WHY IS THERE ONLY ONE RAP/HIP-HOP STATION IN COLUMBUS???????????????

[Nu_Roo_2]

80s rap? The Run DMC hour? The 20 year olds don't remember. I'm also not aware of five oldies stations

you dare to challenge my intelligents! ol yee foolish one, a wise one will TELL YO ASS TO DO YOUR RESEARCH BEFORE CHALLENGING MY AUTHORITY! ???

http://www.ontheradio.net/metro/Columbus_OH.aspx

The list you linked to is really screwed up. Just for starters, despite the title it lists stations that defintely are NOT in the "Columbus OH Metro area," and hardly anyone here could receive even if they tried. Mansfield??? Not all "research" sources are created equal.

 

[Allfirdup]

80s rap? The Run DMC hour? The 20 year olds don't remember. I'm also not aware of five oldies stations

you dare to challenge my intelligents! ol yee foolish one, a wise one will TELL YO ASS TO DO YOUR RESEARCH BEFORE CHALLENGING MY AUTHORITY! ???

http://www.ontheradio.net/metro/Columbus_OH.aspx

The list you linked to is really screwed up. Just for starters, despite the title it lists stations that defintely are NOT in the "Columbus OH Metro area," and hardly anyone here could receive even if they tried. Mansfield??? Not all "research" sources are created equal.

just look at some of the stations listed, it still has 105.7 as WFJX the fox, they changed in what 2006/7 WTDA is listed as classic hits, WMRN is in Marion this list is at least 5 years out of date. so im not sure what point you are trying to make with this

 

[Rusty Blades]

1980-2006! that's three and a half decades

Actually, that's two and a half decades. Your math is as bad as your grammar.

A mind is a terrible thing to waste...

 

[Nu_Roo_2]

1980-2006! that's three and a half decades

Actually, that's two and a half decades. Your math is as bad as your grammar.

A mind is a terrible thing to waste...

Or as Bush senior's illustrious VP Dan Quayle put it,

"What a waste it is to lose one's mind. Or not to have a mind is being very wasteful. How true that is."

 

[chrisalcorn]

It doesn't make sense that a city the size of Columbus has such a piss-poor hip-hop station as WCKX. It reminds me of the now defunct WCKU we HAD in Lexington. What a joke this station was. We are so lucky to have WBTF and WGVN in the area now. How did this happen in a city the size of Lexington, I'll never know but I'm not complaining. Nothing beats going out at 5 in the morning to warm your car up and WBTF has T.I., Gucci,or Omarion knocking on the radio. You were listening to WGZB 96.5 in Louisville. B96 is a good station but WBTF is a notch better. Basically if you can beat on the sides of a garbage can with any kind of rhythm, you'll get airtime in Kentucky. What about Boston? They have NO urban. You can tell about an area by the radio you can get.

 

[Nu_Roo_2]

Basically if you can beat on the sides of a garbage can with any kind of rhythm, you'll get airtime in Kentucky.

...OR be offered a job as a radio exec in Columbus (although the rhythm part isn't required).

What about Boston? They have NO urban. You can tell about an area by the radio you can get.

So, what can we tell about the Boston area from that, other than that they have a small black population for a city that size?

Seriously, I recall how for years Milwaukee had no urban on FM. Then they got one and its been a major player ever since.

 

[chrisalcorn]

LOL, WBTF in Lexington,Ky could never make it just by it's black population. I know more white people that listen to WBTF than black. It takes a community to support a format or it won't work. WCKU thought more or the soccer moms than the community and that's why it went under.

 

[dawg4life]

Columbus is supposed to be the "hip" city in Ohio. Columbus has by far the best club scene in Ohio. And to top it off, Columbus has the largest university in the nation.

I'm a 35 year old white successful business owner that grew up in Columbus and I've always enjoyed and listened to hip hop/dance music. I also enjoy Classic Hits, Classic Rock, Active Rock, Some alternative, Standards and even Big Band. I CAN'T STAND COUNTRY MUSIC although I'm quite aware of how many people around here that do.

That being said, I don't know who the hell you radio guys are getting your research information from and why the hell you keep wasting your money on them? And please, who are these people that you're testing to see what kind of song tests well or not? Regardless, the fact remains that in a metropolis the size of Columbus that has so much to offer for some reason has THE WORST RADIO STATIONS IN THE COUNTRY for a city of it's size.

I've traveled to so many different major cities across the USA and I swear to you that 9 out of 10 times I've always said I wish Columbus had a station like this or a station like that.

But the fact remains, the more we bitch, the more it stays the same.

 

[One Who Knows]

Columbus is supposed to be the "hip" city in Ohio. Columbus has by far the best club scene in Ohio. And to top it off, Columbus has the largest university in the nation.

I'm a 35 year old white successful business owner that grew up in Columbus and I've always enjoyed and listened to hip hop/dance music. I also enjoy Classic Hits, Classic Rock, Active Rock, Some alternative, Standards and even Big Band. I CAN'T STAND COUNTRY MUSIC although I'm quite aware of how many people around here that do.

That being said, I don't know who the hell you radio guys are getting your research information from and why the hell you keep wasting your money on them? And please, who are these people that you're testing to see what kind of song tests well or not? Regardless, the fact remains that in a metropolis the size of Columbus that has so much to offer for some reason has THE WORST RADIO STATIONS IN THE COUNTRY for a city of it's size.

I've traveled to so many different major cities across the USA and I swear to you that 9 out of 10 times I've always said I wish Columbus had a station like this or a station like that.

But the fact remains, the more we bitch, the more it stays the same.

Granted, Dawg - radio is in the ear of the beholder. I've heard some decent and sometimes great radio in Columbus...and some crap, too.

And, I'll even agree the formatic choices of some of the stations in the area just completely mystify me. (Why make a rimshot country, for instance...when the reason WCOL went country in the first place in 1995 was because Columbus radio listeners were tired of rimshots with their lousy signals doing country? That's why WCOL got as big as it did as fast as it did!)

But your criticism of research...let me tell you. It works. You may not believe it. But it works. Stations are in the business to make money. Just look at why Pulse 87 went away in New York to be replaced by a more mainstream party station. Pulse wasn't making enough money. And just read how the "pulse" fans in NYC bitch, whine and moan about the New York market.

One caveat, though. Doing research doesn't help if you can't read it properly. And sometimes, that's happens. But, we get the research information from actual listeners. The panels are pre-screened. We know what stations those people listen to...and the questions are tailored to specific demographics and specific audiences. The listeners don't know they're talking to radio stations, either. I've worked at stations that did research and those that didn't. The ones who didn't were usually losers.

 

[One Who Knows]

80s rap? The Run DMC hour? The 20 year olds don't remember. I'm also not aware of five oldies stations

you dare to challenge my intelligents! ol yee foolish one, a wise one will TELL YO ASS TO DO YOUR RESEARCH BEFORE CHALLENGING MY AUTHORITY! ???

http://www.ontheradio.net/metro/Columbus_OH.aspx

Sir:

How many radio stations have you programmed? How many stations have you run?

I'll challenge your authority anytime...because you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

You could start by trying to make one point...not eighty random points based on ignorance of the subject.

Do some research on your own on something other than an internet board frequented by mostly know nothings...you might learn something.

 

[Nu_Roo_2]

Columbus is supposed to be the "hip" city in Ohio. Columbus has by far the best club scene in Ohio. And to top it off, Columbus has the largest university in the nation.

I'm a 35 year old white successful business owner that grew up in Columbus and I've always enjoyed and listened to hip hop/dance music. I also enjoy Classic Hits, Classic Rock, Active Rock, Some alternative, Standards and even Big Band. I CAN'T STAND COUNTRY MUSIC although I'm quite aware of how many people around here that do.

That being said, I don't know who the hell you radio guys are getting your research information from and why the hell you keep wasting your money on them? And please, who are these people that you're testing to see what kind of song tests well or not? Regardless, the fact remains that in a metropolis the size of Columbus that has so much to offer for some reason has THE WORST RADIO STATIONS IN THE COUNTRY for a city of it's size.

I've traveled to so many different major cities across the USA and I swear to you that 9 out of 10 times I've always said I wish Columbus had a station like this or a station like that.

But the fact remains, the more we bitch, the more it stays the same.

Granted, Dawg - radio is in the ear of the beholder.  I've heard some decent and sometimes great radio in Columbus...and some crap, too.

And, I'll even agree the formatic choices of some of the stations in the area just completely mystify me.  (Why make a rimshot country, for instance...when the reason WCOL went country in the first place in 1995 was because Columbus radio listeners were tired of rimshots with their lousy signals doing country?  That's why WCOL got as big as it did as fast as it did!)

But your criticism of research...let me tell you.  It works.  You may not believe it.  But it works.  Stations are in the business to make money.  Just look at why Pulse 87 went away in New York to be replaced by a more mainstream party station.  Pulse wasn't making enough money.  And just read how the "pulse" fans in NYC bitch, whine and moan about the New York market.

One caveat, though.  Doing research doesn't help if you can't read it properly.  And sometimes, that's happens. But, we get the research information from actual listeners.  The panels are pre-screened.  We know what stations those people listen to...and the questions are tailored to specific demographics and specific audiences.  The listeners don't know they're talking to radio stations, either.  I've worked at stations that did research and those that didn't.  The ones who didn't were usually losers.

I'm as big on research as anyone.  In fact, it's my livelihood, and has been for more years than I care to admit.  (Not in radio, although I did work with Arbitron on a non-radio PPM project for two years.)

Research helps companies win.  But it's not a simplistic, "OK, here's the answer" tool -- at least not if used properly.  When you say, "you have to know how to interpret it," that obviously helps.  But two skilled researchers can look at the same numbers, and in many (not all) cases come up with completely different conclusions -- both of which may be viable in many cases.  Way too often, management reads into it what they want to see, or what fits their preconceived notions.  Indeed, so much "research" includes a priori assumptions which may be highly incorrect and biased.  (For music testing I suppose that could be, "let's leave that song out of the testing because everyone knows it's no longer viable"). Garbage -- or insufficient data -- in, garbage out.

Then of course, there's sample bias, which can occur for a whole host of reasons (again, including -- but certainly not limited to -- biased management pushing the researcher in a certain direction).  Or just poor sample design -- e.g., limiting a test to a certain demographic when such a limit is overly-restrictive and allows profitable opportunities to escape detection.  Then there's the question of attitudinal vs. behavioral research.  One of the worst abuses of attitudinal research is using focus groups -- which are often skewed by the moderator's line of questioning (sometimes egged on by management trying to get the answer they want) or a dominant group member eliciting "oh, yeah's" from the other members -- using this tool to make decisions instead of for its proper purposes such as directing brainstorming, and informing the design of a full-blown, larger sample study.

And as much as I believe in research, there's an art to radio (and other businesses) as well.  Some of the hugest success have come from calculatedly breaking the "rules."

I could write on and on about this, but while research is vital, it is not a simple question of coming up with black-and-white "here's the one possible answer, and it is definitely correct and comprehensive" result..  Differing research types, implemetation, results, and interpretation can be highly variable in answering the same question, and there isn't always one hard-fast "right or wrong" answer.

 

[Rusty Blades]

^Um...so what are you trying to say here? Could you elaborate?

 

[Nu_Roo_2]

Columbus is supposed to be the "hip" city in Ohio. Columbus has by far the best club scene in Ohio. And to top it off, Columbus has the largest university in the nation.

I'm a 35 year old white successful business owner that grew up in Columbus and I've always enjoyed and listened to hip hop/dance music. I also enjoy Classic Hits, Classic Rock, Active Rock, Some alternative, Standards and even Big Band. I CAN'T STAND COUNTRY MUSIC although I'm quite aware of how many people around here that do.

That being said, I don't know who the hell you radio guys are getting your research information from and why the hell you keep wasting your money on them? And please, who are these people that you're testing to see what kind of song tests well or not? Regardless, the fact remains that in a metropolis the size of Columbus that has so much to offer for some reason has THE WORST RADIO STATIONS IN THE COUNTRY for a city of it's size.

I've traveled to so many different major cities across the USA and I swear to you that 9 out of 10 times I've always said I wish Columbus had a station like this or a station like that.

But the fact remains, the more we bitch, the more it stays the same.

It is sad dawg, and it's persisted for too long to blame it all on supposedly-accurate research and interpretation.

 

[Nu_Roo_2]

^Um...so what are you trying to say here?  Could you elaborate?

Research is invaluable, but for a whole host of reasons, "The research says it's so" is an overly simplistic statement that is improperly used in defense of what may actually be  poor or sub-optimal programming decisions.   Simple enough?

 

[jakej]

What proof does anyone have that ANY research has been conducted over the past few years for the benefit of any of the broadcasting companies here in Columbus? My guess is that this was the very first thing that was cut from all of their budgets, and then when they needed to save even more money after that, they started laying people off.

Tomorrow night on "Yesterday's Top Secrets" I'm going to be playing singles released by bands that I booked into Mr. Brown's from January to March way back in 1980. The club, which was at the northeast corner of Euclid and High, thus became the first venue to regularly feature live alternative music in this town, as during those three months I was given thirty-eight nights and brought in a total of thirty-nine different groups. And then right after that involvement, I started The Offense. Here's a cool article from the new issue of 614 Magazine that's primarily about That Summertime Sound, but I'm mentioned in it, and the zine, and the radio show ... and my basement!
http://614columbus.com/magazine/12-01-2009/rock-n-roll-reunion

 

[gr8oldies]

If all the research and all the research methods are wrong, what do you propose to replace it with? How would you do it better or would you just not do it. Maybe a PD is supposed to "just know" without asking his or her audience. Maybe just throw a bunch of titles on and hope something sticks? Or if the station just played your personal iPod you'd be number one. Maybe only only listen to request line callers and people who show up at remotes for free hot dogs. How would you do research better than people who do it for a living?

 

[Nu_Roo_2]

If all the research and all the research methods are wrong, what do you propose to replace it with? How would you do it better or would you just not do it. Maybe a PD is supposed to "just know" without asking his or her audience. Maybe just throw a bunch of titles on and hope something sticks? Or if the station just played your personal iPod you'd be number one. Maybe only only listen to request line callers and people who show up at remotes for free hot dogs. How would you do research better than people who do it for a living?

I used search to find out who in this thread said that all the research and research methods are wrong, but I can't that kind of global dismissal anywhere.  Maybe a post was deleted?  What comments are you referring to? Or is your point that some posters have been insisting certain formats/approaches would do well here based solely on their own preferences, when local research has suggested otherwise?

 

[gr8oldies]

If you've read Radio-Info for as long as I have those sentiments come up frequently (that all research is bad, innacurate, doesn't reflect the super fan or collector, etc)

 

[dawg4life]

If all the research and all the research methods are wrong, what do you propose to replace it with? How would you do it better or would you just not do it. Maybe a PD is supposed to "just know" without asking his or her audience. Maybe just throw a bunch of titles on and hope something sticks? Or if the station just played your personal iPod you'd be number one. Maybe only only listen to request line callers and people who show up at remotes for free hot dogs. How would you do research better than people who do it for a living?

I think I have a simple answer to your question. Research how other markets program their stations successfully and try to mimic their success.

I'm so sick of this business as usual BS. Start thinking out of the box for once and quit playing it safe. I fully understand that not all formats work the same for every market but if you don't try then you'll never know. Basically stop being vagina's and give Columbus something new. If it fails then so be it but the status quo for the last 15 years is enough to drive a normal person insane.

 

[Nu_Roo_2]

Worth a reminder here that the results of a trial are pretty much meaningless if it was on a pipsqueak signal (zillions of those hereabouts) and/or implemented poorly.  In such cases the likely failure will say virtually nada about "what works in Columbus and what doesn't" -- though people will try to make claims along those lines.

A couple examples: Dave Robbin's infamous short-lived 90's "Hot AC" that made Sunny sound like a hard rocker (mega-poor implementation -- and BTW, he blamed the debacle on "taking the research too literally," which if true corroborates my earlier point about how the same research can sometimes be interpreted multiple ways).  Or TED-FM, which led many to unjustifiably conclude that Adult Hits can't work here, when it was doomed from the start by that pipsqueak signal and questionable implementation.