LA PPM RATINGS RELEASED AUGUST 2009

[oldiesfan6479]

Geez, all we need now is the Zuma Beach guy to make a board comeback. <grin>

 

[oldies76]

You are atypical, and no station would want to try to attract you.

You're real funny....CBS-FM, 950 KRWZ Denver, WLNG and many others.

 

[scooty430]

Quote frpm scooty430
Bottom line is this: both are oldies stations in multi-ethnic, cosmopolitan cities, owned by the same company. It is simply amazing to me that nobody thinks: "Hey, in LA, let's at least TRY what is working in our #1 market."

Now, I don't mean copy the playlist or formatics exactly. KRTH sounds just like KHJ in many ways, and I think that's a good thing. What I mean is open up the playlist, do more specialty programming, play 50s to 80s, make it more local, be more engaging. Will that work? I don't know.

But I would certainly listen more, and at least Charlie Tuna would be happier!

I can agree to more specialty programming and a smattering of 50's and 80's. As for more local, more engaging, well within the boundaries of the Drake format and that of Jhani Kaye I don't think you'll see much room for that, but it is possible. Yes both markets are multi-ethnic, but the percentages are very different, and Latinos in NYC are from different places than most of those in LA so I don't see a real similarity.

As for Charlie, he should be happy already as he gets away with more than any of the jocks outside of morning drive. Personally I think Tuna uses too much audio as it is. He sounds great, but I want to hear him do a talk up without a wild track here and there.

Fair enough, but the person looking for Oldies is going to want pretty similar material. I don't know if the Latinos in NY are into Oldies, but in LA the love for Oldies on the Eastside goes way back.

Tuna is the only jock who has any character (or is allowed to) on the air, sadly. The only other jock they've let do that recently was Huggy Boy. Everyone else is reading off liner cards. Ya, I know that's the "Drake" thing, but it ain't 1966. Shotgun Kelly in particular is all style, no content, though I'm sure he could improvise if allowed.

 

[scooty430]

It's hard to really know, though, why KRTH's PPM ratings are down (in the desired demos - they aren't really down overall.) Is it because the 80s music is a turn-off? Are people bored by KRTH now that the new 70s songs are starting to be burned out? Is it just a random dip caused by one or two PPM people on vacation or forgetting to wear meters?

Every significant station in a rated market in the US targets some portion of the spectrum betwen 18 and 54, and increasingly, 18 to 48. So KRTH's target is within the upper border of 55, as nothing over that is salable.

Specifically, KRTH is targeted at 35-54, and, obviously, more at 45-54.

KRTH's 25-54 numbers are down in the target and salable demo of 25-54, from a peak of 3rd to somewhere around 12th. This decline has seemingly been a progression downwards over a 9 month period, so there is no correlation with summer or any sample related issue. The station has a 25-54 problem... and, as I mentioned the issues appear to be a bad male-female balance and older songs that apparently are not being well received by the target demo.

David - I also think some of the 80's music they've put in (Chaka Khan, Naked Eyes, The Motels, and Culture Club) don't play well with the older music. It creates tune out. But not only did they add more 80's, they added more pre-65 - which gives you a wide, unfocused product.

Um, no. They didn't add more pre-65. (Usually referred to as pre-64, if you want to be technical. Beatles are the typical cut-off band.)

They added more and they dramatically increased the weekly spins... in some cases by a factor of 4 or 5 times as many.

And I don't care what your "History of Rock and Roll" cutoff is. I am using markers that determine the demographic appeal of a station, and it is pretty clear that KRTH has severe 25-54 issues because they are not watching those markers.

Um, I posted a playlist clearly showing this isn't true. Do you want me to do it again? Should I post an entire day? Was two hours not enough?

 

[davideduardo]

I don't believe too many 55+ would be attracted to the complexities of today's video games on X-Box or Wi..etc..

They may not be playing the latest version of Grand Theft Auto or any of the online multiplayer games, but there is certainly a lot of interest in the sports games, whether they be auto racing, golf, NFL or FIFA soccer... as well as in strategy games. [/quote]

[/quote]But getting back to music, why do you think CBS-FM would play the top 101 Beatles songs all day long on a Tuesday, but not KRTH? I would believe Angelinos in the 25-54 would like hearing the Beatles as a commemoration, just like any 25-54 in any other area, such as NYC. Their music is so important, it can't be ignored.
[/quote]

KRTH is very female leaning, and WCBS-FM is very male. Also, as mentioned, KRTH has Jack as a powerful competitor (Jack beats KRTH by a mile in 25-54) while CBS-FM has no such competitor. And, just maybe, it's a difference in PD attitudes.

KRTH, though, played a huge amount of Beathles last week... including many titles not in normal play.

I'm rather surprised at CBS-FM doing it... at least non-stop. NY has a huge over-45 English dominant Puerto Rican community, and the Beatles were not all that popular among Puerto Ricans in NYC or on the Island... in fact, they were not that enormously popular in all Latin America. So, to me the risk of blowing off a big audience segment in NY seems rather big. Again, it may have to do with the competetive factor.

 

[scooty430]

The purchasers of Beatles sets will be principally those who live the Beatles era.... which extended well into the 70's.

And nearly ever 50+ I know loves video games... these are the folks who played pacman in the late 70's and early 80's when they were in their 20's and 30's. We had Atari's and Commodores and Apple I's and Apple IIs and built S-100 bus machines.

I don't believe too many 55+ would be attracted to the complexities of today's video games on X-Box or Wi..etc..
They might however, play the simpler games, like Pac-Man, Centipede, Galaga..etc.. By the way Pac-Man was released in late 1980 as a coin-op in the USA. Those Atari 2600's / 400's / Commodore 64's were sure fun in their day.

But getting back to music, why do you think CBS-FM would play the top 101 Beatles songs all day long on a Tuesday, but not KRTH? I would believe Angelinos in the 25-54 would like hearing the Beatles as a commemoration, just like any 25-54 in any other area, such as NYC. Their music is so important, it can't be ignored.

Very true. There was, according to Chris on the KLOS Beatles show today, a huge line at the crack of dawn at the West LA Best Buy waiting to pick up the Beatles material. Amoeba Records sold out of their allotment. Everybody is talking about it. Yet somehow because "we're a different market" we could not have a celebration/promotion like CBS-FM did? Instead it was just another boring normal day on the air.

I'm sure there will be some ridiculous argument that the Beatles were never big in LA, or nobody who lives here knows about them like in NY.

I almost feel like I could argue that the sky is blue, and David would have some reason that it isn't.

 

[davideduardo]

Um, I posted a playlist clearly showing this isn't true. Do you want me to do it again? Should I post an entire day? Was two hours not enough?

Two hours is not a playlist, it is a log of two hours. Just two hours. A playlist is a listing of all songs played, or, in some peoples mind, in regular play. A two hour log is meaningless.

I went back over two MediaBase 12-week play reports (last 12 weeks and prior 12 weeks) and exported to Excel and left only the pre-1966 songs. The 12 week reports show plays by week by song for each week.

The play on many of those songs has gone form 2 to 3 a week to 10 to 11, and there are plenty of titles that were not in play when the station was top 5 in 25-54.

 

[davideduardo]

Fair enough, but the person looking for Oldies is going to want pretty similar material. I don't know if the Latinos in NY are into Oldies, but in LA the love for Oldies on the Eastside goes way back.

And, as I said, compared to the total population of LA, that group is not particularly significant.

And NY Hispanics over 40 or 45 are very different in oldies tastes than LA Hispanics. There is no cultural similarity at all, unless you think a Puerto Rican has anything in common musically with a Mexican...

 

[davideduardo]

Very true. There was, according to Chris on the KLOS Beatles show today, a huge line at the crack of dawn at the West LA Best Buy waiting to pick up the Beatles material. Amoeba Records sold out of their allotment. Everybody is talking about it.

What's that, a couple of hundred people? KRTH has a cume of over 2 million.

I almost feel like I could argue that the sky is blue, and David would have some reason that it isn't.

In LA, it's been gray or purple-gray for the last several weeks. See?

 

[oldies76]

In LA, it's been gray or purple-gray for the last several weeks. See?

Fires near LA don't count since it's temporary. The air near the surface isn't the sky either. High above the smog, it is blue.

This is getting kind of rediculous. Back to school.

 

[oldies76]

KRTH is very female leaning, and WCBS-FM is very male.

If KRTH was male leaning, what differences would you hear? A larger playlist, more neutrals, more specials?

 

[scooty430]

You'd hear more Beatles. Women hate the Beatles, especially the "cute one," Paul.

 

[scooty430]

Quote from: scooty430 on Today at 04:29:37 pm
If you are, by using the term "sock puppet," implying that me and Oldies 76 are the same guy, we aren't.

DE Replied: And frogs dance flamenco.


Who deleted my post?

So you DO think Oldies76 and I are the same guy? That is really hilarious, and I'll say it again...it fits in with your other delusions.

 

[davideduardo]

In LA, it's been gray or purple-gray for the last several weeks. See?

Fires near LA don't count since it's temporary. The air near the surface isn't the sky either. High above the smog, it is blue.

This is getting kind of rediculous. Back to school.

You don't get "tongue in cheek" any too well. Is watching "House" a challenge?

In any case, most of us are not angels, even though we live in the city of Our Lady Queen of Angels... so we don't know what color the sky is above our smoke and pollution layer that we live with from about May through September.

 

[oldies76]

So you DO think Oldies76 and I are the same guy?

Maybe we'll just start our own classic hits station and show D.E. how a station should sound and be programmed...and watch those ratings soar into that "blue" sky of his.

 

[calguy]

Okay, so let me get this straight. You want a bigger on-air library with less repetition, better more theatrical promotions, and jocks that all get to talk a while and be morning personalities in their dayparts? Is that about it?

Not gonna happen. Not as long as Kaye is the PD. He's a format PD. He practically scripted KOST and implemented many of the same formatics at KBIG and to a lesser degree KRTH. He lets Charlie do more because Tuna is an LA star. Shotgun Tom is a great jock, but even when he did mornings at B100 he wasn't the type of jock that Tuna is. SG Tom was a boss jock at KGB and a super high energy (dare I say) screamer at KCBQ. He's a little bit of all that now, but really hasn't changed that much over the years. If you pull the restraints off of Jim Carson you'll still get pretty much what you get now. A super smooth always prepared always on top of today's lifestyle kind of jock and that's great. I don't think the rest of the staff outside of Gary Bryan are the types to really give you the type of show that Tuna does, so it's better to do what they're doing now. Promotions were mentioned but that's more of a function of your Promotions Director. Apparently WCBS-FM has a better one.

We could debate all of this until this thread has a hundred pages but it won't change a thing.

So here's what I know. KRTH is doing well in the ARB/PPM. They play a lot more songs than they did in 2005 and a better variety to boot. They have a relatively strong line-up, decent promotions and are about as well programmed as most any station can be. Would you trade all of this for the KRTH of the early 2000's? I think not. As I said before, listen to CBS-FM's stream and enjoy it because before the internet you couldn't do that. Now you can and when they mass produce internet radios you can even do it in your car. I know you'll all keep this up, but it's futile...

 

[scooty430]

A two hour log is meaningless.

Well, that's your opinion. But for a guy who believes in sampling a small part of the population to get a big picture, I'm surprised to hear you say that.

A two hour "log" will very quickly reveal the ratio of songs the station is typically playing. And what the two hour log I posted showed was:

NO PRE-1965 ADDITIONS
FOUR 1980s ADDITIONS

 

[scooty430]

Okay, so let me get this straight. You want a bigger on-air library with less repetition, better more theatrical promotions, and jocks that all get to talk a while and be morning personalities in their dayparts? Is that about it?

Not gonna happen. Not as long as Kaye is the PD. He's a format PD. He practically scripted KOST and implemented many of the same formatics at KBIG and to a lesser degree KRTH. He lets Charlie do more because Tuna is an LA star. Shotgun Tom is a great jock, but even when he did mornings at B100 he wasn't the type of jock that Tuna is. SG Tom was a boss jock at KGB and a super high energy (dare I say) screamer at KCBQ. He's a little bit of all that now, but really hasn't changed that much over the years. If you pull the restraints off of Jim Carson you'll still get pretty much what you get now. A super smooth always prepared always on top of today's lifestyle kind of jock and that's great. I don't think the rest of the staff outside of Gary Bryan are the types to really give you the type of show that Tuna does, so it's better to do what they're doing now. Promotions were mentioned but that's more of a function of your Promotions Director. Apparently WCBS-FM has a better one.

We could debate all of this until this thread has a hundred pages but it won't change a thing.

So here's what I know. KRTH is doing well in the ARB/PPM. They play a lot more songs than they did in 2005 and a better variety to boot. They have a relatively strong line-up, decent promotions and are about as well programmed as most any station can be. Would you trade all of this for the KRTH of the early 2000's? I think not. As I said before, listen to CBS-FM's stream and enjoy it because before the internet you couldn't do that. Now you can and when they mass produce internet radios you can even do it in your car. I know you'll all keep this up, but it's futile...

I agree with every single point you're making here. Dead on. In particular, I agree that KRTH of 2000 was torture, and what we have now is better in so many ways.

Except....(always has to be an except, right...) KRTH HAS, in the last two years, toyed with WCBS style programming. They did a Top 1001 that covered 50s to 80s, complete with "Good Timing," "Chantilly Lace," and "Don't Be Cruel." They did a week long A to Z, then a Z to A with REALLY deep cuts, some I'd never heard before, anywhere.

The creative programming stopped for awhile, but then all of August they did Lost Hits Weekends. So my point is that even conservative Jhani Kaye is open to new approaches. So it's not a lost cause to have a great oldies station here; heck we SHOULD have one: this is the music capital of the country.

 

[davideduardo]

So here's what I know. KRTH is doing well in the ARB/PPM.

Not really... since late last year, they have fallen from well inside the top 5 in 25-54 to well outside the top 10... a very costly loss that is not just one book, but a general trending over 8 or 9 books.

Something is obviously wrong. Too broad, too female, and too many increased plays on out of demo songs.

 

[oldies76]

So here's what I know. KRTH is doing well in the ARB/PPM. They play a lot more songs than they did in 2005 and a better variety to boot. They have a relatively strong line-up, decent promotions and are about as well programmed as most any station can be. Would you trade all of this for the KRTH of the early 2000's? I think not. As I said before, listen to CBS-FM's stream and enjoy it because before the internet you couldn't do that. Now you can and when they mass produce internet radios you can even do it in your car.

I agree, they are much better than the early 00's or even the 90's. They have improved "in some ways", no doubt.