

There are #1 songs that are unplayable today, and there are #20 songs that are.

YES!!! Exactly David, and respectfully, I'm suggesting those tunes that have been ignored for years be retested. Look at that list of 100. There's nothing crazy, off the wall there (except The Cadillacs "Gloria" is just a NorthEast thing). Just fine tuned for the NJ/NY/PA area. A lot of sentimental favorites. One poster accounted for 13,000 voters. I know for a fact multiple votes were thrown out. 13k trumps 100 in my book, and these were from recall, not actual listening. The next auditorium test should include these 100 tunes that may NOW be HITS. And as a programmer, I'd be fascinated to see the 2nd hundred! I'll bet that's where the burned-out Betties wound up.

And yes, the station hasn't played Top 20 in 30 years, but was so infuential, it still has it's followers. It was the most listened to radio station in America. Period. It wasn't the first Top 40, but It set the standard. It would be hard to find anyone who grew up East of the Mississippi River over the age of 55 who did not know of, or listen to Musicradio 77WABC. 11 States Daytime coverage, 24 States at night, Canada and the Carribean. In 1969, Rated #9...in Pittsburgh, PA!

Speaking of the Northeast thing...that's another big gripe...consultants transplanting/importing research from other cities. NO! Stop it. You're doing your clients a huge disservice. Tampa to Daytona, well, ok. But Not to Philly! Nor Philly to LA. Philly/D.C/Baltimore was a '60='70's Regional Market, and has it's own sound, culture, foods, and soul roots. Much like NOLA, The Carolina Beach Sound, NYC, LA, Chicago/Detroit...all different tastes in tune texture. If you're not from this area, you'll never understand. Just try to understand today's (New Year's) Mummer's Day Parade!!! To most of you, it's men with feathers. To us, it's tradition. Like slicing a perfectly good Rib Eye steak paper thin, grilling it with carmelized onions and slathering it with provolone or Cheez-Whiz and slopping it on a hard Italian roll for a South Philly Cheese Steak. Like Candy & The Kisses "The 81" for the tongue.